B2301 FEL and 3PH Problems

[TheOldHokie]

OK so I finally had a chance to check this out. I asked about simply unscrewing the hydraulic hose from the rod end at the fitting because in doing so, it leaves the other end (where the hose attaches to the swift tach fitting) open-ended. I was thinking it being open would suck air in when I tried the loader.

I disconnected the line and put it in a bucket. Started the tractor and raised the bucket which went up smoothly appearing as intended. When it got up high above the tractor hydraulic fluid sprayed everywhere like a geyser from the open swift tach fitting all over me and tractor, LOL. Much to my son's amusement. So I then attached a regular hose with hose clamp from the open end and put both in a bucket and tried again. Loader goes up. So yes, appears there is blockage either in the fitting or after? After the fitting it goes to hard lines to valve. It does sound to me like hydraulics are laboring like there is a blockage.

The swift tach fitting seems oddly placed to me. The fitting has a lock tab that pulls out then the there is an arm that opens releasing the fitting (see my pic above). When I lift the release arm, it can't open all the way without hitting the loader which prevents the fitting from releasing. I assume it only is able to be opened if the tractor is lifted by the bucket during the process for removal? @jkrubi12 @GrizBota is this the same on your tractor?

@TheOldHokie any thoughts on next step?

BTW - if you got a spray from the disconnected end on the coupler the coupler is not blocking things.

Dan

 

[boulderz]

@TheOldHokie my wrench is pointing to where removed.

This image shows how the release handle runs into the loader and doesn't allow fitting to release (handle is as far forward as it will go here). Maybe the handle itself is bent? Pretty heavy steel, not sure.

 

[boulderz]

I have a couple images that I have easy access to at the moment as to how the quick connect hydraulic gang connection for the FEL mounts on my B2601. I can’t attach them as they are too large, 4.5 MB. I don’t recall it being restricted or hitting anything relative to preventing the connection from being pulled off when the cam lock is undone.

After watching a video on removal, looks like the swift tach handle can only be opened after the loader is detached and tractor is backed away from it a bit...

 

[TheOldHokie]

After watching a video on removal, looks like the swift tach handle can only be opened after the loader is detached and tractor is backed away from it a bit...

Normally you need loader hydraulics to mount/dismount the loader.

Dan

 

[boulderz]

BTW - if you got a spray from the disconnected end on the coupler the coupler is not blocking things.

Dan

I'll have to try the test again, but I'm pretty sure it was pushing fluid back through the coupler even before the loader got to top and the pressure relief opened (if it did).

 

[Vigo]

Sounds like you've geographically located the issue to a tiny area.. the coupler block thingy! It's just a short matter of time now.

I'm not familiar with that coupler block to know how the actual check valves are seated into it (could be not fully seated?) or if they're simply made into it. Basically, does it need an adjustment, or a repair. Semantic, i guess. But there are some styles of quick disconnects where the part that pushes on the other side to open the check valves (and allow flow once the connectors are coupled) can become bent/misaligned, or break off and go missing. So just because two couplers fully engage to each other externally doesn't mean the thing is happening on the inside that actually allows flow to go through it. I think some careful staring and thinking at both mating sides of that coupler block will probably get you the rest of the way there on this one.

 

[TheOldHokie]

I'll have to try the test again, but I'm pretty sure it was pushing fluid back through the coupler even before the loader got to top and the pressure relief opened (if it did).

I can gaurantee the pressure relief opens when the cylinders hit end of stroke and you still have the valve shifted. During lift that port is probably connected to power beyond so there could be some bypass flow if the lift spool is not fully shifted. In any event put a cap on it before you repeat rhe test.

Dan

 

[TheOldHokie]

Sounds like you've geographically located the issue to a tiny area.. the coupler block thingy! It's just a short matter of time now.

I'm not familiar with that coupler block to know how the actual check valves are seated into it (could be not fully seated?) or if they're simply made into it. Basically, does it need an adjustment, or a repair. Semantic, i guess. But there are some styles of quick disconnects where the part that pushes on the other side to open the check valves (and allow flow once the connectors are coupled) can become bent/misaligned, or break off and go missing. So just because two couplers fully engage to each other externally doesn't mean the thing is happening on the inside that actually allows flow to go through it. I think some careful staring and thinking at both mating sides of that coupler block will probably get you the rest of the way there on this one.

The backflow that spewed all over him during the hose off test pretty much says the coupler is connected and working just fine.

Dan

 

[boulderz]

The backflow that spewed all over him during the hose off test pretty much says the coupler is connected and working just fine.

Dan

Since it is spewing oil at the coupler, could more areas be eliminated as being blocked beyond the coupling?

 

[TheOldHokie]

Since it is spewing oil at the coupler, could more areas be eliminated as being blocked beyond the coupling?

Thats a very goodcquestion and one I have been mulling over.

Assuming that valve behaves like other Kubota valves that port gets connected to power beyond during lift. My earler analysis about thecrelief was based on it being connected to tank but thst is probably wrong.

So during lift pump flow is getting metered between lift cylinder and power beyond. That could result in an outflow from the open port consistent with the oobserved result. Stinkin thinkin on my part.

BUT a down stream blockage in the power beyond circuit would make that flow stronger AND explain the failure of the loader to lift when the hose is connected.i am beginning to think thst is a very real possibility. Withva luttle more tsrgeted testing we will know for sure.

Dan

 

[jkrubi12]

As far as the swift-tach hydraulic connection, that is the last item to be disconnected when removing the loader assembly; at that point the part of the loader that is blocking the swift-tach lever is out of the way of the hydraulic connector, allowing it's complete unfettered removal. It may be worthwhile to find a YouTube video showing loader removal which would likely explain it better.

 

[GrizBota]

@TheOldHokie my wrench is pointing to where removed.

View attachment 102580


This image shows how the release handle runs into the loader and doesn't allow fitting to release (handle is as far forward as it will go here). Maybe the handle itself is bent? Pretty heavy steel, not sure.

View attachment 102581
View attachment 102582

Regarding the cam lock handle, yours is a bit bent, mine is a perfect 90 bend. But I do agree, you have to back away from the loader just a bit to fully disengage the cam lock and remove the gang plug.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Regarding the cam lock handle, yours is a bit bent, mine is a perfect 90 bend. But I do agree, you have to back away from the loader just a bit to fully disengage the cam lock and remove the gang plug.

Thanks. I wasn't thinking real clearly when I told you to disconnect there. I failed to account for the fact that it also opens the workport to open air. Get a cap for the coupler side before ttying again.

In truth I think we already know the coupler is passing flow and is not blocking the exhaust flow from the cylinders. Since that port is dumping into the power beyond circuit it suggests somethin in the PB circuit is blocking flow.....

Dan

 

[lugbolt]

will that tractor run the backhoe and 3ph / MMM at the same time?

Power beyond circuit is being restricted somehow as Dan says. almost has to be. Try moving the 3ph lever downward and see if the loader acts normally.

 

[boulderz]

will that tractor run the backhoe and 3ph / MMM at the same time?

Power beyond circuit is being restricted somehow as Dan says. almost has to be. Try moving the 3ph lever downward and see if the loader acts normally.

Yes, mmm supposed to be able to be used w backhoe on, 3PH should lift mower.

 

[boulderz]

Thanks. I wasn't thinking real clearly when I told you to disconnect there. I failed to account for the fact that it also opens the workport to open air. Get a cap for the coupler side before ttying again.

In truth I think we already know the coupler is passing flow and is not blocking the exhaust flow from the cylinders. Since that port is dumping into the power beyond circuit it suggests somethin in the PB circuit is blocking flow.....

Dan

@TheOldHokie thanks for all your feedback so far, I appreciate your time. I've been short on time but have a little update and would love to get your thoughts.

I tried disconnecting the backhoe and plumbing the tractor as if the backhoe was removed (power beyond hose (tractor, yellow) to Outlet pipe (tractor, red)). In doing so, I can now get the loader to raise slowly by pulling back but not all the way...if I pull back fully on the stick it stops dead. I can also get it to lower if I both push both forward and right which simultaneously lowers and dumps the bucket..hopefully that gives some clues?

Thanks,
Mike

 

[TheOldHokie]

@TheOldHokie thanks for all your feedback so far, I appreciate your time. I've been short on time but have a little update and would love to get your thoughts.

I tried disconnecting the backhoe and plumbing the tractor as if the backhoe was removed (power beyond hose (tractor, yellow) to Outlet pipe (tractor, red)). In doing so, I can now get the loader to raise slowly by pulling back but not all the way...if I pull back fully on the stick it stops dead. I can also get it to lower if I both push both forward and right which simultaneously lowers and dumps the bucket..hopefully that gives some clues?

Thanks,
Mike

Removing the hoe is fine but not informative. You still need to test the loader lift cylinder circuit as I described.

Lowe the loader to the ground. Disconnect the lift cylinder rod end hose at the quick coupler. Cap the coupler and stick tje end of a hose in a bucket. Start the trsctor and try to raise the loader. That will tell us if the lift circuit is working up to the quick coupler.

Dan

 

[boulderz]

Removing the hoe is fine but not informative. You still need to test the loader lift cylinder circuit as I described.

Lowe the loader to the ground. Disconnect the lift cylinder rod end hose at the quick coupler. Cap the coupler and stick tje end of a hose in a bucket. Start the trsctor and try to raise the loader. That will tell us if the lift circuit is working up to the quick coupler.

Dan

ok just picked up the fittings, will report back, thanks!

 

[boulderz]

ok just picked up the fittings, will report back, thanks!

OK, tested with port blocked off and hose in bucket. Loader goes up fine but will not drop unless bucket is also dumped at same time or put in float..

 

[boulderz]

Removing the hoe is fine but not informative. You still need to test the loader lift cylinder circuit as I described.

Lowe the loader to the ground. Disconnect the lift cylinder rod end hose at the quick coupler. Cap the coupler and stick tje end of a hose in a bucket. Start the trsctor and try to raise the loader. That will tell us if the lift circuit is working up to the quick coupler.

Dan

OK, tested with port blocked off and hose in bucket. Loader goes up fine but will not drop unless bucket is also dumped at same time or put in float..