Six more HP from the same engine?

[McMXi]

Now you’re just being argumentive. The “short block” is not the same base-engine as a “long block”. The short block is only the block, crank, and lower-end…..the Long block offers all kinds of differences depending upon which heads are installed.

Very simply, a completely assembled base engine can have its top RPM, fuel-system, and/oir induction systems modified to produce different outputs.

I'm well aware as to the differences between a short block and long block, and also aware of the different ways that engines can achieve power. You can call a turbo an accessory all day long but it doesn't mean it's an accurate description.

What's interesting is that you're arguing the case for another member who has already stated that they weren't aware of the differences between Ford's 6.7 and 6.7 HO engines when they stated that they were the same engine. They were ok with learning something new. Arguing as to what you "think" the other member meant though, even after they had replied to my post seems to me that you're the one being argumentative. No shocker there though.

 

[jimh406]

For a lot of engines, you can get a lot more power with tuning. However, there are other options including turbo or not, and increasing the boost pressure if it's a turbo.

Car manufacturers have started selling OEM tunes to have more HP for gasoline engines as well.

At some point, maybe we'll have the freedom that Canadians have regarding tuning.

 

[jyoutz]

For a lot of engines, you can get a lot more power with tuning. However, there are other options including turbo or not, and increasing the boost pressure if it's a turbo.

Car manufacturers have started selling OEM tunes to have more HP for gasoline engines as well.

At some point, maybe we'll have the freedom that Canadians have regarding tuning.

Everyone I know that messes with diesel tuning on their truck ends up with burnt pistons of some other engine failure down the road. Engine components are a system designed to work with the designed tuning.

 

[JasonW]

Everyone I know that messes with diesel tuning on their truck ends up with burnt pistons of some other engine failure down the road. Engine components are a system designed to work with the designed tuning.

Just for reference what engines are you talking about?
With any tuning or modifications to add power you need to monitor EGT temps. Keep your foot to the floor uphill towing and something will melt. I’ve had modified diesels for over a decade and never had an issue.

Some tuning on electronically controlled diesels will defuel if EGTs reach a certain threshold through the ECU. Even factory tuning.

 

[whatsupdoc]

The point I was trying to make is that on The L3302 and The L3902 there appears
to be zero engine differences, every part is the same including the engine CPU
so you are paying a few thousand dollars for an injector dwell timing difference.

 

[JasonW]

The point I was trying to make is that on The L3302 and The L3902 there appears
to be zero engine differences, every part is the same including the engine CPU
so you are paying a few thousand dollars for an injector dwell timing difference.

Basically yes. More HP more $$

 

[jyoutz]

Just for reference what engines are you talking about?
With any tuning or modifications to add power you need to monitor EGT temps. Keep your foot to the floor uphill towing and something will melt. I’ve had modified diesels for over a decade and never had an issue.

Some tuning on electronically controlled diesels will defuel if EGTs reach a certain threshold through the ECU. Even factory tuning.

Many of the Dodge Cummins and Ford Powerstrokes.

 

[jimh406]

Many of the Dodge Cummins and Ford Powerstrokes.

Tuners usually come with several tunes from mild to wild. Some tunes focus on emissions/mpg and make the trucks more reliable.

On the other hand, the other tunes can cause damage, but most of those people would destroy an untuned truck.

 

[GeoHorn]

I'm well aware as to the differences between a short block and long block, and also aware of the different ways that engines can achieve power. You can call a turbo an accessory all day long but it doesn't mean it's an accurate description.

What's interesting is that you're arguing the case for another member who has already stated that they weren't aware of the differences between Ford's 6.7 and 6.7 HO engines when they stated that they were the same engine. They were ok with learning something new. Arguing as to what you "think" the other member meant though, even after they had replied to my post seems to me that you're the one being argumentative. No shocker there though.

I”m not arguing a case for any other person. I was discussing the difference between Your definition of “basic-engine” (which appears to include any/all accys)…and what I believe to be the industry-standard basic-engine which does not.

 

[McMXi]

I”m not arguing a case for any other person. I was discussing the difference between Your definition of “basic-engine” (which appears to include any/all accys)…and what I believe to be the industry-standard basic-engine which does not.

Read what @John D 2 stated:

"My 2020 F250 Powerstroke diesel engine is rated at 475 HP/1050 Torque.

There is an option for a high out version rated at 500 HP/1200Torque.

Exact same engine just tuned differently."

I was simply making the point that it's not just a different program in the ECU that differentiates what shows up under the hood when you buy a 6.7L Ford Super Duty or a 6.7L HO Super Duty (which I have). The differences I know about are the water cooled turbo and exhaust manifold. There could well be other differences that the masses (myself included) are not aware of, and that Ford engineers or technicians know about.

This is different to comparing an M6060 and M7060 where the only difference is the program in the ECU. I asked Reimer Tuning why they don't offer a program for the M6060 that makes it perform like an M7060 and their answer is that they could, but that they simply follow Kubota's approach of delineating between models i.e. they add 12hp to the factory base hp.

We can argue all day long as to what anyone means when they say "exact same engine", but it doesn't add anything but noise to this thread. To me, if you have to swap out parts in order to match performance then it's not the "exact same engine". You have your own definition, I have mine. Let's move on.

 

[GeoHorn]

You may wish to “move on” and I’m not particularly trying to avoid doing so… but I think communication is important.
I think you were thinking of an engine “Installation” when you read “exact same engine”.

My first response was delineating the difference between the base engine and the “ engine-installation” …which would include accessories… which you evidently did not think of as separate components.

I was trying to be helpful so that we could discuss subjects accurately …. and that would require we be using the same vocabulary. That is all I meant.

I’ll leave the subject alone now.
Kind regards,
gh

 

[McMXi]

Everyone I know that messes with diesel tuning on their truck ends up with burnt pistons of some other engine failure down the road. Engine components are a system designed to work with the designed tuning.

You must not know many people then. There are tens of thousands of diesel engines on the road running chips and or programmers with no such problems. A good friend in Hawaii owns a recovery company running millions of dollars worth of equipment. He has everything upgraded and not a problem to report, but then again, he's not a clueless muppet.

I have close to 100,000 miles on my F-250 running a DP-Tuner chip and program with no problems at all. Paying attention to EGTs is critical and paying attention to transmission temperatures is critical. I have pre and post turbo thermocouples that I installed in my F-250, and if EGTs start to creep up I'll drop down a gear and all is good.

I would like to add a thermocouple or two (with gauge) to my F-450 at some point but more so that I can see what's going on. I have no plans to run a chip or programmer since factory power is freakin' amazing. However, I would be ok if the DPF, DEF and EGR systems got stolen at some point.

 

[McMXi]

The point I was trying to make is that on The L3302 and The L3902 there appears
to be zero engine differences, every part is the same including the engine CPU
so you are paying a few thousand dollars for an injector dwell timing difference.

The engines, turbos, intakes, exhaust manifolds, DPF and exhausts pipes in the M6060 and M7060 are the same. If you price an M6060 and M7060 with the same transmission and wheels/tires there's a $2k difference, and so all of that extra $2k is going to the additional 7.5 hp/8 hp @ PTO which is about what you'll pay for a programmer and file to upgrade M6060 output to a little over the M7060.

Reimer Tuning in Canada offers a +20% hp upgrade for the M6060 and +18% hp for the M7060. I asked them if they could upgrade the M6060 to the same output as an upgraded M7060 and they said that they can. So basically it's a marketing ploy or trick to delineate between two models of tractor that only differ by the file that's written to the ECU. In fairness to Kubota though, the M7060 offers quite a few more features not available in the M6060 such as the F12/R12 transmission, electronic 4WD, hydraulic brakes, higher hydraulic oil flow rate, etc. If ordering an M6060/M7060 I don't see why anyone would choose the M6060. It's not much of a jump to a fully loaded M7060.

 

[McMXi]

Everyone I know that messes with diesel tuning on their truck ends up with burnt pistons of some other engine failure down the road. Engine components are a system designed to work with the designed tuning.

Let's not forget that many tractors are being "muzzled" to avoid putting them into a category that requires either DPF or DPF/DEF. This is certainly the case for the M6060/M7060/M4 with the engines being capable of safely producing more power but it's capped at around 73hp to stay under the DEF requirement.