Sidekick RTV-XG850 backfiring / loss of power

[lugbolt]

Every single one?
Do you have a list?

I know of dozens of RTV-XG850s with hundreds of hours that have never had any issues; they just get serviced regularly.

What I do not understand is why a company the size of Kubota, which has its own spark ignition engine line, is using a Subaru engine. Of all companies, Subaru???????????

subaru designed the KGZ770 (ZG222/227/ZG327) engine too. Also the RTV500. And Subaru built the entire RTV400 engine. Kubota builds diesel engines, but they don't build some of the gas engines-probably cheaper to outsource it is my uneducated guess.

Not all of the sidekicks have engine failures. However the potential of failures of the sidekick engine was something that I personally (and probably others as well) had addressed when they were introduced. we actually saw some of the prototypes before they were "sidekicks" when I worked for that one dealer. One of the first things I mentioned was how low the air filter is, how it's placed, how it will get dirty quickly, how low the clutch air intake/exhaust are, the lack of ground clearance, and how they don't even come close to comparing with some of the other brands. They have their place but not in my possession. The engineers thought that they should have a gas burner to compete with some of the other brands out there but I don't see much comparison. I asked the dealer I used to work at how many sidekicks they've sold, said they sold 4 in 2020, 4 in 2021, 0 in 2022, 2 in 2023, and 0 in 2024. Where I am at now, we sold over 400 Rangers each year in the same timeframe. They are just built better in a lot of ways, than the sidekicks.

 

[whitetiger]

Kubota builds diesel engines, but they don't build some of the gas engines-probably cheaper to outsource it is my uneducated guess

I recently attended a Kubota Industrial engine training session for spark ignition Kubota engines.
They built a huge number of gas engines, some the size of the RTV engines, and some are large natural gas irrigation pump engines.
We had one on display for a day or two 3 years ago, it was over 6 feet long.

 

[mikester]

its the same ring/cylinder wall failure as the og thread poster but theirs isnt as bad, likely because instead of denying the issue they stopped using it (dont let family borrow equipment....) and i know the bottom end is screwed because the green oil i drained when it started knocking looked like boat flake. (you think the alarm and lights flashing would have been a clue to shut it off but no.) its the rings having eaten the crosshatch right off and having worn beyond the functional limits on both cylinders just one makes 80 psi instead of 20. my solution is the same as its always been which is either cheap 50 hp subaru engine from a generator, a snowmobile engine or a quad engine depending on whats cheap
regardless kubota knows every single one of these subaru engines is going to fail because every single one has had some form of issue which is magically not covered by warranty

Also consider a scooter engine. You can pick up something with a compact inline twin like a suzuki burgman 650 or 400 pretty cheap. Sleds can be had pretty cheap at the end of the season.

I'd also consider going electric if kits weren't so $$#@R& expensive

 

[Sidekick]

Every single one?
Do you have a list?

I know of dozens of RTV-XG850s with hundreds of hours that have never had any issues; they just get serviced regularly.

What I do not understand is why a company the size of Kubota, which has its own spark ignition engine line, is using a Subaru engine. Of all companies, Subaru???????????

I know my dealer only sold a couple of them and was told mine and 2 others had the issue. They told me Kubota knew of the problem and talked about it at training sessions but had no solution if a machine was affected. The whole fuel / air intake system on the second generation was redesigned along with additional sensors that supposedly has solved it. Most machines affected were in areas where temperatures drop below freezing I found. I was told they were going to use my machine they swapped back to work on a solution, but I still see it still sitting behind the dealership over a year later.
I'm guessing they chose the engine to speed them to market as cheap as possible. Subaru was shutting down the small engine division and had the engine that was designed for another application they wanted to dump at fire sale pricing for the whole line and tooling. From what I could find the early ones were produced by Subaru and later ones made by Kubota employees. No one was left at Subaru that knew anything about this engine I found when contacting Subaru for possible help. I was told the problem was cold starting blew a lot of gas into the crankcase and the colder everything was, the worse the problem. That's why it needed to be run atleast 20 minutes after each start to try and evaporate un-burnt fuel from the oil. That was the solution Kubota gave my dealership, but it didn't work when cold out we found. For some reason others were fine so I'm guessing it may have been something to do with manufacturing tolerances alongside the design. No longer selling a repair manual because of proprietary information must mean they know the answer but don't want it made public in my mind.

 

[whitetiger]

I know my dealer only sold a couple of them and was told mine and 2 others had the issue. They told me Kubota knew of the problem and talked about it at training sessions but had no solution if a machine was affected. The whole fuel / air intake system on the second generation was redesigned along with additional sensors that supposedly has solved it. Most machines affected were in areas where temperatures drop below freezing I found. I was told they were going to use my machine they swapped back to work on a solution, but I still see it still sitting behind the dealership over a year later.
I'm guessing they chose the engine to speed them to market as cheap as possible. Subaru was shutting down the small engine division and had the engine that was designed for another application they wanted to dump at fire sale pricing for the whole line and tooling. From what I could find the early ones were produced by Subaru and later ones made by Kubota employees. No one was left at Subaru that knew anything about this engine I found when contacting Subaru for possible help. I was told the problem was cold starting blew a lot of gas into the crankcase and the colder everything was, the worse the problem. That's why it needed to be run atleast 20 minutes after each start to try and evaporate un-burnt fuel from the oil. That was the solution Kubota gave my dealership, but it didn't work when cold out we found. For some reason others were fine so I'm guessing it may have been something to do with manufacturing tolerances alongside the design. No longer selling a repair manual because of proprietary information must mean they know the answer but don't want it made public in my mind.

I am very familiar with the RTV-XG850, we have sold quite a few.
I have been to the Kubota Training Center for RTV-XG850 model for 3 sessions.
Maybe you should reach out to a few different dealers. Yours seems very uninformed on several issues.

There is a low percentage of the units having engine problems, but then again, it is a Subaru engine, and I am sure it is because of the dollars. They are also very sensitive to the brand of fuel used in them.
Yes, Kubota bought the engine and rights to manufacture it.

As far as not selling a WSM for them is laughable. The part number is 9Y111-18020 and can be ordered by anyone from any Kubota dealer.

 

[mikester]

They are also very sensitive to the brand of fuel used in them.

Care to elaborate?

I'm running regular gas with likely 10% ethanol because that's the only cr@p being sold here these days

 

[Sidekick]

I am very familiar with the RTV-XG850, we have sold quite a few.
I have been to the Kubota Training Center for RTV-XG850 model for 3 sessions.
Maybe you should reach out to a few different dealers. Yours seems very uninformed on several issues.

There is a low percentage of the units having engine problems, but then again, it is a Subaru engine, and I am sure it is because of the dollars. They are also very sensitive to the brand of fuel used in them.
Yes, Kubota bought the engine and rights to manufacture it.

As far as not selling a WSM for them is laughable. The part number is 9Y111-18020 and can be ordered by anyone from any Kubota dealer.

It's funny because my dealer didn't call the shots. Their Kubota rep and technical support were controlling everything because it was still under warranty with only a couple hours. There weren't test procedures for the engine and all they could try is swapping parts out. We also had another fellow west of me in Buffalo that had the same contamination issue I was in contact with and his dealer gave him the same answers and diagnosis that cold affects them. His dealer took his back on trade also. He got the redesigned engine one and no more problems in the same conditions. Another one north of him and another in Michigan that he knew of with same problems and answer from Kubota about running at least 20 minutes to warm up because of cold starting blow by needing time to evaporate from the crankcase. All were low hour machines. May not be many compared to amount sold, but it gave them a bad name around here.

 

[whitetiger]

Care to elaborate?

I'm running regular gas with likely 10% ethanol because that's the only cr@p being sold here these days

Different brand stations may use different additives. Some combinations do not react the same in some engines. All a person can do is try other brands.
We are lucky around here, as we can still get non-ethanol 91. It is awesome, particularly in air-cooled engines.

 

[RCW]

Care to elaborate?

I'm running regular gas with likely 10% ethanol because that's the only cr@p being sold here these days

Different brand stations may use different additives. Some combinations do not react the same in some engines. All a person can do is try other brands.
We are lucky around here, as we can still get non-ethanol 91. It is awesome, particularly in air-cooled engines.

We've been fortunate that we can get non-ethanol here. Been that way for many years now.

We did have a few years when it was unavailable. That wasn't good.

 

[lugbolt]

I recently attended a Kubota Industrial engine training session for spark ignition Kubota engines.
They built a huge number of gas engines, some the size of the RTV engines, and some are large natural gas irrigation pump engines.
We had one on display for a day or two 3 years ago, it was over 6 feet long.

yes I'm aware. They build a lot of gas engines. There are gas "versions" of diesel engines (ZG332 for instance....). Cummins builds gas engines too...(you probably already know but some dont)

but the 222/227 twins are robin engines, or were designed by them. Part of Fuji, or subaru, whatever. All the same. RTV500 too, and RTV400 was fully a subaru/robin/fuji. Maybe the 500 too I just don't know, but I am told it was "designed" by fuji...robin...whatever. The way the instructor said it, sounded like he was trying to hint at something else. Who knows. They didn't always tell us the 'whole story'.

I am not 100% positive but I think Yamaha purchased all of Subaru's industrial engine line.

 

[truckfixer]

Every single one?
Do you have a list?

I know of dozens of RTV-XG850s with hundreds of hours that have never had any issues; they just get serviced regularly.

What I do not understand is why a company the size of Kubota, which has its own spark ignition engine line, is using a Subaru engine. Of all companies, Subaru???????????

so we are ignoring the entire thread on the subaru engines like mine then. these seem to fail anytime the temp is below 60 and the humidity is high.. hmm sounds like pnw where i am and most of the failures are located.

 

[whitetiger]

so we are ignoring the entire thread on the subaru engines like mine then. these seem to fail anytime the temp is below 60 and the humidity is high.. hmm sounds like pnw where i am and most of the failures are located.

I am not a fan of any Subaru engine, but we sell and service many of them.
You continually post inaccurate comments about them.
Once again, do you have that list?????
CRICKETS>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>