Ran tractor out of oil, need to pull the engine

Tx Jim

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I've lived here all my life but it's got way too populated with citidiots to my way of thinking
 

SumoChas

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We were finally able to split the tractor and remove the engine over the last weekend. With a hydraulic jack on both the front and the back half we were able to slowly separate the two. Going back together will he a whole different hurdle which we'll cross in time.

IMG_0350.jpg


I didn't get any pictures of the actual lift because it was a bit intense and forgot to snap some. We had a great neighbor with another Kubota use his front end loader to get our engine out and onto a frame and pallet that we put together so it wouldn't just sit on the aluminum sump. I cut an easy little bracket to go on the front bolts that Kubota says to lift from. The back of the engine I just bolted a chain directly to the flywheel housing. It wasn't perfectly level by any means, but it got the job done.

Here's the split tractor, and probably how it will remain for quite a while:

IMG_0351.jpg


The engine is now in a better place where I have access to all of my tools. I'm now in the process of fabricating an engine stand out of steel. I promise it won't be pretty, but it'll get the job done. Until then, the engine will sit on it's wooden cradle we made for transport.

IMG_0355.jpg


I'll continue to update this thread as progress is made, but as I've said plenty before, this will be a long process so updates will be slow.
 

Nicfin36

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Good luck man. I have been following your thread and will be glad to see when you get it all sorted out.

Thanks for posting the pictures of your progress. I know it is unfortunate for you, but I find it educational and amazed at what you have accomplished.
 
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SumoChas

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Good luck man. I have been following your thread and will be glad to see when you get it all sorted out.

Thanks for posting the pictures of your progress. I know it is unfortunate for you, but I find it educational and amazed at what you have accomplished.
Thanks Nicfin! I've always enjoyed going through posts like these on forums, and decided this would be the perfect time to try and make one of my own. I'm sure many people on here could do this over a weekend or two, but I do enjoy the challenge even if it is a bigger one than I would've chosen! Maybe down the line I'll be able to help others out who are doing this sort of repair for the first time.

Cheers!
 
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BAP

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With a nice looking shop like that, why didn’t you haul the tractor back to it to work on it?
 

SumoChas

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With a nice looking shop like that, why didn’t you haul the tractor back to it to work on it?
Thanks, but it's not my shop. The full tractor would have taken up too much space for far too long for me to want to leave it there.
 

BAP

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Thanks, but it's not my shop. The full tractor would have taken up too much space for far too long for me to want to leave it there.
Ok makes sense
 

Mudball

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Awesome clear pictures w/descriptions, thanks for taking the extra time to do that. You seem to have a "can do" attitude, so it seems ironic that you have a picture of Squidward, rather than Spongebob, Lol. Hope all continues to go well
 

SumoChas

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I'm not sure what update this is...maybe 3 or 4? I finally had a chance to build an engine stand and then tear down the engine to get the crankshaft out. The damage is worse than I anticipated, but should be fixable.

First off, I took some scrap metal and welded up an engine stand (designing and building this stand honestly took longer than taking apart the engine). I wanted to be able to get the sump off without having to re-lift the engine. There are 2 screws in the sump near the oil pickup which are longer than all the others. When I had the engine in the air before setting it down on the stand I went ahead and removed those 2 bolts so I didn't have to build the stand 2 feet off the table.

IMG_0388.jpg


Now came time to start tearing down the engine. Fortunately, the Japanese really know how to make things simple and efficient. Basically using 12mm, 14mm, and 17mm sockets and wrenches I was able to get the crankshaft out (Probably a few 10mm's thrown in). I was really worried about re-timing the engine when it all goes back together, but they stamped every gear with the correct timing mark.

IMG_0407.jpg


Just like I saw before, all the connecting rod bearings were spotless. Something else interesting to note is the design of the pistons. Most diesel engines are dished and have a point for compression combustion to start, but I didn't know an off-center dish recessed into the piston was a thing until now. Pretty cool design, which I'm sure is emissions related.

IMG_0409.jpg


The pistons all came out without issue, and as stated in earlier posts, the bearings (both big and small-end) were in great shape. By this point, after removing the timing gear set, camshaft, and balance shafts, I was wondering if I was ever going to find the source of the metal and babbit in the sump.

The only problem I ran into during disassembly was figuring out a puller long enough to get the timing gear removed from the front of the crankshaft. I ended up using a bearing splitter? around the crankshaft and then threaded 2 screws in to act as jacking screws (sorry, no picture of this), I had some 1/4" steel that I put behind the jacking screws so I didn't damage the engine block. The gear came right off with such little force that I probably could've pulled it off on my own hah! :D Oh well, it still did the job.

IMG_0410.jpg


On to the crankshaft removal and finally finding the source of the engine knock!

After removing the rear main seal holder (rear bearing holder?) and unbolting the 3 main bearing cap bolts I was finally able to remove the crankshaft. I started taking off the main bearing holders one by one and finally got some carnage on #'s 3 and 4.

The first main bearing wasn't horrible, but not what you want to see when looking at main bearings. Some scoring on the front part of the bearing surface and crank.


IMG_0424.jpg

IMG_0422.jpg


The second main bearing was spotless, in fact, it was so spotless that I never took a picture of it on its own! Very strange, but guess it had enough oil to not hurt itself. I wish all the others treated themselves the same as #2 :)

Main bearings #3 and #4 are where the carnage starts. #3 was obviously spun on the crank and caused some damage to the bearing surface and crankshaft. It looks to me like the bearing holder is still OK, despite some evidence of heat due to the blueing. In the picture below you can see bearing #2 on the right (no issues at all), and bearing #3 on the left (with the housing showing some heat marks)
IMG_0425.jpg


Here is #3 by itself:
IMG_0423.jpg


Now on to bearing #4, which also houses the thrust bearings. This thing was the cause of most of the carnage. The bearing had spun, and also began taking out metal from the bearing housing. This could very well have been from me running the tractor again to get the front end loader off, but I suspect the vast majority of the damage was done during the initial no-oil fault. You can still see some metal debris on the thrust surface that I didn't clean off, as well as the blueing from heat (which I cant ever clean off!)

IMG_0427.jpg

Above is main bearing #4's holder, below is main bearing #4's crank journal...ouch...
IMG_0426.jpg


Due to the amount of crankshaft damage, I'm currently in touch with some machine shops in my area that do re-surfacing jobs. I suspect I'll end up running oversized main bearings certainly on #3 and #4, and possibly on #1. I'm also going to replace main bearing #4's holder due to the amount of metal removed from it spinning. #3's holder is dis-colored, but doesn't appear to have lost any metal. #4's is toast.

As I've said through most of my posts, updates will be in-frequent, but I hope some people reading this are getting some enjoyment/knowledge out of it. I'm always happy to answer questions, or at least to tell you I don't know! The engine is probably going to sit until I'm able to get the crankshaft re-surfaced so it will be another month or more before any updates are made.

Thanks so much for reading!
 
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SumoChas

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Awesome clear pictures w/descriptions, thanks for taking the extra time to do that. You seem to have a "can do" attitude, so it seems ironic that you have a picture of Squidward, rather than Spongebob, Lol. Hope all continues to go well
Mudball, I'm just now seeing your comment. Thanks for the encouraging words!
 
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Jim L.

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Thanks for posting the pictures and commentary on your engine project. Wishing you good luck and success!
 
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BAP

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Great pictures and updates. Too bad for all the damage, but at least now you know what you need to do and can move forward getting everything fixed and back going. Good Luck
 
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Bmyers

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I wish I had your skill. I can use a tractor and complete minor repairs, but have no where near your ability. Thanks for sharing the great pictures and the story. I'm looking forward to finally seeing the completed project.
 
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Henro

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I wish I had your skill. I can use a tractor and complete minor repairs, but have no where near your ability. Thanks for sharing the great pictures and the story. I'm looking forward to finally seeing the completed project.
Great job on this thread! I want to say I am enjoying following your progress, but some how that does not sound like the best word to use in this case...

One novice question. I remember reading that at least some Kubota engines require the pistons to be put back in the same cylinders they came out of. Do not remember why. Is this a concern with your engine, and did you note which cylinders the pistons came out of?

Keep up the great reports of your progress. They are very good.
 

GeoHorn

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Replacing the #4 Caps/holder.... do you suppose you’re going to have to line-bore the assembly?
 

SumoChas

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Texas
Great job on this thread! I want to say I am enjoying following your progress, but some how that does not sound like the best word to use in this case...

One novice question. I remember reading that at least some Kubota engines require the pistons to be put back in the same cylinders they came out of. Do not remember why. Is this a concern with your engine, and did you note which cylinders the pistons came out of?

Keep up the great reports of your progress. They are very good.
Henro, thanks a bunch I'm glad you are getting some enjoyment out of this. Believe it or not, I am too!

Yes it is important to keep the same pistons with the same cylinders, primarily if there isn't going to be any honing or ring replacement. If I were replacing all the piston rings and also re-honing the cylinders and also replacing all the rod bearings it wouldn't matter where the pistons went. Since I'm not replacing the piston rings or doing any cylinder work I'll be sure to put the same piston and rods back into the same cylinder.

The piston rings wear themselves into their dedicated cylinder, creating a good sealing fit which will minimize oil consumption as well as combustion blow-by. If I were to switch up pistons into different cylinders the engine would consume more oil and the rings could possibly never fully seat themselves with the cylinder.

Here are my marked pistons:
IMG_0429.jpg
 
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SumoChas

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Replacing the #4 Caps/holder.... do you suppose you’re going to have to line-bore the assembly?
Good question.

I was under the impression that by having the dedicated bearing caps/holders which are not machined into the block (like you would find on a car engine), I can get away with not worrying about any sort of line boring. Since the physical engine block isn't damaged or worn, I can get away with just replacing the bearing holder (assuming the tolerances from the factory are good enough), which will still be held in the same position inside the block.

If you have another view or idea please let me know.
 

GeoHorn

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Good question.

I was under the impression that by having the dedicated bearing caps/holders which are not machined into the block (like you would find on a car engine), I can get away with not worrying about any sort of line boring. Since the physical engine block isn't damaged or worn, I can get away with just replacing the bearing holder (assuming the tolerances from the factory are good enough), which will still be held in the same position inside the block.

If you have another view or idea please let me know.
Besides careful comparison of the new vs old caps/holders... you might use plastigage in an “off-purpose” technique. By that, I mean if you install all-new main bearings, you might use plastigage to confirm no excessive/comparative differences between the fitment of the 4 holders. ???
 
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SumoChas

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Besides careful comparison of the new vs old caps/holders... you might use plastigage in an “off-purpose” technique. By that, I mean if you install all-new main bearings, you might use plastigage to confirm no excessive/comparative differences between the fitment of the 4 holders. ???
Good idea. I'll plastigauge it before final assembly. Heading to the machine shop on Monday with the crank