A reasonable alternative to 2 grease guns?

Elliott in GA

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I didn’t see that at all.

Mike Wiles (AskTractorMike) and I communicate directly from time to time. He’s a really really REALLY nice guy and very knowlegeable about tractors and such. By his own admission…in his opening statement …he does NOT know about grease.

In the video he introduces the president of AET, the seller of LubeShuttle, a guy named “Wes”…who is a SALESMAN for the LubeShuttle products and Mike refers to him as an “expert” on grease.

He is NOT an “expert” on grease. He does NOT ”manufacture” grease …as he CLAIMS in his comments …(such as when he states, “when we make grease…..yadda yadda yadda …. centistokes....yadda yadda yadda.) He does not “make” grease…he sells grease in tubes that fit his LubeShuttle product. His primary interest is in selling you a LubeShuttle and thereby boxing-you-into buying his LubeShuttle Cartridges.

Further, throughout the video “Wes” contradicts himself, first by tossing out phraseology with which he hopes to Impress the listener with his use of “buzz-words”…. then by misapplication of those very phrases. In particular, Points 3 and 10 and subsequently, he says the “type” of grease you use is “not that important”….(the differentiation of which he refers to by PRICE)….then he goes on to say that there ARE ACTUALLY valid reasons for different grease thickeners (such as Lithium, Calcium, Moly, Poly-urea)….and then acknowledges that MOLY is BEST for PINS and BUSHINGS but NOT for BEARINGS. Then (item 10 and subsequent) he emphasizes that after all the comments in which he says it’s NOT IMPORTANT for “compact tractors” what you use…. he emphasizes to “follow the manufacturers’ instructions” as to what specific type grease to use. :oops:

He contradicts any notion that he is an “expert” on greases when he promotes poly-urea/synthetics by “why it’s used in sealed bearings”….WHICH ARE NEVER GREASED because they are “sealed” not not serviceable by operators…. the implication being that if it’s good enough for sealed-bearings that never get greased it must be ”best” for tractors, skid-loaders, balers, etc… … THEN he Completely negates his own recommendations by stating it is ”not necessary for compact tractors”.

HERE is what he DOES say which is CORRECT: Lithium is probably the most commonly used general purpose grease. Moly should be used on pins/bushings such as on FELs. Do NOT MIX different types of greases. FOLLOW your Mfr’s recommendations.

Kubota says “general purpose” on tractors and ”Moly” on FELs. DOH.
If you review the video, he differentiates between heavy use equipment (construction equipment) and compact tractors. For construction equipment pins and bushings, he acknowledges the value of moly, but compact tractors do not experience these types of loads/forces.

Just as a point of comparison, the values of 5% moly and poly urea grease in terms of Load Wear and Timken are approximately the same if you look at their spec sheets. You can also buy 5% Moly for heavy industrial equipment with much higher values (and extreme price) due to the additives package - not the Moly.

Use whatever grease or greases you want; I feel comfortable using just Poly Urea on my compact tractor, 3 pt. mowers and related equipment.
 
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DustyRusty

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Don't forget low temp grease for your snowblower auger zerks.
Auger zerks are just to keep water out so the shaft doesn't rust. It doesn't matter what you use for this as long as you grease it regularly to push out any water that should develop in the area between the auger pipe and the shaft.
 
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bbxlr8

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gotta agree with George here. I just broke down and started running two grease guns. one with moly one without. I hemmed and hawed over it, in practice its not a big deal, just get your second gun and move on with life :)
This is where I landed as well. I DO keep up with it and go through it a lot on two tractors - this reminds me that the seal on one of my mower spindles is shot :p and I should fix it NOW!.

I have one working larger gun w/ a locknlube and one smaller old one. I had just resigned myself to either seeing if I can fix the broken large one (wasn't worth messing with "in season") or just buying another per above.

I'm only using one type of grease right now - lucas red but have syn moly & HD on-hand. FWIW: Past threads & recommendations turned me on to Schaeffer’s as well. Would have to order it in my case.
 
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jyoutz

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I was looking at two grease types at TSC today. It looks like Rotella makes both a moly and high-temp lithium. I’m wondering about buying both or if the high temp would work in both tractor and loader applications?
 

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NCL4701

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I was looking at two grease types at TSC today. It looks like Rotella makes both a moly and high-temp lithium. I’m wondering about buying both or if the high temp would work in both tractor and loader applications?
Moly is for pin type joints, not bearings. The high temp lithium is for bearings.

Where you’ll get debate and differences of opinion is whether moly is really needed for the forces involved with UT, CUT, and SCUT size machines. Most people have an opinion and many are very adamant about their position.

If you use only one grease for everything: high temp lithium. If you use two greases: moly for pins; lithium for bearings.
 
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jyoutz

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Moly is for pin type joints, not bearings. The high temp lithium is for bearings.

Where you’ll get debate and differences of opinion is whether moly is really needed for the forces involved with UT, CUT, and SCUT size machines. Most people have an opinion and many are very adamant about their position.

If you use only one grease for everything: high temp lithium. If you use two greases: moly for pins; lithium for bearings.
I’ve been reading that a high temp polyurea grease can be used for both pins and bearings. Something like the Lucas oil heavy duty green. Anyone used this product, or can recommend another.
 
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kubotafreak

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I’ve been reading that a high temp polyurea grease can be used for both pins and bearings. Something like the Lucas oil heavy duty green. Anyone used this product, or can recommend another.
I would be one of those who dove off into this. I have the green loaded in my battery gun for everything. Except the tractor. Ive used kubota blue since day one on it, and loader. The backhoe gets black moly. The only reduction I have considered is getting rid of the blue, because it and lucas green are comparable.
 

jyoutz

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I would be one of those who dove off into this. I have the green loaded in my battery gun for everything. Except the tractor. Ive used kubota blue since day one on it, and loader. The backhoe gets black moly. The only reduction I have considered is getting rid of the blue, because it and lucas green are comparable.
Is Kubota blue suitable for both the tractor and loader?
 
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GeoHorn

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What does your tractor manual say?

What does your Loader manual say?

:sleep:
 
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kubotafreak

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Is Kubota blue suitable for both the tractor and loader?
The loader recommends EP grease, and suggests 3%moly. Kubota recommends polyura as an EP multi use grease, as does John Deere. Is it suitable? To me it is as long as it is for the scut/cut plated/chrome/Nickle loader pins sub 1.5”. Would a moly provide more protection? Possibly would, do I need that amount for the loader, probably not. You get more film strength from a higher weight oil, but you get more windage loss too. Every thing is a compromise. I grease often, if I didn't moly would probably be used. KUBOTA does not have to clean up my tractor or pay for pins... I do.

poly.PNG

The backhoe was loaded with moly from factory. I like GEOHORN, don't like having a mixture of grease. I believe that leaves you with a mixture of less function than that of the lesser grease. It is not fun working with moly grease, so I choose to use it sparingly. Diggers live in more strenuous work environments. More dirt, and more rotational use is common in comparison to a front loader. Plated pins vs blued ductile pins are much like chrome vs impact sockets. One needs to facilitate more impact resistance, and possibility to shed off a coating. So for me, black pins get black grease...

moly.PNG
 
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jyoutz

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What does your tractor manual say?

What does your Loader manual say?

:sleep:
Those manuals aren’t always updated for better technology. For example, no synthetic motor oil is listed, yet many people are finding superior performance with synthetic.
 

jyoutz

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If you review the video, he differentiates between heavy use equipment (construction equipment) and compact tractors. For construction equipment pins and bushings, he acknowledges the value of moly, but compact tractors do not experience these types of loads/forces.

Just as a point of comparison, the values of 5% moly and poly urea grease in terms of Load Wear and Timken are approximately the same if you look at their spec sheets. You can also buy 5% Moly for heavy industrial equipment with much higher values (and extreme price) due to the additives package - not the Moly.

Use whatever grease or greases you want; I feel comfortable using just Poly Urea on my compact tractor, 3 pt. mowers and related equipment.
So I called the local Kubota dealer to get his thoughts. He said they use the Kubota Moly EP grease on everything: loader and tractor. He said that most bearings are sealed on new tractors and no other grease is needed. Not sure if this is standard advice, but I’m just reporting what he said.
 

Elliott in GA

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LX 2610SU w/535,LP RCR1860,LP FDR1660,LP SGC0554, LP FSP500, DD BBX60005
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North Georgia
So I called the local Kubota dealer to get his thoughts. He said they use the Kubota Moly EP grease on everything: loader and tractor. He said that most bearings are sealed on new tractors and no other grease is needed. Not sure if this is standard advice, but I’m just reporting what he said.
That grease would be fine for everything on the tractor/loader, the question would be the spindles on mowers and other high temperature applications.

What Messicks, others and myself are saying is that you can use a high temp grease, like Polyurea based products, for a compact tractor/loader as well as spindles and etc. (not the other way around). Thereby, you would only need one type of grease.

The big difference with the Polyurea based grease is not the Load Wear or Timken index values (they are approximately the same); it is the temperature stability of the Polyurea products.
 
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GeoHorn

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Those manuals aren’t always updated for better technology. For example, no synthetic motor oil is listed, yet many people are finding superior performance with synthetic.
That situation is addressed by the synthetic oil producer….when they identify its’ backward compatibility with that established by API, SAE, vehicle-mr’s, etc. Example: Are the old 8N Fords able to safely utilize unleaded E10 gasoline?…and newer motor oils…??
Ans: Yes, because Ford designed it (with hardened valves/seats) to run on 100% ethanol in the hopes that farmers would realize a monetary benefit by using a Ford tractor to grow ethanol-producing-crops…. and Yes, because E10 is required by various control-groups to be backward compatible.
BUT… does that mean it ‘s ”OK” to use off-brand/generic gasoline instead of Shell/Chevron/ExxonMobil/etc..(so-called “top tier” gasoline producers)…?? The answer is similar to the use of 93-octane fuel in that old Ford vs 87-octane…. and the difference between generic and “top tier” fuels: https://www.aaa.com/autorepair/articles/don't-confuse-gasoline-octane-and-quality

…and because newer motor oils are backward compatible and superior in similar ways.

BUT… jyoutz…. I think there was a slight, perhaps unintended, segue in your response. If the FEL mfrl specifies a “moly” grease for the pins etc….. a modern synthetic Non-moly will not meet the requirements simply because its newer or synthetic.
 
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jyoutz

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MX6000 HST open station, FEL, 6’ cutter, forks, 8’ rear blade, 7’ cultivator
Jan 14, 2019
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Edgewood, New Mexico
That situation is addressed by the synthetic oil producer….when they identify its’ backward compatibility with that established by API, SAE, vehicle-mr’s, etc. Example: Are the old 8N Fords able to safely utilize unleaded E10 gasoline?…and newer motor oils…??
Ans: Yes, because Ford designed it (with hardened valves/seats) to run on 100% ethanol in the hopes that farmers would realize a monetary benefit by using a Ford tractor to grow ethanol-producing-crops…. and Yes, because E10 is required by various control-groups to be backward compatible.
BUT… does that mean it ‘s ”OK” to use off-brand/generic gasoline instead of Shell/Chevron/ExxonMobil/etc..(so-called “top tier” gasoline producers)…?? The answer is similar to the use of 93-octane fuel in that old Ford vs 87-octane…. and the difference between generic and “top tier” fuels: https://www.aaa.com/autorepair/articles/don't-confuse-gasoline-octane-and-quality

…and because newer motor oils are backward compatible and superior in similar ways.

BUT… jyoutz…. I think there was a slight, perhaps unintended, segue in your response. If the FEL mfrl specifies a “moly” grease for the pins etc….. a modern synthetic Non-moly will not meet the requirements simply because its newer or synthetic.
Yes I understand the logic in your point about moly grease and loaders. But I’m still not sure. Yesterday I called the service shop at my dealer and also another local Kubota dealer. The both told me that their shops use high temp polyurea grease for the entire tractor including the loader. So, are they wrong? Both are long established Kubota only dealerships; one is the largest in the local Region. And it appears that Messicks is saying the same thing on the video posted here. Very confusing. Could it be that the loader manual language hasn’t been updated for awhile and pre-dates modern polyurea grease? IDK
 
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GeoHorn

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Yes I understand the logic in your point about moly grease and loaders. But I’m still not sure. Yesterday I called the service shop at my dealer and also another local Kubota dealer. The both told me that their shops use high temp polyurea grease for the entire tractor including the loader. So, are they wrong? Both are long established Kubota only dealerships; one is the largest in the local Region. And it appears that Messicks is saying the same thing on the video posted here. Very confusing. Could it be that the loader manual language hasn’t been updated for awhile and pre-dates modern polyurea grease? IDK
I don’t know if ”they’re wrong”…. I just know they don’t follow the mf’rs requirements. (and they will happily repair my loader when its bushings/pins wear-out.)

”Moly” grease contains molybdenum …which acts similar to graphite (but it’s not the same)… in that the moly provides small platelets which shield the pins/bushings from wear by actual/physical presence. So..it seems to me…that synthetic grease which does not contain that moly cannot behave similarly. Also, FELs are still being made subsequent to the introduction of synthetic greases…..and yet… the FEL owner manuals still prescribe moly grease.

So that what I do.
 

jyoutz

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MX6000 HST open station, FEL, 6’ cutter, forks, 8’ rear blade, 7’ cultivator
Jan 14, 2019
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Edgewood, New Mexico
Soun
I don’t know if ”they’re wrong”…. I just know they don’t follow the mf’rs requirements. (and they will happily repair my loader when its bushings/pins wear-out.)

”Moly” grease contains molybdenum …which acts similar to graphite (but it’s not the same)… in that the moly provides small platelets which shield the pins/bushings from wear by actual/physical presence. So..it seems to me…that synthetic grease which does not contain that moly cannot behave similarly. Also, FELs are still being made subsequent to the introduction of synthetic greases…..and yet… the FEL owner manuals still prescribe moly grease.

So that what I do.
Sounds reasonable
 

ACDII

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Moly grease with low percentages of moly work fine in any application. Where high percentages of moly are in the grease, do not use on roller bearings. Less than 5% moly is OK for any NLGI2 application.
 

OlFerguson

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I agree with the oringal poster. Different grease guns for the different applications. Not all lubricants are made the same. I typically use shell gadus or coop makes a high performance grease for multiple applications.
 
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