Another Am I getting Shafted Question

Mark_BX25D

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Bx25D
Jul 19, 2020
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This is why I suggest that you contact Kubota, and also the financial institution that the financing is going to be written through.

He needs to read it himself, first. There might be a very plainly spelled out escape clause for the dealer that leaves the OP without a leg to stand on. No sense getting everybody riled up for nothing.

And if he needs to go that way, he's better off having a lawyer confirm he's in the right before he makes that first contact. That way he can say, "I have consulted with my attorney, and my attorney has advised me that you are in breach of contract. Here's what you have to do to stay out of hot water."

All politely, all civilly. No rants, no raves, no insults, no name-calling. And with a lawyer's name behind it.

Velvet glove, iron fist.

That dealer is willing to go to war over 9 grand. Bet on it. Best to have your magazines loaded before you fire the first shot.


Back in the 80s, a local Chevy dealer ran a coupon campaign in the local newspaper. It said it was good for some significant amount toward the purchase of a new Chevy. A woman read the coupon carefully. Then she paid for a consultation with a lawyer. Then she bought some newspapers, took the lawyer with her (paying him for his time), and showed up at the Chevy dealer. When they got the price settled and they asked how she wanted to finance it, she presented enough coupons to pay for the car. They laughed. She lawyered.

She drove home a new Chevy.

Lawyer up.
 
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SDT

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Equipment
multiple and various
Apr 15, 2018
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SE, IN
He needs to read it himself, first. There might be a very plainly spelled out escape clause for the dealer that leaves the OP without a leg to stand on. No sense getting everybody riled up for nothing.

And if he needs to go that way, he's better off having a lawyer confirm he's in the right before he makes that first contact. That way he can say, "I have consulted with my attorney, and my attorney has advised me that you are in breach of contract. Here's what you have to do to stay out of hot water."

All politely, all civilly. No rants, no raves, no insults, no name-calling. And with a lawyer's name behind it.

Velvet glove, iron fist.

That dealer is willing to go to war over 9 grand. Bet on it. Best to have your magazines loaded before you fire the first shot.


Back in the 80s, a local Chevy dealer ran a coupon campaign in the local newspaper. It said it was good for some significant amount toward the purchase of a new Chevy. A woman read the coupon carefully. Then she paid for a consultation with a lawyer. Then she bought some newspapers, took the lawyer with her (paying him for his time), and showed up at the Chevy dealer. When they got the price settled and they asked how she wanted to finance it, she presented enough coupons to pay for the car. They laughed. She lawyered.

She drove home a new Chevy.

Lawyer up.
Be advised that a competent attorney will almost never "confirm" an issue prelitigation. Rather an opinion letter will be prepared. Such opinion letters are not free and most likely the OP's opinion letter will differ significantly from the one prepared by the dealer's attorney.

Attorneys make much more money by litigation and like to stir the pot.

SDT, who is a (retired) patent attorney.
 
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Swamp

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Equipment
L4701DT with NH92 backhoe
Nov 22, 2022
15
10
3
Wisconsin
This disclaimer at the bottom of the finance agreement is what they are stating gives them the right to jack the price up. I say it only gives them the right to cancel that finance program and has nothing to do with the pricing. What say you? Were there on Dec. 31st and signed the finance agreement as instructed in order to secure pricing before the price increases took effect.

1669396479432.png
 

Mak65

Member

Equipment
L2501 HST
Apr 25, 2019
96
50
18
TX
I’m not an attorney.

i broke the disclaimer down sentence by sentence. i assume he’s an approved dealer and can issue a quote (#1). L4701 is Kubota equipment; you did not include any non-Kubota equipment; and, the tractor is it’s own standalone deal so whatever program applied should still apply (#2, #3 & #4). You were approved for financing - even given payment schedule (#5). Program eligibility may change or be withdrawn [program not price] (#6).

If they are hanging hat on “some exceptions apply“ (#7) they shouldn’t have quoted a price (defeats #1) as it would have been an exception before they listed a price.

I see nothing that mentions ability to change price.

I would talk to owner with Kubota corporate on speed dial if he balks.
 

Swamp

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L4701DT with NH92 backhoe
Nov 22, 2022
15
10
3
Wisconsin
I’m not an attorney.

i broke the disclaimer down sentence by sentence. i assume he’s an approved dealer and can issue a quote (#1). L4701 is Kubota equipment; you did not include any non-Kubota equipment; and, the tractor is it’s own standalone deal so whatever program applied should still apply (#2, #3 & #4). You were approved for financing - even given payment schedule (#5). Program eligibility may change or be withdrawn [program not price] (#6).

If they are hanging hat on “some exceptions apply“ (#7) they shouldn’t have quoted a price (defeats #1) as it would have been an exception before they listed a price.

I see nothing that mentions ability to change price.

I would talk to owner with Kubota corporate on speed dial if he balks.
Haven't talked to the owner yet. Sales Manager IS hanging his hat on that disclaimer and a supposed recorded phone call with my wife. Sales person claims to have notified my wife; since she is a cosigner that the program ended and that there would be a price increase. She insists that nothing remotely pertaining to that was part of the conversation. It was simply a call that stated they could not give us a delivery date and did we wish to continue to wait for the tractor? Of course when she relayed that information on to me I said yes. She was even contacted by some person from Kubota a few days later asking if we were sure we wanted to wait.
Swamp
 

Mark_BX25D

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Bx25D
Jul 19, 2020
1,081
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Virginia
Be advised that a competent attorney will almost never "confirm" an issue prelitigation. Rather an opinion letter will be prepared. Such opinion letters are not free
That is exactly what I said.

It's also quite possible that a lawyer will skim the contract, find the escape clause, and advise him that he hasn't got a leg to stand on, it's pay up or cancel.

That would save him a lot of time and aggravation.

Either way, for 9 grand in dispute, to NOT first read the contract (where the escape clasue might well be there in plain sight for anyone to see), then consult a lawyer, would be foolhardy.
 

fried1765

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Kubota L48 TLB, Ford 1920 FEL, Ford 8N, SCAG Liberty Z, Gravely Pro.
Nov 14, 2019
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Eastham, Ma
Haven't talked to the owner yet. Sales Manager IS hanging his hat on that disclaimer and a supposed recorded phone call with my wife. Sales person claims to have notified my wife; since she is a cosigner that the program ended and that there would be a price increase. She insists that nothing remotely pertaining to that was part of the conversation. It was simply a call that stated they could not give us a delivery date and did we wish to continue to wait for the tractor? Of course when she relayed that information on to me I said yes. She was even contacted by some person from Kubota a few days later asking if we were sure we wanted to wait.
Swamp
Phone calls are absolutely awful in so many dealings.
I try to only communicate by E-Mail.
With only E-Mail communication there is no...he said...she said.
Only facts to present if there is a dispute!
 
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Mak65

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L2501 HST
Apr 25, 2019
96
50
18
TX
”…and a supposed recorded phone call with my wife…”

Oh, well, if it’s recorded … (rolling eyes). If you had a nickel for every time someone said that you could buy the dealership and still have change left over.

Have them produce the recording since he claims your wife agreed. To me his claim is that it is ”legally binding”. If so, you should have the right to that legally binding recording. Just like you have a right to a signed document
 

GreensvilleJay

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BX23-S
Apr 2, 2019
5,639
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hmm.. your wife cosigned the loan ? for HER tractor !!!! HER name is ALSO on the 'Bill of Sale' ?

I think of this as TWO separate parts...
1) the actual 'Bill of Sale'... the contract to BUY the tractor ( and parts....)
2) the FINANACING contract, done through Kubota Credit Corporation..HOW the purchase is to be paid.

These are (or should be ) two totally different contracts. Hopefully both husband and wife are on the 'Bill of Sale'. If she's cosigned the 'loan', when you've paid off the 'loan' SHE is entitled to 1/2 of the tractor......

Again, would have to the 'bill of sale' NOT the 'loan' paperwork to see if there's any way the DEALER can change the 'amount owing'. Pretty sure the loan company cannot do that. Loan company is no different than say VISA. If you'd used your VISA to pay 100% of the sale, VISA couldn't alter the 'amount owing', a day later let alone 12 months.
 

Swamp

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Equipment
L4701DT with NH92 backhoe
Nov 22, 2022
15
10
3
Wisconsin
hmm.. your wife cosigned the loan ? for HER tractor !!!! HER name is ALSO on the 'Bill of Sale' ?

I think of this as TWO separate parts...
1) the actual 'Bill of Sale'... the contract to BUY the tractor ( and parts....)
2) the FINANACING contract, done through Kubota Credit Corporation..HOW the purchase is to be paid.

These are (or should be ) two totally different contracts. Hopefully both husband and wife are on the 'Bill of Sale'. If she's cosigned the 'loan', when you've paid off the 'loan' SHE is entitled to 1/2 of the tractor......

Again, would have to the 'bill of sale' NOT the 'loan' paperwork to see if there's any way the DEALER can change the 'amount owing'. Pretty sure the loan company cannot do that. Loan company is no different than say VISA. If you'd used your VISA to pay 100% of the sale, VISA couldn't alter the 'amount owing', a day later let alone 12 months.
So that is the part that the dealership is hanging it's hat on. The disclaimer on the finance agreement. They are saying that since Kubota discontinued that finance program in September, prior to the tractor delivery then they can pretty much do what they want. I have requested that the dealership provide a copy of the phone conversation with my wife and the notification that the conversation was recorded. I also informed them that the stated disclaimer concerns only the financing portion and nothing to do with pricing. The fact is that Kubota is still offering financing on new purchases, just with different specifications. The dealer seems to think that since the tractor wasn't delivered and the financing was not instituted that should give them the right to do as they please with the pricing. I call BS and am waiting for a response from my attorney. With Holiday and the weekend it will more than likely be a few days. The dealership has also not responded with a copy of supposed recording. My wife has been a business manager for nearly 30 years and I highly doubt that the pertinent information that they are claiming was relayed actually was.
 

GeoHorn

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May 18, 2018
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Unfortunately that “contract” has an expiration-date of Dec 31, 2021. It is no longer valid. IMO
4AE562A8-6F6D-45B3-B7CD-FF58B17A58B2.jpeg
 
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drumminj

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L4701, Mule 4010
Nov 4, 2021
61
21
8
TN
Unfortunately that “contract” has an expiration-date of Dec 31, 2021. It is no longer valid. IMO
IANAL, but I'm pretty sure once the downpayment is made, the agreement is locked. So long as the DP was made within that window that "expiration" wouldn't matter anymore
 

Rdrcr

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L2501 Turbo (Current), B2601 (Sold)
May 7, 2021
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WA
^^^^
I was looking at the expiration date too. It'll depend on state laws. However, in addition, it's a quote, not an invoice.
Unfortunately, with the documents presented, I believe the dealer is able to alter the pricing of the tractor and the agreement.

OP, I'm very very sorry. It's absolutely horrible how you dealer is treating you. It's inexcusable. I hope the owner does the right thing....if not, I hope the dealer goes out of business.

Mike
 
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PaulL

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B2601
Jul 17, 2017
1,403
625
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NZ
My opinion (realising that opinions are worth what you paid for them)

1. You have a quote with a validity date till Dec 2021.
2. You accepted that quote, and paid the down payment. So the quote has been exercised
3. The payment of the down payment turns that from a quote to a contract - because consideration has been paid
4. But what are the terms of that contract? Is there any other documentation, or do you have only the quote as documentation?

My interpretation matches yours on the finance clause. They have the right to vary the finance programme, but having said that, my interpretation is that they have the right to vary it up to the point you accept the quote. If you had the tractor, and they said "you know that 60 months interest free you signed up to, we're changing it" you'd rightly say no. They can change it up until you sign up for it.

Ultimately the problem here is that you've accepted the quote and paid a down payment, but you don't have a sales contract. You also don't have a finance agreement, so arguably that means they can vary the terms of the financing as well if they wish.

The quote looks to be some form of Kubota standard quote - since it says that quotes can only be provided by a Kubota dealer (you wouldn't say that on a dealer quote, that'd make no sense). So that means that officially, Kubota gave you that quote (via your dealer). It would be worth asking Kubota what their position is on quotes once you pay the down payment - is the price still variable, or is it fixed at that point? Others have suggested that Kubota have an expectation that once money is taken the price doesn't vary.
 

Swamp

New member

Equipment
L4701DT with NH92 backhoe
Nov 22, 2022
15
10
3
Wisconsin
^^^^
I was looking at the expiration date too. It'll depend on state laws. However, in addition, it's a quote, not an invoice.
Unfortunately, with the documents presented, I believe the dealer is able to alter the pricing of the tractor and the agreement.

OP, I'm very very sorry. It's absolutely horrible how you dealer is treating you. It's inexcusable. I hope the owner does the right thing....if not, I hope the dealer goes out of business.

Mike
The dealer explained to me that the reason for the expiration date on the quote was because on Jan 1, Kubota locks down the system so that nothing can be ordered while all of the pricing is changed. That was why they said I needed to get there with a down payment prior to that in order to lock the 2021 price in. Therein lies my anger. I did exactly what they said I needed to do to lock in the price and now in my opinion they are trying to screw me over.
 

PaulL

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Equipment
B2601
Jul 17, 2017
1,403
625
113
NZ
The dealer explained to me that the reason for the expiration date on the quote was because on Jan 1, Kubota locks down the system so that nothing can be ordered while all of the pricing is changed. That was why they said I needed to get there with a down payment prior to that in order to lock the 2021 price in. Therein lies my anger. I did exactly what they said I needed to do to lock in the price and now in my opinion they are trying to screw me over.
Ugh. That's also quite poor. I'd be writing to Kubota (who I think control the actual pricing here), and explaining the history, the promises along the way, and what's now happening. I feel like I've seen multiple stories of Kubota making things right in this kind of situation.
 
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Heehaw

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Oct 4, 2022
15
2
3
Michigan
Interesting thread,
Hope everything works out for the OP and the dealer honors the original price.
I am getting quotes for a MX5400 from a couple of dealers this week and and am ready to purchase with cash. I will ask each dealer about honoring the original purchase agreement upon delivery and see what they say.
I would prefer to buy from one of these dealers as they are both 30 miles in opposite directions and would be the dealer I would use for repairs.
If they both say they may not honor the original price upon delivery I will be contacting a dealer that is 70 miles away who has one on his lot.
If the price is comparable with all the options that will need to be added to his unit I will probably end up buying from him instead of dealing with a possible price increase on delivery from the other dealers.
The only reason for buying now is to avoid a potential upcoming price from Kubota and to take advantage of the NCHA discount. Otherwise I would wait to see what the 2023 economy brings and the possibility of being able to pick up a used tractor at a reasonable price along with the savings of not paying sales tax on a used unit.
I have noticed a lot of sellers on FB marketplace are dropping prices on tractors they have had listed for sometime.
 

GreensvilleJay

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BX23-S
Apr 2, 2019
5,639
1,993
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Greensville,Ontario,Canada
I just pulled out my BX23S invoice from 4 years ago...
It says 'INVOICE' on the top and aside from the usual 'restocking fee charges and no return electrical' there is NO mention of ANY 'wiggle wording' to allow the dealer to alter the price or ANY other information in the invoice.