We aren't going to make it much longer

[The Evil Twin]

You’re entitled to your opinion.

Uh....it's not just an opinion. Scientists do, in fact, lie. Not all of course. Politicians more so.

 

[jimh406]

You’re entitled to your opinion.

I don't think it's much of an opinion. Both sides have been caught in lies pretty recently. If you haven't seen both, you maybe should consider different sources.

 

[jyoutz]

Uh....it's not just an opinion. Scientists do, in fact, lie. Not all of course. Politicians more so.

Science has something called peer review for publications. This is a rigorous process that requires disclosure and peer review of methodology prior to publication. Professional journals don’t permit publication of papers without blind peer review from multiple parties. Makes it kinda hard to publish BS.

 

[jimh406]

Science has something called peer review for publications.

It's proven that "peers" have been censored. I put no weight behind any controversial topics that have been "peer" reviewed. When you only let one side talk, there will be no opposition to the proof.

It's totally good in theory. Where it fails is in practice.

Fwiw, we've seen examples of this recently with Covid. There was only one approved viewpoint up until recently. Now, we are finding out that the fringe theories from 2 years ago were right ... not just in this country, but others as well.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Not again please, Keep it civil ya all!

 

[jyoutz]

It's proven that "peers" have been censored. I put no weight behind any controversial topics that have been "peer" reviewed. When you only let one side talk, there will be no opposition to the proof.

It's totally good in theory. Where it fails is in practice.

Fwiw, we've seen examples of this recently with Covid. There was only one approved viewpoint up until recently. Now, we are finding out that the fringe theories from 2 years ago were right ... not just in this country, but others as well.

Science publications aren’t about “proof.” Science is about describing your study, methodologies, and findings. Nobody in science uses the term “proof.” Peer reviews critique the study parameters, methodologies, and results. I’m done with this explanation. You’re either trained in science, or you don’t understand.

 

[jimh406]

You’re either trained in science, or you don’t understand.

Frankly, "trained" seems to equal "indoctrinated". Most of us will never "understand" how the science could be so wrong, otherwise. It's pretty obvious more than science is involved. Well, unless you want to include political science.

 

[jyoutz]

Frankly, "trained" seems to equal "indoctrinated". Most of us will never "understand" how the science could be so wrong, otherwise. It's pretty obvious more than science is involved. Well, unless you want to include political science.

Like I began this discussion: you are entitled to your opinion. Education is a good thing. I’ve noticed that those who have avoided higher education tend to describe it as indoctrination. Fortunately a higher percentage of young people today see the value of higher education than previous generations.

 

[skeets]

OAC said we had 12 years left,,, but then back in the early 70s they said we were going to have another mini ice age, and life as we know it was going to end,, still waiting

 

[jyoutz]

OAC said we had 12 years left,,, but then back in the early 70s they said we were going to have another mini ice age, and life as we know it was going to end,, still waiting

Who is OAC? And what is their science credentials? 12 years left for what? I’m skeptical about what you’re saying.

 

[jimh406]

I’ve noticed that those who have avoided higher education tend to describe it as indoctrination.

I like how you assumed what my education level was to justify your position.

 

[jimh406]

Who is OAC? And what is their science credentials? 12 years left for what? I’m skeptical about what you’re saying.

I think he meant AOC.

'The world is going to end in 12 years if we don't address climate change,' Ocasio-Cortez says

The youngest woman ever elected to Congress said climate change is her generation's World War II.

www.usatoday.com

 

[jyoutz]

I think he meant AOC.

'The world is going to end in 12 years if we don't address climate change,' Ocasio-Cortez says

The youngest woman ever elected to Congress said climate change is her generation's World War II.

www.usatoday.com

Ok. No science credentials at all.

 

[jyoutz]

I like how you assumed what my education level was to justify your position.

I have never heard a college graduate refer to education as indoctrination. You might be the first I’ve heard that from.

 

[jimh406]

I have never heard a college graduate refer to education as indoctrination. You might be the first I’ve heard that from.

It’s not education per se that is the problem.

College/University used to be where people challenged the norms. Now, it’s the place that everyone has to agree. Today’s “education” is similar to what most would describe as the unenlightened times. The only difference is what people are allowed to believe. Both groups were sure they were right. They are just about 50 years apart.

 

[jyoutz]

It’s not education per se that is the problem.

College/University used to be where people challenged the norms. Now, it’s the place that everyone has to agree. Today’s “education” is similar to what most would describe as the unenlightened times. The only difference is what people are allowed to believe. Both groups were sure they were right. They are just about 50 years apart.

That’s not my experience with college. And although I graduated decades ago, and am involved with management, I also stay involved regularly with university professors and students doing studies. And I co- instruct short courses in my profession along with some university faculty. We teach forest ecology and management from a science and technology perspective. Nobody has to agree and we have lively discussions, just like we did decades ago. Science evolves as more studies are conducted. We know a lot more than we did decades ago, but the scientific method, teachings and class discussions go on as it did when I was a student. And I continue to learn, from both my peers and interactions with students. Never heard anyone refer to this as indoctrination unless they haven’t experienced it.

 

[jimh406]

Never heard anyone refer to this as indoctrination unless they haven’t experienced it.

I understand that you think that anyone with a different opinion must be wrong.

Maybe you missed that colleges are preventing dissenting opinions. That doesn’t mean it isn’t happening. It only means you need to change your information sources … if you care to know.

If the colleges/universities you are involved with allow dissenting opinions, that’s how it should be.

 

[jyoutz]

I understand that you think that anyone with a different opinion must be wrong.

Maybe you missed that colleges are preventing dissenting opinions. That doesn’t mean it isn’t happening. It only means you need to change your information sources … if you care to know.

If the colleges/universities you are involved with allow dissenting opinions, that’s how it should be.

Let me ask. Are you involved first hand with college instruction and studies, or do you just hear things? Lots of opinions are expressed in universities and they are respected, but someone who has a differing opinion on a math test is considered to be wrong. In the sciences, different perspectives are tested by the scientific method with rigorous studies, not by arguing opinions. Different perspectives are respected, but there is an expectation that there is some data to back up a hypothesis. If you are talking about soft sciences such as social sciences, then things get a bit more squishy and focused on opinions. I don’t live in that world.

 

[jimh406]

Are you involved first hand with college instruction and studies, or do you just hear things?

Are you involved first hand at every college or do you just hear things?

Seriously, we aren’t going to agree. Why don’t we just save ourselves time and quit?

 

[Mark_BX25D]

Science has something called peer review for publications. This is a rigorous process that requires disclosure and peer review of methodology prior to publication. Professional journals don’t permit publication of papers without blind peer review from multiple parties. Makes it kinda hard to publish BS.

You might find this interesting.