Another Am I getting Shafted Question

Swamp

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Equipment
L4701DT with NH92 backhoe
Nov 22, 2022
15
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3
Wisconsin
I have been waiting for information on an L4701 with a 765 loader, Bh92 w/hydraulic thumb that I ordered in December of 2021. I put cash down, was approved for financing, given a monthly payment schedule and a signed agreement for purchasing the tractor. There is no small print that says anything about price increases. The dealer now wants to charge me almost $9,000 more for the unit. Any input?
 

Matt Ellerbee

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MX6000
Jun 27, 2019
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Canton, Georgia
I have been waiting for information on an L4701 with a 765 loader, Bh92 w/hydraulic thumb that I ordered in December of 2021. I put cash down, was approved for financing, given a monthly payment schedule and a signed agreement for purchasing the tractor. There is no small print that says anything about price increases. The dealer now wants to charge me almost $9,000 more for the unit. Any input?
Since you have a signed agreement, make dealer stick to it, or get your cash back and find another dealer.
 
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GreensvilleJay

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BX23-S
Apr 2, 2019
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I agree the contract IS the contract you and they SIGNED.....BOTH partys(side) have to abide by whatever is WRITTEN.
NEITHER party can modify it without the WRITTEN consent of the other.....

this is basic contract law 101.....
watch any number of Judge Judy shows.... she'll draw a rectangle in the air showing the 'four corners of the contract'....while explaining this law..

if they're not 'happy', tell them to either read 'contractlaw101' or book a flight to Hollywood and see Judge Judy.

sadly YOU didn't put in a 'delivery date' in the contract. THAT would have been to your advanatge.
 
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MapleLeafFarmer

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Lots incl. B and L kubotas
Dec 2, 2019
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I agree the contract IS the contract you and they SIGNED.....BOTH partys(side) have to abide by whatever is WRITTEN.
NEITHER party can modify it without the WRITTEN consent of the other.....

this is basic contract law 101.....
watch any number of Judge Judy shows.... she'll draw a rectangle in the air showing the 'four corners of the contract'....while explaining this law..

if they're not 'happy', tell them to either read 'contractlaw101' or book a flight to Hollywood and see Judge Judy.

sadly YOU didn't put in a 'delivery date' in the contract. THAT would have been to your advanatge.

but the OP says he has an agreement not a contract.... would need to see all the details.... lots of this same story all over the news about car and truck dealers here in Canada doing the same.

Just now on the news Kia buyers in Edmonton Alberta apparently signed agreements to take ownership when unit arrives but final pricing details subject to "market price adjustment" at time of delivery based on market conditions.

I think its a terrible practice but not strictly illegal. Here on the news they say the buyer can back out of the agreement / obligation and forfeit their down payment because it wasn't a "contract"

I think shady beyond belief but devils in detail comes to mind here.

So if like this I think very shady/sucks but not illegal.
 

jimh406

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Kubota L2501 with R4 tires
Jan 29, 2021
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It seems to me it is a contract whether it says "contract" or not. I'm sure the financing was probably a contract. Putting this another way, what do you think the dealer would do if OP refused to accept the tractor? Note: I'm not a lawyer.

I'd go look to see what is available on the market before I spoke to the dealer again. You may find you have a better option for the same price or less.

Based on what has been discussed here and on YouTube. I don't think that tractor is worth $9K more this year compared to last.

Finally, if you were buying the tractor because you liked the dealer, I guess that's changed or would for me.
 

Swamp

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L4701DT with NH92 backhoe
Nov 22, 2022
15
10
3
Wisconsin
Thanks for the quick input. I live in a pretty rural area and I actually ended up using a dealer 2 hours away because the closer dealer wouldn't order the tractor even with a down payment. They wanted the HST they had on the lot gone and told me as much. The dealer I went through is one that two others I know purchased equipment from and they were very satisfied with the service. Everybody here keeps HST's on the lot and pretty much NO DT's. I am getting a hoe and I spend a lot of time in the woods, using a brush hog and a grading a very long camp road as in miles. I just don't want a hydro tractor. To the point. Everybody's prices are now up even if I were to try and cheap out and go to LS. So just going to another dealer isn't a great option. Mind you when I ordered this tractor there was only one DT in the state and that dealer wasn't letting go of it. Another reason I went orange because I wanted the extra foot of digging depth on the hoe. The problem is multi fold. I never received any notice of any price increase. I was never even informed that my tractor was being built, even though I reached out to the dealer once each month for an update. Suddenly today I get a call that says the tractor is in and they have all of the other stuff in stock. So I know for a fact that the hoe they are putting on is a 2020 model so all of the hoses and seals are already 2 or 3 years old. There was a mad rush for me to get cash up to the dealer because literally they told me the next day the computers would be locked down for the new year price increase. The salesman even mentioned how fortunate I was to get there and get the price I got before it went up. They gave me the distinct impression that I was going to pay the price as stated on all of my paperwork and that my payments would be as they are stated on my contract. Again I appreciate the time being taken to leave comments. As most who are trying to buy their first and last new tractor will understand this is absolutely infuriating.
 
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XSpecBx

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B2601, Artillian Pallet Forks, Woodmaxx MX-8600, LP BB1248
Apr 3, 2022
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49
18
Ledyard, CT
Thanks for the quick input. I live in a pretty rural area and I actually ended up using a dealer 2 hours away because the closer dealer wouldn't order the tractor even with a down payment. They wanted the HST they had on the lot gone and told me as much. The dealer I went through is one that two others I know purchased equipment from and they were very satisfied with the service. Everybody here keeps HST's on the lot and pretty much NO DT's. I am getting a hoe and I spend a lot of time in the woods, using a brush hog and a grading a very long camp road as in miles. I just don't want a hydro tractor. To the point. Everybody's prices are now up even if I were to try and cheap out and go to LS. So just going to another dealer isn't a great option. Mind you when I ordered this tractor there was only one DT in the state and that dealer wasn't letting go of it. Another reason I went orange because I wanted the extra foot of digging depth on the hoe. The problem is multi fold. I never received any notice of any price increase. I was never even informed that my tractor was being built, even though I reached out to the dealer once each month for an update. Suddenly today I get a call that says the tractor is in and they have all of the other stuff in stock. So I know for a fact that the hoe they are putting on is a 2020 model so all of the hoses and seals are already 2 or 3 years old. There was a mad rush for me to get cash up to the dealer because literally they told me the next day the computers would be locked down for the new year price increase. The salesman even mentioned how fortunate I was to get there and get the price I got before it went up. They gave me the distinct impression that I was going to pay the price as stated on all of my paperwork and that my payments would be as they are stated on my contract. Again I appreciate the time being taken to leave comments. As most who are trying to buy their first and last new tractor will understand this is absolutely infuriating.
Seems pretty slimy to have gone through the financing process, put cash down and then change the price. Seems like you would need to reapply for financing at that point because what if you’re not approved for the higher amount?

I know when I bought my B2601 in December 2021, I went to two dealers near me. Dealer A had one on the lot in a crate and the Dealer B would get me on a list for the spring 2020. Dealer A was $1k more expensive, but Dealer B gave me a quote and stated the price would be adjusted based on the upcoming price increase. I had bought from Dealer B before and they didn’t have me do any paperwork or put a down a downpayment until the machine was in, so I would have expected the same with this purchase as well.

Given that you applied for financing for a certain amount and put down cash, I would expect them to honor that price. I would talk with someone above the salesperson, and if they won’t work with you, I would consult with a lawyer to understand what your rights are. You can also contact your states consumer protection bureau and see what advice they have.
 

DustyRusty

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BX23S
Nov 8, 2015
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I would also contact Kubota Corporation and see what they have to say. I know of someone that ordered a tractor just before Covid hit, and it was delivered about 2 months ago, and the dealer upheld the original agreement, even though no deposit was made. I also believe that Kubota has held the pricing of the tractors that were ordered and is charging the dealers the original order pricing upon delivery. It is my belief that the dealer is trying to take advantage of you. You have a contract, and I would go into the dealership and tell them that you are ready to finalize the deal at the original price as quoted on the contract and the financing agreements. You can also contact Kubota Credit Corporation and let them know what is happening. It might be the owner/upper management that is doing this, or it could be the salesman doing this without the knowledge of the owner of the dealership. I would start by speaking to the owner of the dealership, and before I went it, I would be consulting with an attorney and the consumer protection agency and see what they can give you for advice.
 
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fried1765

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Kubota L48 TLB, Ford 1920 FEL, Ford 8N, SCAG Liberty Z, Gravely Pro.
Nov 14, 2019
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Eastham, Ma
Mu
I have been waiting for information on an L4701 with a 765 loader, Bh92 w/hydraulic thumb that I ordered in December of 2021. I put cash down, was approved for financing, given a monthly payment schedule and a signed agreement for purchasing the tractor. There is no small print that says anything about price increases. The dealer now wants to charge me almost $9,000 more for the unit. Any input?
Must be a Minnesota dealer!
Certainly, no Wisconsin dealer would do such a dastardly :poop: thing!
 
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The Evil Twin

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L2501
Jul 19, 2022
531
375
63
Virginia
The ultimate question is what piece of paper do you have in hand? If it has a price, a signature and the dealer letterhead you are golden. F em if they want to pull a fast one.
 
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notaz3

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Mar 16, 2021
50
43
18
ID
Took 13 months from the time I ordered until my tractor arrived. Dealer kept original price agreement, even though there had been a price increase.
 

NCL4701

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Equipment
L4701, WC68 chipper, grapple, BB1572 box scrape, Howes 500, 16kW IMD gen, WG24
Apr 27, 2020
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Central Piedmont, NC
I have been waiting for information on an L4701 with a 765 loader, Bh92 w/hydraulic thumb that I ordered in December of 2021. I put cash down, was approved for financing, given a monthly payment schedule and a signed agreement for purchasing the tractor. There is no small print that says anything about price increases. The dealer now wants to charge me almost $9,000 more for the unit. Any input?
For that amount of money, pack up every scrap of paperwork on the deal, every text, every email; absolutely everything you have in writing the deal. Organize it in a clear manner in chronological order (when you pay people by the hour, don’t waste their time). Take it all to a local attorney that deals with business law (almost anyone that passed the bar in your state could handle this) and pay them $500 to $750 to spend a couple hours reviewing it to give you a reliable answer based on the admissible evidence you have and your state’s laws.

Unless you don’t mind doing and paying whatever the dealer wants, you really need a local attorney to review and explain to you what your (and the dealer’s) enforceable rights and duties are in this deal.

At this point in the transaction, I’d want to be pretty confident how all this would sort out in a courtroom before I started making demands or acquiescing to the dealers demands. Doesn’t mean the transaction has to become confrontational, but you need to know where you really stand and you need local counsel to tell you that with certainty.
 
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SDT

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multiple and various
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I have been waiting for information on an L4701 with a 765 loader, Bh92 w/hydraulic thumb that I ordered in December of 2021. I put cash down, was approved for financing, given a monthly payment schedule and a signed agreement for purchasing the tractor. There is no small print that says anything about price increases. The dealer now wants to charge me almost $9,000 more for the unit. Any input?
Dealer can and will do what he wants to do.

You MAY be able to enforce your agreement/contract but you will almost certainly need a decent attorney to do so.

Be advised that contracts have many defenses and all must have a date certain. Without such date a court will enforce an otherwise valid contract only for a "reasonable time". Courts usually find such reasonable time to be about 180 days.
 

Swamp

New member

Equipment
L4701DT with NH92 backhoe
Nov 22, 2022
15
10
3
Wisconsin
Thanks again for all of the input. As of today, the plan is to send all of the signed paperwork along with my explanation of what it means to me based on my knowledge and what was explained to me by the dealer. I will also be giving them a timeline as far as a response. If that fails, I will be contacting Kubota directly. Simultaneously I will be searching for a business attorney. Finding one will be easy as my brother has contacts with them on a daily basis and I trust his opinion. To be honest in my mind it is as much about integrity as it is the $8k. I can most definitely use the financing as a way out of it and get my deposit back, but that doesn't put a loader/hoe tractor in my shed in the end and that's what I've been waiting for almost an entire year.
 

PaulL

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B2601
Jul 17, 2017
1,403
625
113
NZ
I'd start by working through with the dealer, in person, and based on whatever evidence you have that says fixed price. Get them to explain exactly why they believe the contract lets them increase the price. I find this often forces the issue. When you say "here's my contract, it says fixed price. Please show me the clause that you believe allows you to vary the price", they have to actually think about it, and it puts the onus on them to do the legal work themselves, or pay for a lawyer to do it. So it's costing you nothing, and usually leads to them deciding there actually isn't a clause that permits it.

If they point to something that does actually give them that right, then you're screwed. You then need to decide whether you want to go to another dealer (probably at the same price), or just pay up.

If they point to something that doesn't really give them that right, then you need to decide whether you want to pay a lawyer to argue that with them.
 
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Mark_BX25D

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Bx25D
Jul 19, 2020
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but the OP says he has an agreement not a contract....

Every person should take a basic class in contract law. Knowing the fundamental principles would be helpful to every adult that engages in any kind of business activity.

Here's one of those fundamentals: An agreement IS a contract. A "contract" is not a document, and it's not some special class or kind of agreement.

An agreement between two competent parties for any lawful purpose IS a contract.

If it is in writing, so much the better. But.... the devil is always in the details.

Time to lawyer up. You can get an opinion on the contract language for a few hundred bucks. You have 9 grand at stake. Do the math.
 
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PaulL

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B2601
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I find I can usually read a contract and understand it. I'd get a lawyer when you need one, not before. But it depends how comfortable you are with what contracts mean.
 
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SDT

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Every person should take a basic class in contract law. Knowing the fundamental principles would be helpful to every adult that engages in any kind of business activity.

Here's one of those fundamentals: An agreement IS a contract. A "contract" is not a document, and it's not some special class or kind of agreement.

An agreement between two competent parties for any lawful purpose IS a contract.

If it is in writing, so much the better. But.... the devil is always in the details.

Time to lawyer up. You can get an opinion on the contract language for a few hundred bucks. You have 9 grand at stake. Do the math.
Bingo.

Even a verbal contract is enforceable but because everyone lies, litigation of such verbal agreements comes down to evidence.

What can one prove when it's a he said/she said.
 
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GreensvilleJay

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BX23-S
Apr 2, 2019
5,639
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Greensville,Ontario,Canada
Yes, verbal contracts are contracts BUT I'm betting there's NO way anyone would verbally AGREE to a $9K increase in the price !!! The fallback is ,if the store said 'yes,you did', is the WRITTEN contract.

Also, since this is financed, THAT paperwork must have a LOT of 'details' ( like purchase price....). It'd be interesting to know if the FINANCE company agreed to the $9K increase !! While 9k ain't a lot of coins these days,,they might not.... Also as financing is involved, there's a 3rd party who has a HUGE stake in the deal....

Honestly have a 'stranger' read the 'sales agreement' or 'contract'..see if they see anything about the 'price'.
Heck, you could scan and post here ( blackout 'redact' ,any personal stuff,even price.
Hopefully ,back of the contract doesn't have a 'section 15b...price adjustment...blaa,blaa,blaa.......'
 

DustyRusty

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BX23S
Nov 8, 2015
2,723
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In paragraphs 1, 2, & 3 they sell it to you at a specified price.

In paragraphs 4, 5, & 6 they set all the specifications,

and in Paragraphs 7 through 35, they tell you all the exceptions to paragraphs 1 through 6, and on the dotted line, you agree to all of the above.

That is what the shady tractors have for a contract. The honest ones have an easy-to-read one page that spells out all the details and they don't try to jack up the price when the tractor finally arrives from Kubota. I'll bet that their dealership agreement with Kubota has some very specific verbiage on how they are to behave as a dealership, and can be revoked if they don't abide by those guidelines in their dealings with the public. I know that all of the automobile dealerships have it in their dealership agreements. That is why when something shady is pulled by an automobile dealership and you complain to the manufacturer, the manufacturer gets involved to sort it out. This is why I suggest that you contact Kubota, and also the financial institution that the financing is going to be written through.