A DOH moment & a question...

[Bulldog]

This is the kind of comment that someone makes when they have nothing worthwhile to add. I will not stoop to that level.



Have you ever used a grader behind your tractor?

I didn't intend to hurt your feelings but I still stand behind my opinion. A land plane was made for people that don't have the skills to put dirt or rock on grade with other implements. I mean really, what kind of skill does it take to set it down and drag it behind you? It's doing all the work for you.

I guess when it comes right down to it you have me on this one. No, I have not used one behind my tractor. Yes I have used a grader and like I said before the box scrape is much more suited to my needs.

As far as I'm concerned this has gone as far as it needs to go. If you feel the need to continue just send a PM. I have a strong feeling if this continues it will get ugly and I have more respect for my OTT brothers than that.

 

[Eric McCarthy]

Each tool has their place. I can move more matterial, grade, level, backfill and fine grade with a box blade a helluva lot better then I could with a grader scraper. NO I don't own one but YES I've used one behind my tractor and its a nice tool over all. I have yet been able to move large amounts of material at one time with a grader scraper like I can with a box blade. And back filling is next to impossible to do as well.

I miss the days of the box blade with retractable scarifiers and a hinged back blade.

 

[helomech]

I didn't intend to hurt your feelings but I still stand behind my opinion. A land plane was made for people that don't have the skills to put dirt or rock on grade with other implements. I mean really, what kind of skill does it take to set it down and drag it behind you? It's doing all the work for you.

I guess when it comes right down to it you have me on this one. No, I have not used one behind my tractor. Yes I have used a grader and like I said before the box scrape is much more suited to my needs.

As far as I'm concerned this has gone as far as it needs to go. If you feel the need to continue just send a PM. I have a strong feeling if this continues it will get ugly and I have more respect for my OTT brothers than that.

If you truly did not intend to attempt to hurt someone's feelings than there would be no reason to get personal. There is also no reason to get bent out of shape because someone else has a difference of opinion. You are the one turning this personal.

Why on earth would you buy a tool that is harder to use than a tool that does it easier? If you want to do it the hard way get a shovel and a rake. It just makes no sense. My choosing the easier tool has nothing to do with my ability or my skill in using the other tool. It simply has to do with choosing the best tool for the job. My time is much more valuable than the cost difference, btw I have both implements. I am headed to a friends to fix many miles of dirt road on 5000 acres of land, guess what tool I am bringing? Not the box blade.

Again there is no reason you have to get angry about this discussion, I sure as hell am not. I choose my tools, you choose yours. Just leave the personal attacks out of it.

 

[helomech]

Each tool has their place. I can move more matterial, grade, level, backfill and fine grade with a box blade a helluva lot better then I could with a grader scraper. NO I don't own one but YES I've used one behind my tractor and its a nice tool over all. I have yet been able to move large amounts of material at one time with a grader scraper like I can with a box blade.

I have had enough material in my grader that it stopped my 50hp 4wd tractor. All 4 tires spinning and not moving. I am not sure how a box blade can move more material. Had to let some soil out many times, especially sand, it will move lots of sand at one time. I can get a pic to prove this point if needed.

And back filling is next to impossible to do as well.
.

Now this I truly don't understand. The grader works awesome back filling, because it does not cut into the material going backwards. It will push the material and let it fall into the low spots. Unless I am calling back filling something different than you call it. I have yet to find a job that a grader can not do that a box blade can.

 

[TripleR]

helomech, I am sure as heck not trying to get in on the pi**ing match thing, but I really would like to see some pictures on how a person digs and moves large amounts of dirt with one land plane. I used box blades and drag scrapers as well as grader or back blades for many years and decided last year to bite the bullet so to speak and invest in a Land Pride HR3584 with hydraulic scarifiers as even fairly heavy box scrapers etc. just skip along the surface on our hard dry clay soils. I read threads on the land planes and watched them on You Tube, but know no one who owns one nor have I used one, but everything I saw indicated as the dirt flowed over and out the back, it would not work well for moving lots of dirt.

Trust me I am not trying to start anything, I am really just interested in how things work and yes, I watch "How its Made" and "How Do They Do It" on the science channel.

 

[Bulldog]

If you truly did not intend to attempt to hurt someone's feelings than there would be no reason to get personal. There is also no reason to get bent out of shape because someone else has a difference of opinion. You are the one turning this personal.

Why on earth would you buy a tool that is harder to use than a tool that does it easier? If you want to do it the hard way get a shovel and a rake. It just makes no sense. My choosing the easier tool has nothing to do with my ability or my skill in using the other tool. It simply has to do with choosing the best tool for the job. My time is much more valuable than the cost difference, btw I have both implements. I am headed to a friends to fix many miles of dirt road on 5000 acres of land, guess what tool I am bringing? Not the box blade.

Again there is no reason you have to get angry about this discussion, I sure as hell am not. I choose my tools, you choose yours. Just leave the personal attacks out of it.

I'm not bent out of shape or mad in any way. Years ago I went to a Cat training center and the rule was if you don't agree with something to call BS. Then it was discussed and one side or the other would be proved right and the meeting went on. That being said I'm calling bullshit on several things.

How can a implement that only has two 6" tall cutting edges move more material than a box with a 18" backboard. It's not designed to move large amounts of material, it's made to level small amounts on roads and such.

I can't see how it's possible to stop a 50 hp 4x4 tractor with a land plane. What part of the story is missing? Hang a tree stump, rock or something along those lines. Was it in mud or some other type of soft underfooting?

Unless I'm reading it wrong you said you dug a 100' x 30' x up to 9' deep hole with your grader. That's pretty impressive being done with a implement designed to level material, not dig it.

The land plane I used was a different brand from the one you say you are using. The one I tried would do none of the things you say you do with yours. You keep talking about pics, I would love to see some.

 

[helomech]

helomech, I am sure as heck not trying to get in on the pi**ing match thing, but I really would like to see some pictures on how a person digs and moves large amounts of dirt with one land plane. I used box blades and drag scrapers as well as grader or back blades for many years and decided last year to bite the bullet so to speak and invest in a Land Pride HR3584 with hydraulic scarifiers as even fairly heavy box scrapers etc. just skip along the surface on our hard dry clay soils. I read threads on the land planes and watched them on You Tube, but know no one who owns one nor have I used one, but everything I saw indicated as the dirt flowed over and out the back, it would not work well for moving lots of dirt.

Trust me I am not trying to start anything, I am really just interested in how things work and yes, I watch "How its Made" and "How Do They Do It" on the science channel.

That is cool, I just got back from fixing miles and miles of dirt roads on a deer lease with it, and it only took me 4 hours. The roads where in bad shape had not been worked on in years. I am getting lunch then I will go and pull some dirt and take a pic of the grader full of dirt. I am happy to have a discussion with you.

 

[helomech]

I'm not bent out of shape or mad in any way. Years ago I went to a Cat training center and the rule was if you don't agree with something to call BS. Then it was discussed and one side or the other would be proved right and the meeting went on. That being said I'm calling bullshit on several things.

Okay I get that.

How can a implement that only has two 6" tall cutting edges move more material than a box with a 18" backboard. It's not designed to move large amounts of material, it's made to level small amounts on roads and such.

Because it is over 6 feet long. It has plenty of area to hold dirt. Unlike a box blade that is only about 2 foot deep. I will go out after I eat and pull some dirt and post a pic.

I can't see how it's possible to stop a 50 hp 4x4 tractor with a land plane. What part of the story is missing? Hang a tree stump, rock or something along those lines. Was it in mud or some other type of soft underfooting?

No, nothing caught the blade. Mud, sand and clay will fill it up, unless you lift it to let some out it will bog the tractor down. I guess I can try to post a video. It stopping my tractor happens on my road going in and out of my home. So no muck, soft under footing, just hard packed clay. Really really loose soil will flow over it, easily, but it still drags lots with it.

Unless I'm reading it wrong you said you dug a 100' x 30' x up to 9' deep hole with your grader. That's pretty impressive being done with a implement designed to level material, not dig it.

Kind of, lots of the digging was done with the bucket, but moving lots of the dirt was done with the grader. It will dig as much as a box blade. A box blade (blade) only sticks down maybe an inch below the grade just like the grader. The grader just has lots more weight on it. A box blade won't do anything on my road, but scrape the surface.

The land plane I used was a different brand from the one you say you are using. The one I tried would do none of the things you say you do with yours. You keep talking about pics, I would love to see some.

Happily, just let me eat.

 

[helomech]

This is going to take a bit. Internet is slow as hell and I can't figure out how to upload more than one pic at a time. Anyways pics are coming, I just have this feeling that no matter what or how many pics I post someone is going to claim something. Also it is very very dry here, anyone that does dirt work know you need some moisture in the ground to work the dirt, that is why construction sites have water trucks. That being said the ground it to dry to get the tractor to spin all 4 tires right now, but it will get stuck in 2wd even now. That is not because of traction, it is because the soil is like talcum powder and just runs off. With just a tiny bit of moisture in the soil it carries much more dirt. If we ever get some rain and some moisture in the ground I will post more pics. I an sure someone will tear that sentence apart, but if I have to I will hook up the box blade and show that it won't even collect any dirt on this hard ground. It is just not heavy enough.

Sure wish I had taken pics at my friends deer hunting land. I had to put it in low gear a few times to pull the load of dirt I was dragging around, and in low it was fighting for traction.

 

[helomech]

Now if someone says it does not matter that it is dry here than I will know from that statement that I should not waste any more time with that person. It is so dry right now my box blade does nothing on my dirt road, just scrapes the top of it. It is actually to dry to work on the road. Anyways the cutter is on and I am going cut grass now. Got lots of that to cut. BTW the cutter is a brush hog brand in case anyone want to knock that choice also.

This is just a pic I took before I unloaded the tractor after going to my friends land.



Here is a pic of the grader with dirt in it after just a short drag.



And here is after lifting the grader. As you can see there is plenty of dirt there, and if there was any moisture in the dirt it would be a lot more. That is enough dirt that it would flow over the top of my box blade, and my box blade is 6 foot wide, just like this grader.

 

[TripleR]

helomech, I sure know about dry ground, on a couple of our farms we have what my dad referred to as "Buckshot Clay" and when it is dry, it is hard, only thing worse is on another farm we have some "Black Gumbo" and when we chopped cotton in it, out hoes just bounced off and it was more "scraping" than "chopping". That is one of the reasons why I don't have anything without shanks or scarifiers.

Just for reference, my box scraper has a 24" "Highback" design and weighs 1119 pounds and is 7' wide with hydraulically operated scarifiers/shanks. Woods makes one even bigger that I would like to have for my M8540, but as always $$$$$ takes precedence.

I, like Bulldog, don't see how a piece of equipment with six inch blades can move as much material as something with 12-24 inch cutting surface.

Your picture did show it pulled more dirt than I thought it would as I "thought" the point was to have the dirt flow over and not build up.

Here is an interesting though long thread on it, not sure if it is the one on which I got flamed or not, but I have been on this subject: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/138952-land-pride-grading-scraper.html

No one is trying to be contentious, we just honestly don't understand how it works and are certainly willing to learn.

My system is slow today too, so I am going to give up for a while, have a good afternoon.

No one is trying to be contentious as

 

[helomech]

helomech, I sure know about dry ground, on a couple of our farms we have what my dad referred to as "Buckshot Clay" and when it is dry, it is hard, only thing worse is on another farm we have some "Black Gumbo" and when we chopped cotton in it, out hoes just bounced off and it was more "scraping" than "chopping". That is one of the reasons why I don't have anything without shanks or scarifiers.

Just for reference, my box scraper has a 24" "Highback" design and weighs 1119 pounds and is 7' wide with hydraulically operated scarifiers/shanks. Woods makes one even bigger that I would like to have for my M8540, but as always $$$$$ takes precedence.

I, like Bulldog, don't see how a piece of equipment with six inch blades can move as much material as something with 12-24 inch cutting surface.

Your picture did show it pulled more dirt than I thought it would as I "thought" the point was to have the dirt flow over and not build up.

Here is an interesting though long thread on it, not sure if it is the one on which I got flamed or not, but I have been on this subject: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/138952-land-pride-grading-scraper.html

No one is trying to be contentious, we just honestly don't understand how it works and are certainly willing to learn.

My system is slow today too, so I am going to give up for a while, have a good afternoon.

No one is trying to be contentious as

That is a big box blade, mine in no where near that heavy. It can be moved a little by hand to line it up. I broke many scarifiers, seems like every time I put them on I find another stump under the ground and bam broke.

I mainly bought it for taking care of my road, the box blade was just taking way to long, and it did not fill in the low spots like this does. After using it for a while I found that I can drag lots of dirt around. If we ever get any rain again, I will post pics of it full of dirt, but right now it is just to dry.

When the dirt has the right moisture content it does flow over the blades well, but it does drag a good bit around also. Just really depends on the soil. On most of my road it just drags a little bit, except in the places where there is moist sand, then it fills up, and that is one place it bogs the tractor.

I have never seen a box blade with a 12-24 inch cutting surface. On mine the blade just extends past the bottom of the box a inch or two. Can you post a pic or link to yours so I can see what you are talking about.

Thanks for this reply, I like when conversations go like this. Have a great day. I got more grass cutting to do, but need a break from the dust and heat. Going to be coughing up mud for a few days.

 

[Bulldog]

I think this is a great example of you get what you pay for. The grader I tried wouldn't move that much dirt if you drug it around for a hour.

I know you said it works forward or backwards. The pic of it sitting on the trailer it appears to have cutting edges on both sides, is that correct? The one I used only had them for going forward.

Thanks for the pics.

 

[helomech]

I think this is a great example of you get what you pay for. The grader I tried wouldn't move that much dirt if you drug it around for a hour.

I know you said it works forward or backwards. The pic of it sitting on the trailer it appears to have cutting edges on both sides, is that correct? The one I used only had them for going forward.

Thanks for the pics.

Cutting blades are only on one side. I use it to push dirt backwards though and it does it without digging in, which helps to level things that are loose.

Thanks. I really like it. Sometimes it digs to good. If the soil is loose the blades put more down pressure than the thin skids can hold up. When this happens I just pull up on the 3 pt a little bit.

I am sure the same applies to box blades. Sounds like the triple has is a good one. Mine is a light duty compared to his.

 

[TripleR]

That is a big box blade, mine in no where near that heavy. It can be moved a little by hand to line it up. I broke many scarifiers, seems like every time I put them on I find another stump under the ground and bam broke.

I mainly bought it for taking care of my road, the box blade was just taking way to long, and it did not fill in the low spots like this does. After using it for a while I found that I can drag lots of dirt around. If we ever get any rain again, I will post pics of it full of dirt, but right now it is just to dry.

When the dirt has the right moisture content it does flow over the blades well, but it does drag a good bit around also. Just really depends on the soil. On most of my road it just drags a little bit, except in the places where there is moist sand, then it fills up, and that is one place it bogs the tractor.

I have never seen a box blade with a 12-24 inch cutting surface. On mine the blade just extends past the bottom of the box a inch or two. Can you post a pic or link to yours so I can see what you are talking about.

Thanks for this reply, I like when conversations go like this. Have a great day. I got more grass cutting to do, but need a break from the dust and heat. Going to be coughing up mud for a few days.

Sorry, poor or lazy use of nomenclature on my part, the cutting edge is not 24", the cutting edge is removable and reversible, but it transitions into the high back, so I didn't see a need to get too specific as the "cutting" part on any cutting instrument really isn't measured in inches, my mistake. Well maybe since it is 84" wide the cutting edge is 84".

I will attempt a picture or two. To the left, you can see my other one which is a Land Pride BB2584 with a weight of a little over 600 pounds; OK, but not heavy enough and I don't use it much except when I need both tractors going at the same time and then it goes on the L5740 and the HR3584 on the M8540.

http://www.landpride.com/products/62/hr35-hrl35-series-box-scrapers

http://www.landpride.com/products/60/bb25-series-box-scrapers

 

[helomech]

Dang that thing is huge. Much much bigger than the one I have. I bet mine is less than 400 lbs.

The cutting edges on my grader are reversible also.

 

[TripleR]

Dang that thing is huge. Much much bigger than the one I have. I bet mine is less than 400 lbs.

The cutting edges on my grader are reversible also.

Yes it is big, but if I could afford it, I would get a Woods HD24496HXD which is a foot wider and 200+ pounds heavier for the M8540.

We have some lighter weight ones at another farm, but we just use them mostly for driveway maintenance and te driveways out there are only a few hundred feet at the very most.

My dad used an old Ford 600 with a economically priced box blades to do house site prep in Mississippi; I'll never be as good as he was so I have to cheat with better equipment to even come close.

 

[helomech]

Yes it is big, but if I could afford it, I would get a Woods HD24496HXD which is a foot wider and 200+ pounds heavier for the M8540.

We have some lighter weight ones at another farm, but we just use them mostly for driveway maintenance and te driveways out there are only a few hundred feet at the very most.

My dad used an old Ford 600 with a economically priced box blades to do house site prep in Mississippi; I'll never be as good as he was so I have to cheat with better equipment to even come close.

How much is that thing? I googled it and it looks impressive, but did not see a price.

 

[TripleR]

How much is that thing? I googled it and it looks impressive, but did not see a price.

I believe it lists for right around $4300, I bought it with my L5740 and got a little bit off, but still pretty darned pricey.

 

[Bulldog]

Dang that thing is huge. Much much bigger than the one I have. I bet mine is less than 400 lbs.

The cutting edges on my grader are reversible also.

That may be the biggest difference in how they work, my 65" bushhog brand box scrape weighes 510 lbs. I think they also make a light duty line like what the land pride boxes are. I had a light weight one before and it was junk for the most part. The Bushhog model I have now works great. I couldn't ask for more.