Trenching a drain

[D2Cat]

Have 5 acres with a house. The 4 acres outside the yard has water on it except in the heat of the summer. The neighbor has a pond that I am sure leaks and I dug a line between his pond and my property line 2 years ago trying to keep his water from coming over. It's still wet, so I decided to dig a ditch on my side and bury a tile there.

I moved my trencher over there to get ready for the work. I decided to dig a few feet to see how I might expect it to go. I worked the boom down to about 30" and proceeded about 60-70'. When I pulled the boom back up and shut the machine off there was absolutely no water in the ditch. The dirt was moist but not real wet.

The third day I came back to finish the ditch. The line I had left empty was filled to the top. We had no rain during that time. Here are some pictures.

Since I got the ditch dug we have had about 8" of rain (8 days time) and the ditch has been running since I finished.

So, since the trencher throws the crumbs out on both sides of the auger which will keep water from running in the ditch, is my neighbor's pond contributing, do I have a spring, or both?

 

[bearbait]

I take it that where the fence is that is your property line? How far away from where you dug the trench is your neighbours pond? Before the rain when the trench filled with water did you go talk to your neighbour to see if the water level had dropped in his pond? Sorry for all the questions just trying to get a mental picture as to what you have going on there. That is a lot of water and I'm thinking your neighbour would have noticed a drop in the water level of his pond. I take it his pond is lined and it is only feed from rain water?

 

[Newlyme]

On my property, (20 acres), where ever I dig a hole I get moist soil that day and full of water the next day. Even on the higher elevation by the barn.
When I put the foundations in for the three buildings by the barn I drilled 14 holes one day and put up the forms for the next days concrete pour. Got to the rental yard before they opened so I could get an early start on that days concrete work. Imagine my frustrations when I got ready to start and instead of mixing concrete I was baling water and having to do so carefully around the forms I spent hours setting up the day before.

P.S. My pond is about eight feet in elevation lower than the barn and three hundred feet away.

 

[skeets]

D2 I cant answer that question but I have kinda the same thing, as it turns out I live on a ridge, and under the dirt about 4 feet down is a large sand stone bowl, that is under the whole place water lays for days before it drys up. The point is, that you maybe sitting on top of a big hunk of bed rock, and there are spring on the place that maybe why you cant get rid of the water, also how is the guy next door filling his pond? Has the water been there before the pond, if you know that you might be able to get to the root of the problem. Wish I had an answer for you.
A thought , you might contact the county agent, and they might be able to do a dye test to see if the water is coming from his pond.

 

[CaveCreekRay]

Sure you didn't nick a "lost" water main?

If you dig a trench to remove water and you make water, I'd say you need a new trencher Len! How's a guy supposed to get any work done?

 

[bearbait]

D2 I cant answer that question but I have kinda the same thing, as it turns out I live on a ridge, and under the dirt about 4 feet down is a large sand stone bowl, that is under the whole place water lays for days before it drys up. The point is, that you maybe sitting on top of a big hunk of bed rock, and there are spring on the place that maybe why you cant get rid of the water, also how is the guy next door filling his pond? Has the water been there before the pond, if you know that you might be able to get to the root of the problem. Wish I had an answer for you.
A thought , you might contact the county agent, and they might be able to do a dye test to see if the water is coming from his pond.

Sounds like my kinda luck, when they were clearing my lot they tried to dig a well with the excavator, went down 25ft or so in 5 different places so, drier than a popcorn fart. After finishing my lot they started on my road to join up with the crown land road, just 30 yards or so on the way out they hit water only down 5ft which would have saved me 10 grand. I could fall into a barrel of titties and come out sucking my own thumb my luck is that bad.

 

[D2Cat]

The first picture is the water that accumulated during the first two days of it being dug and setting. (I don't know why the pictures are sideways. The only thing that changed in my technique is I now have Windows 10 instead of 7).

The third picture shows the crumbs through the trench the day I was digging. You can see the 60-70' of fairly dry, then the mud I dug out, then back to fairly dry dirt. I didn't pump the water, just dug!!

The picture showing where I was going to show weeds on the other side of the fence. That is the neighbor's property and the weeds are there because I dug a "ditch" for him there and he never bought any drain tile to put in, so it's open and he unable to cross it to mow. He mows up to it. That ditch on his property starts at the base of the side of his pond about 10' from my fence (literally 6-8' from where the slope starts up) and runs parallel to this trench I dug on my property.

We bought this property 4 years ago from the son who is retired so he never lived there, his mother has Alzheimers, and can't help with thing of the past. So we bought it "as is".

The neighbors pond is never dry. It's not a large pond, maybe 200' in dia.

Here's a couple of more pictures showing the water that was setting on the ground when I dug. The rule of trenching is if you grab a handful of dirt, make a fist, open your hand and let it fall out, it should not be stuck together when it hits the ground! I violated that rule. After I hit water my intention was to dig with the hoe, but I just slowed down and mudded my way through. My trencher has flotation tires or it would have been a problem getting through some of the spots.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

re: sideways pictures are caused by NOT having 'lock orientation' set on your smartphone, has nothing to do with Windows OS.
I see this more and more as peopleuse 'smart' devices as cameras.

 

[bearbait]

The first picture is the water that accumulated during the first two days of it being dug and setting. (I don't know why the pictures are sideways. The only thing that changed in my technique is I now have Windows 10 instead of 7).

The third picture shows the crumbs through the trench the day I was digging. You can see the 60-70' of fairly dry, then the mud I dug out, then back to fairly dry dirt. I didn't pump the water, just dug!!

The picture showing where I was going to show weeds on the other side of the fence. That is the neighbor's property and the weeds are there because I dug a "ditch" for him there and he never bought any drain tile to put in, so it's open and he unable to cross it to mow. He mows up to it. That ditch on his property starts at the base of the side of his pond about 10' from my fence (literally 6-8' from where the slope starts up) and runs parallel to this trench I dug on my property.

We bought this property 4 years ago from the son who is retired so he never lived there, his mother has Alzheimers, and can't help with thing of the past. So we bought it "as is".

The neighbors pond is never dry. It's not a large pond, maybe 200' in dia.

Here's a couple of more pictures showing the water that was setting on the ground when I dug. The rule of trenching is if you grab a handful of dirt, make a fist, open your hand and let it fall out, it should not be stuck together when it hits the ground! I violated that rule. After I hit water my intention was to dig with the hoe, but I just slowed down and mudded my way through. My trencher has flotation tires or it would have been a problem getting through some of the spots.

I'm no expert by any means but I'm guessing you are into a spring kinda like our artesian well we have here only we had to go down 225ft in order to hit it, but it does pump out 5 gallons a minute through the overflow. Did you try digging a couple test holes further back away from where you trenched just to see?

 

[SidecarFlip]

I believe you only issue is a high water table from saturated ground and nothing more.

 

[D2Cat]

When I dug the first section I kind of expected to find moisture at the bottom wanting to move, but it was dry at that time. In the second set of pictures water was setting on the ground and as I moved forward with the trencher I could see water moving away from the tires like pushing on a sponge. I think there has to be a spring there somewhere.

I think I will leave the think alone until about Aug. then see if it's still flowing. I'll clean it up some and put a tile in with rock on top.

When I dug the ditch for the neighbor I started on the South West edge of his pond which is 20' North of where I started on my side. I dug 100' East, then started curving to the North. I was using my hoe there. I got bogged down, I mean stuck, like all the way to the frame everywhere. Had to have my neighbor come pull me out with his M9540. Only time I've EVER been stuck with that trencher!

Here's a picture of the ditch I dug for the neighbor. The fence to the right is the fence I am digging near on my property.

 

[bearbait]

When I dug the first section I kind of expected to find moisture at the bottom wanting to move, but it was dry at that time. In the second set of pictures water was setting on the ground and as I moved forward with the trencher I could see water moving away from the tires like pushing on a sponge. I think there has to be a spring there somewhere.

I think I will leave the think alone until about Aug. then see if it's still flowing. I'll clean it up some and put a tile in with rock on top.

When I dug the ditch for the neighbor I started on the South West edge of his pond which is 20' North of where I started on my side. I dug 100' East, then started curving to the North. I was using my hoe there. I got bogged down, I mean stuck, like all the way to the frame everywhere. Had to have my neighbor come pull me out with his M9540. Only time I've EVER been stuck with that trencher!
Here's a picture of the ditch I dug for the neighbor. The fence to the right is the fence I am digging near on my property.

Man that is a lot of water. You really don't have much choice but to wait. Just make sure before you divert the water that it's not going to cause a neighbour problems or that could open up a whole new problem much bigger than you have right now. Good luck with whatever you do and keep us informed.

 

[SidecarFlip]

One thing for certain and that is, I prefer a trencher over a backhoe any day for water / electrical / or gas lines. and I prefer renting them from Black Swamp Rental by the day.

 

[D2Cat]

Flip, I prefer owning. Then my pace is whatever I choose and not concerned about being in a hurry to return it.

 

[skeets]

Do you have an auger that can go down say 100 feet,,, drill it and SHOOT

Way back in the day I knew a small mine that had more water problems than enough.They had pumps all over the place trying to get enough water out so they could mine,, they never had a dust problem I can tell you that,,lol..

Anyway someone drilled a water well from the surface and by golly punched in to that mine, and continued to drill down another 100 feet or so, and before they could get pipe into the hole, the operator came in and somehow lost a case of Tovex and primers down the hole and it went off... 3 days later the water was all gone but for a few drippers . Of course the outlaw mine under this one suddenly had a water problem,,, go figure

 

[bearbait]

Skeets you crazy bugger you have more story's than anyone I know, lol. Your kids and grand kids must have loved sitting around listening to you tell them. You never fail to crack me up my friend.

 

[RCW]

'Cat -

Since there's a permanent sustaining pond nearby, obviously there's water around.

One thing really caught my eye in your first post picture #3. See the grey streak in your ditch? (I'm hoping to attach rotated) There's some nice looking dark brown and red soil on either side of that grey streak.

Red and brown soils can mean there's enough oxygen to keep the soil's iron oxidized...meaning isn't water-logged. The grey color can be reduced iron, since there's no oxygen...meaning water logged.

Grey streak can also be a clay streak....

Either can be an indication of a wet "seam," maybe a spring, or something else, but it's wet...

Can't tell elevations from your picture, but is it plausible that "grey" spot essentially filled the rest of your ditch?

Trust me, my Soil Science classes were MANY years ago, so I offer with no warranty. I dealt with a lot of household sewage systems since, and that spot would cause me concern if I was looking to put a system right there and came across a big variation in the color of the subsoil.

Just wanted to offer my humble opinions...for all I know, it might just be drier than the other segments...but it looked different enough I wanted to point it out... Thought if I could be of help, I'd try....

Best wishes.

 

[D2Cat]

RCW, the difference in soil color is caused by all the water that filled the trench from the time I started until I came back to finish. You can see in the first picture the trench is full. I just put the boom in and started digging....sling mud out as the water was mixing with the soil.

The trench is about 320' long and drops 13' in that distance. I had contacted the local soil Conservation Technician from the Ag. Natural Resources Conservation Service when I dig the trench on the neighbor's property. He came out and inspected to lay of the land the pond, past notes and maps and approved of the proposed method of draining the water.

Our property is on the North West corner of crossing country roads, so the water dumps into a road ditch with his approval.

I'm thinking the soil is saturated from all the winter snow, and Spring rains. But there almost has to be a spring in there somewhere. I got some information from a nearby neighbor that another neighbor use to put a couple of calves in there, and he also hayed it at times. I will try to get with him and see if he recalls similar wet times.

 

[RCW]

'Cat - - gotcha. Betting you're right; there is a spring or springs somewhere.

While it's tough to tell from a couple pictures, my thought was that grey-colored spot might be it....

In the end, a drain to daylight will help greatly.

I'm dealing with a similar thing here over just 80 or 100', and I'm not asking for anyone's approval to run it to the road ditch...

Good luck!