2013 M8560 Slow Starting

[jkwilson]

UPDATED With Solution: 2013 M8560 Slow Starting

UPDATED with solution in my last post.

Tractor started nearly instantly when I first got it. Less than 500 hours. Fuel filter has less than 25 hours on it.

Out of the blue, the tractor became slow to start. 3 or 4 rounds of cranking, maybe 7 or 8 seconds each, and then it will start. What puzzles me is that it doesn't matter whether it is cold or warm, it still exhibits some slowness. Glowplug light comes on if it's cold enough, and I wait for it, but it seems to make no difference. I've left the block heater plugged in for hours and it exhibits the same behavior. Still does it when air temps are in the 70s.

Even when working the tractor, it is slow to restart if you stop to get out. Maybe takes 2 or 3 rounds when it has been running.

Don't see any smoke to speak of when cranking.

Starting aside, the thing runs like a top once it goes. No smoke while running. Fuel from a fresh, reliable source. No leaks. Once the tractor starts, it immediately runs fine with no loping or smoke to make you suspect fuel delivery issues.

My only suspicion would be the battery, and this is only because one day over the winter I started it after the battery maintainer had been plugged in for a couple of days, and it started right up. The maintainer was just plugged in because I tend to run the tractor for short spells during the winter and I wanted to be sure the battery was fully charged. I hadn't seen any battery issues.

Cranking speed sounds normal all the time though, so I'm puzzled.

Appreciate any advice.

 

[100 td]

It certainly sounds like the battery, so either use the charger again, and if it starts right up, it's the battery, or use a booster battery and cables and if the same result, then it's the battery. It's also possible something is draining the battery down, or it's just starting to fail. Get a volt meter and ensure the battery is being charged at 14+volts when the engine is running.

 

[Tooljunkie]

Thought mine was normal, until battery got a little weak(er).was a night and day difference. Small price to pay.

Weak battery turns starter slower, brushes arc more, wearing faster and also generating unnecessary heat. Take your chances, could get expensive.

Check voltage in battery while cranking,no less than 10 volts.....

 

[Russell King]

Check the battery cables and ground point of cable


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[beige02]

I thought these batteries are stronger and last longer.

 

[BAP]

Are you running the glow plugs before trying to start? If you turn the key part way towards start, the glow plug light should come on. Stay there and slowly count to 10 then try to start. You stated that if cold enough the light comes on for the glow plugs, temperature does not control wether the plugs run or not. It is controlled by turning the key to the correct position. Chances are, your battery isn't as strong as it was, but operating the glow plugs correctly before trying to start should help out a lot.

 

[100 td]

Perhaps this is a late model with automatic temperature controlled glow plug cycle?

 

[Herkypilot]

My L3540 has had this issue for a few years now except it's really only during a cold start. It's slow to turn over. I replaced the battery last year with one that has more CCA than the original. It still does it. Checked the ground wire for good contact. That was fine also. When I get time, I think the next item is the starter. For now, it keeps starting so I'm not going to tear into it.

HP

 

[jkwilson]

Perhaps this is a late model with automatic temperature controlled glow plug cycle?

Yes it is.

 

[lugbolt]

To properly diagnose, you're going to need some tools. DVOM to check battery voltage while cranking and then if that's ok, you're gonna need Diagmaster-which is a dealer only special tool. This is used to check the many sensors, etc for proper operations and also to check the commanded rail pressure vs actual; and whether or not the injectors are firing, and a ton of other things. They're all computer controlled now, not much that the rest of us can do with 'em nowadays.

When changing a battery, be sure to turn key off, and leave it off for about 30 minutes before disconnecting the battery cables. The SCR pump will continue to pump DEF for a while after the key is turned off, this cools the injector assembly. If battery is disconnected while the SCR pump is still running and the injector is hot enough, it can damage the injector via overheating.

 

[BAP]

To properly diagnose, you're going to need some tools. DVOM to check battery voltage while cranking and then if that's ok, you're gonna need Diagmaster-which is a dealer only special tool. This is used to check the many sensors, etc for proper operations and also to check the commanded rail pressure vs actual; and whether or not the injectors are firing, and a ton of other things. They're all computer controlled now, not much that the rest of us can do with 'em nowadays.

When changing a battery, be sure to turn key off, and leave it off for about 30 minutes before disconnecting the battery cables. The SCR pump will continue to pump DEF for a while after the key is turned off, this cools the injector assembly. If battery is disconnected while the SCR pump is still running and the injector is hot enough, it can damage the injector via overheating.

I don't think this tractor has DEF or a lot of the other stuff you are talking about. It has an Interm Tier IV engine.

 

[Tx Jim]

I agree with Mr King that all 4 battery cable ends need to be checked,cleaned,tightened. Next my WAG is fuel is draining back to tank when engine isn't running. Check to determine if water separator bowl is full of fuel before attempting to start engine.

 

[BAP]

Another thing to check is the ground of the starter. If the ground wire from the battery doesn't go directly to the starter, then it relies on grounding threw the engine block. I have seen tractors that have lost a good ground at the starter because a fine layer of rust and grime develope between the starter and the block causing poor ground. This can cause the starter to turn slow.

 

[mbu]

I'd check the fuel pump. A failing fuel pump will still pump when running but will lose pressure when the engine is not running. That's why the difficulty in starting.

 

[Dave_eng]

Yes it is.

You can bypass the auto controller for the glow plugs.

Put the shuttle shift in forward and turn the key to start position, count to 10.

You will see nothing on the dash board to indicate the glow plugs are heating up.

Return shuttle shift to neutral and start engine. It should fire immediately.

If this works then there is a problem in the glow plug controller system.

Dave M7040

 

[Tx Jim]

You can bypass the auto controller for the glow plugs.

Put the shuttle shift in forward and turn the key to start position, count to 10.

You will see nothing on the dash board to indicate the glow plugs are heating up.

Return shuttle shift to neutral and start engine. It should fire immediately.

If this works then there is a problem in the glow plug controller system.

Dave M7040

According to my M7040 operators manual if ambient temp is above freezing glow plugs should not be needed to start engine.

 

[jcummins]

According to my M7040 operators manual if ambient temp is above freezing glow plugs should not be needed to start engine.

Using the manual procedure to activate the glow plugs help the M7040 start well above freezing temps.....i guarantee you that. Kubota has the glow plug management hosed up on the M7040.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[Tx Jim]

Using the manual procedure to activate the glow plugs help the M7040 start well above freezing temps.....i guarantee you that. Kubota has the glow plug management hosed up on the M7040.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

My M7040 starts plenty fast enough above freezing ambient temperature without the need for heated glow plugs. I can't envision how activating GP's would cause it to start any faster/easier.

Please explain what you mean by your statement

[/quote]Kubota has the glow plug management hosed up on the M7040[/quote]

 

[jcummins]

Here's a link to another forum where I posted the issues I found with it. MY M7040 definitely starts better when I Force the use of glow plugs.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kubota-owning-operating/329460-m7040-glow-plugs.html

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[BAP]

My M7040 starts plenty fast enough above freezing ambient temperature without the need for heated glow plugs. I can't envision how activating GP's would cause it to start any faster/easier.

Please explain what you mean by your statement

Kubota has the glow plug management hosed up on the M7040[/quote][/QUOTE]

Are you talking 33 degrees or 70 degrees as being your above freezing temperatures that your tractor starts well? Most diesels are a little sluggish starting until you get above 50 degree range. My B2920 will start without glow plugs above freezing, but you have to crank on it for 10-12 seconds to get it to start. If I run the glow plugs, it fires off on the first revolution. Above 50 degrees or so it doesn't make much difference.