TRAILER SAFETY CHAINS

[McMXi]

She says the chains broke. The trailer hitch was 'worn' out. Total lack of maintenance.
100 % operator error.

So you know that the chains broke due to "total lack of maintenance"?

 

[McMXi]

Like she said, "stuff happens". If they were crossed and the cradle caught the tongue before hitting the ground, would the chains have still broke? Most likely not, but the tongue hitting ground and getting caught on an irregularity in the surface is most likely the jolting force that broke the chains.
I agree with you that pole vaulting trailers are not abundant, but the tongue catching with enough force to brake chains is a mathematical likelihood. The weight of the tongue being caught by the crossed chains cradling it being enough force to break the chains is only possible if the chains are already damaged or they were inappropriate chains to begin with.
I've still not seen anything or heard any argument as to why uncrossed chains are an advantage.

Why do only three states stipulate that the chains must be crossed if it's such a simple and obvious thing to do?

As I said, I'm all for chains just as I'm all for seat belts, but I'm not going to do something just because someone who hasn't ever practiced independent thought tells me to do so.

 

[Biker1mike]

In NY this is a very easy choice. The law says the chains must be crossed.
I do not have aa WD hitch so I do not care about that.

 

[McMXi]

I agree with you that pole vaulting trailers are not abundant, but the tongue catching with enough force to brake chains is a mathematical likelihood.

Really? How about showing the math? This reminds me of "it's simple physics". This is the sort of thing thrown around to give the impression of understanding something without actually being able to do it. If I went to a meeting and told the director of engineering that we don't need to test a firearm because failure "isn't a mathematical likelihood" I'd be out of a job.

We ACTUALLY do the math, AND test!

 

[McMXi]

In NY this is a very easy choice. The law says the chains must be crossed.
I do not have aa WD hitch so I do not care about that.

OK, so you cross the chains to comply with state law. That makes sense.

I'll be towing the M6060 from WY to MT next week and neither state requires chains to be crossed so I won't do that. I will however have the Curt weight distributing hitch installed.

 

[Freeheeler]

Why do only three states stipulate that the chains must be crossed if it's such a simple and obvious thing to do?

As I said, I'm all for chains just as I'm all for seat belts, but I'm not going to do something just because someone who hasn't ever practiced independent thought tells me to do so.

Which independent thinker told you that uncrossed chains was the way to go?
I'm not telling you do something. You stated you already hook up your chains. I'm just stating that there is no advantage to hooking them up parallel vs crossed, and that there are advantages to crossing them. No extra time, no extra effort, just advantages. What I hear from you is that you don't like cost free safety advantages because you are an independent thinker. That's fine, I just don't understand it.
I hope it never makes a difference one way or the other for either of us.

 

[Biker1mike]

So you know that the chains broke due to "total lack of maintenance"?

I made an assumption based on the vid. Blow it up and take a look at the chain.

 

[McMXi]

Which independent thinker told you that uncrossed chains was the way to go?
I'm not telling you do something. You stated you already hook up your chains. I'm just stating that there is no advantage to hooking them up parallel vs crossed, and that there are advantages to crossing them. No extra time, no extra effort, just advantages. What I hear from you is that you don't like cost free safety advantages because you are an independent thinker. That's fine, I just don't understand it.
I hope it never makes a difference one way or the other for either of us.

Look, I learn something almost every day whether it's through work, from a forum, completing projects, being on the tractor etc., but I detest dogma of any sort. I agree 100% that there's no difference in time or effort crossing chains vs. not crossing them, but it's about the principle of inherited stupidity.

I remember when the VP of sales at Kimber (Ryan Busse) called the office on a Friday afternoon six years ago or thereabouts asking the sales team (not me) to get to him South of Kalispell. His travel trailer had decoupled from the ball and crossed over the median and then two lanes of traffic moving in the opposite direction. Not only did he not hook up the trailer coupler/ball properly, he didn't have the chains connected. That was unacceptable, incompetent, stupid and potentially lethal. It's this sort of incompetence, ignorance or stupidy that causes accidents and gets people killed. Not whether or not the chains are crossed.

 

[Freeheeler]

Really? How about showing the math? This reminds me of "it's simple physics".

It is actually pretty simple physics.
As simple question. Which takes more force, dragging a trailer with the tongue dragging the pavement, or dragging a trailer with only the tires contacting the pavement?

 

[Freeheeler]

Look, I learn something almost every day whether it's through work, from a forum, completing projects, being on the tractor etc., but I detest dogma of any sort. I agree 100% that there's no difference in time or effort crossing chains vs. not crossing them, but it's about the principle of inherited stupidity.

To me, a good definition of inherent stupidity would be to not take advantage of added safety from no extra time or effort. I seriously doubt that if you cross them that anyone will ever call you a sheep.

 

[McMXi]

It is actually pretty simple physics.
As simple question. Which takes more force, dragging a trailer with the tongue dragging the pavement, or dragging a trailer with only the tires contacting the pavement?

It's not simple physics. It's complicated physics and math actually but it's easy to say it's easy physics. There are a lot of parts that would subjected to different static and dynamic forces and there are different material properties involved.

 

[McMXi]

To me, a good definition of inherent stupidity would be to not take advantage of added safety from no extra time or effort. I seriously doubt that if you cross them that anyone will ever call you a sheep.

But if the advantage is unproven it's dogma.

Why don't 47 other states or even half of the states have crossed chains as a requirement? If it's that proven then why not?

This has been fun and I wish everyone safe towing. I know I'll be at my most attentive during the 600 mile drive back to MT with a very precious cargo. Good luck to all.

 

[Freeheeler]

It's not simple physics. It's complicated physics and math actually but it's easy to say it's easy physics. There are a lot of parts that would subjected to different static and dynamic forces and there are different material properties involved.

Same trailer, same tow vehicle, same chains, same speed, same pavement, same relative humidity, same atmospheric pressure, same day of the week ... the force exerted on the chains will always be more with the tongue dragging the pavement vs suspended in a cradle.

 

[fried1765]

https://fifthwheelst.com/documents/safety/Safety-Chain-Requirement.pdf

Only three states i.e. New York, Pennsylvania and Texas require chains to be crossed. Not even California, the most regulated state in the country has such a requirment.

So...... just why would three states require that chains be crossed?
Mostly, easily duped, stupid people, in those states?
Crossing trailer hitch chains is just an urban legend?

It is not all about "a requirement"!
It IS all about logic and common sense!

 

[Freeheeler]

This has been fun and I wish everyone safe towing. I know I'll be at my most attentive during the 600 mile drive back to MT with a very precious cargo. Good luck to all.

Yep, all in good fun and education. Lunch break is over, gotta get back to seeing patients.
Have safe travels and BTW, I love my Kimber.

 

[fried1765]

here in Ontario only ONE safety chain or cable is required..according to the regs I got last week from teh MTO

 

[fried1765]

Why do only three states stipulate that the chains must be crossed if it's such a simple and obvious thing to do?

As I said, I'm all for chains just as I'm all for seat belts, but I'm not going to do something just because someone who hasn't ever practiced independent thought tells me to do so.

 

[fried1765]

"Simple and obvious" are not quite the correct words!
Simple and logical!

 

[Biker1mike]

Since 2019 I no longer get paid to do math or physics. I'll leave with this.

Sticks and stones
may break my bones
but
whips and CHAINS
Excite me

 

[Freeheeler]

Since 2019 I no longer get paid to do math or physics. I'll leave with this.

Sticks and stones
may break my bones
but
whips and CHAINS
Excite me

So, whips ... crossed or not ??