I know this has been kicked around before, and I have gotten some negitave comments about them for people I asked,, I would like some one that has one and uses one to chime in here. One fellow said it tears up the motor why put all the strain on it and you will run the hours up, which I dont understand cause diesels are designed to run long term, and another said to get one even if its to big because you will only generate what your PTO can deliver and the mass of a larger unit will help compinsate for surges. Both dealers both Butoa, so can someone give me the real story, the old debilvius gen is getting a little long in the tooth and if I can get rid of one more motor to worry about grand. Some one give me the real answer,, and yes I do use a gen set, last winter for 6 days in a row the winter before during the big snow allmost for 13days.
PTO Generators
- Thread starter skeets
- Start date
Maybe some of the following will provide insight into the wonderful world of generators.
Years ago we had what turned out to be the first of a series of bad ice storms and were down for 17-days. The first time we burned out two not-so-small intermittent-rated camping-style generators. After that we started educating ourselves.
Part of the process we've undertaken is to do installs for others in our area and for small rural volunteer fire departments. We've expanded to doing consulting engineering design for small commercial / office units (spouse and I are both afflicted with that type background). We can and have done it all but have lately drifted away from the installation side.
For our own use we run as primary a prime-rated 45-KW (45-KVA; 45,000-watt) 3-phase powered by a 300-CI Ford 6-cyl on liquid propane along with multiple different slightly smaller backup sets. We will not again be without power. The 3-ph may not apply in most residential applications but we use it for machine tools. And we keep a huge supply of propane on hand valved off ready to go just as cheap insurance. Test runs are from small (250-gal) tanks.
Be cautious of wiring both 3-ph and single-phase off same machine. Get professional help or get smart fast before killing your system. We tap both single and 3-ph off the same outputs and run into different load-wire systems. Nothing magic just keep them straight. Not all 3-ph machines can do this long-term; some require switching (either output not both---inconvenient during storm if you need to keep house up and be in shop fabricating a broke something to get a piece of eqpt running).
Virtually all our installs have been stand-alone units fueled by liquid propane. Easy fuel storage is the primary reason. Liquid verses vapor due to size of fuel delivery line to engine over any significant distance. Pretty easy to convert a gasoline engine to liquid propane. See CarbTurbo.Com: good knowledgeable people.
We're way rural and for that reason suggest propane. If you have access to natural gas then go that way. Chances are the pipeline network will stay up---unless you worry about quakes or floods. If enough pipeline compressors go down for any reason or if your neighborhood is isolated by the nat gas supply company (loss of compression capability or open valves due to catastrophe) you lose fuel supply.
Fuel management is the biggest problem with running diesel or gasoline units regardless of stand-alone or PTO. With the grid down how will you get more fuel, manage its safe storage, pump it off, generally handle it? Remember we're talking potentially a couple hundred gallons. Fill a drum or pickup bulk tank? Got a pump? Buckets or cans? Site access? What about fuel remaining when the grid comes back up? Storage? Gelling in winter, biological degradation, moisture contamination? With gasoline we see pressure / vapor release issues. Fire control during refueling is an issue too. A fuel fire on an icy night is going to get interesting fast and perhaps hurt.
Diesel Kubota will power a PTO genhead for as long as you keep it fueled and oiled. One argument is to reduce number of engines you have to maintain. But when that tractor is hooked up you can't use it to clear downed trees, rescue neighbors, go get fuel, clear snow, chip ice off long drive, feed cattle.
PTO genhead will produce only the amount of watts your [horsepower] engine can produce: to approximate use engine rated HP times 745 times 0.8 = watts.
Mentioned is some kind of mass inherent in genset to smooth power output. I think what's being described is the flywheel effect. That's not going to be a pertinent factor for most smaller units.
Use online sources to estimate what you think you need in watts output then double or triple that number for the size generator you need. You'll wind up using every watt in one way or another. If not 'running', then for 'motor starting' especially if you have a compressor-type heating unit.
Strongly recommend that in most cases a stand-alone residential unit will provide better quality power and have almost no fuel management issues.
No matter which way you may go spend the money and get a unit running at the lowest possible RPMs for the output you need. Compare two weeks running at 1800-RPMs or 3600-RPMs for fuel and engine wear and maintenance. Keep multiple sets of filters and oil on hand always. And plugs and fuel filters and points and ECUs and belts and hoses and anything else you can think of as spares.
Stay completely away from those little 6- and 8-circuit 'dedicated-circuit'-type transfer switches. Always use a sufficiently rated whole-house (we use minimum 200-A residential) transfer switch and your life will be better and easier in the long run. Lots of reasons including convenience and when you look at install cost I've found it's usually cheaper to install the whole-house compared to selecting particular circuits and then being hung with that decision as things change.
We've done the hookups for those using PTO genheads. In our area mostly chicken houses. Over time every one has gradually switched to dedicated stand-alone generator and used the tractors for other chores.
Depending on their need(s) we've helped some customers decide they could be best served by mounting a commercial welding generator on a small trailer. For reasonable money you can get a 10-KW to 15-KW commercial level welding generator (low RPM if you select carefully) with a propane conversion. Set a transfer switch with a 50-amp 'plug-in' input and a larger bulk tank nearby. Use tractor to pull trailer up to house, plug in to transfer switch, quick-connect to fuel tank, crank it, go watch TV and stay warm.
If you need more than 50-amps you need a bigger unit and hardwiring. We tend to think of 50-amps as minimum to keep a moderate-size home up and running for the duration of an event. Amps = Watts divided by Volts. In this case 11,000-watts divided by 220-volts = 50-amps. 11,000 because that's a common small set and makes the numbers work for illustration.
This way you also get a low-maintenance engine (propane) driven welder to use around the place (including remote power in a far corner of the pasture). One guy uses his by pulling it into a caged trailer and taking it along for tailgating parties. To each their own.
Voltage varies nationwide. Lately there is a move afoot by grid network systems to allow even more variation in voltages as a cost-saving measure (less voltage control = less expense). Measure your voltage at different times of the day and night. As voltage drops the amps draw goes up with the opposite true also. Use 220-v in your basic calculations.
Never backfeed into your residential system. Use a rated transfer switch only. Having said that you do what you must come an emergency. The only mostly safe way to backfeed is to pull your meter. Avoid backfeeding by planning ahead. Try to avoid kiling linemen working in your area.
Don't discount the psychological factors involved: about the third day of having a single 100-watt bulb and a pulsating microwave you'll start to understand the definition of 'cabin fever'. During a severe outage the presence of light and heat will keep you going through almost anything. For this reason when considering a generator of any type get all the output you can afford and plan plan plan ahead.
I'll try answering general questions if I may assist in your process.
Years ago we had what turned out to be the first of a series of bad ice storms and were down for 17-days. The first time we burned out two not-so-small intermittent-rated camping-style generators. After that we started educating ourselves.
Part of the process we've undertaken is to do installs for others in our area and for small rural volunteer fire departments. We've expanded to doing consulting engineering design for small commercial / office units (spouse and I are both afflicted with that type background). We can and have done it all but have lately drifted away from the installation side.
For our own use we run as primary a prime-rated 45-KW (45-KVA; 45,000-watt) 3-phase powered by a 300-CI Ford 6-cyl on liquid propane along with multiple different slightly smaller backup sets. We will not again be without power. The 3-ph may not apply in most residential applications but we use it for machine tools. And we keep a huge supply of propane on hand valved off ready to go just as cheap insurance. Test runs are from small (250-gal) tanks.
Be cautious of wiring both 3-ph and single-phase off same machine. Get professional help or get smart fast before killing your system. We tap both single and 3-ph off the same outputs and run into different load-wire systems. Nothing magic just keep them straight. Not all 3-ph machines can do this long-term; some require switching (either output not both---inconvenient during storm if you need to keep house up and be in shop fabricating a broke something to get a piece of eqpt running).
Virtually all our installs have been stand-alone units fueled by liquid propane. Easy fuel storage is the primary reason. Liquid verses vapor due to size of fuel delivery line to engine over any significant distance. Pretty easy to convert a gasoline engine to liquid propane. See CarbTurbo.Com: good knowledgeable people.
We're way rural and for that reason suggest propane. If you have access to natural gas then go that way. Chances are the pipeline network will stay up---unless you worry about quakes or floods. If enough pipeline compressors go down for any reason or if your neighborhood is isolated by the nat gas supply company (loss of compression capability or open valves due to catastrophe) you lose fuel supply.
Fuel management is the biggest problem with running diesel or gasoline units regardless of stand-alone or PTO. With the grid down how will you get more fuel, manage its safe storage, pump it off, generally handle it? Remember we're talking potentially a couple hundred gallons. Fill a drum or pickup bulk tank? Got a pump? Buckets or cans? Site access? What about fuel remaining when the grid comes back up? Storage? Gelling in winter, biological degradation, moisture contamination? With gasoline we see pressure / vapor release issues. Fire control during refueling is an issue too. A fuel fire on an icy night is going to get interesting fast and perhaps hurt.
Diesel Kubota will power a PTO genhead for as long as you keep it fueled and oiled. One argument is to reduce number of engines you have to maintain. But when that tractor is hooked up you can't use it to clear downed trees, rescue neighbors, go get fuel, clear snow, chip ice off long drive, feed cattle.
PTO genhead will produce only the amount of watts your [horsepower] engine can produce: to approximate use engine rated HP times 745 times 0.8 = watts.
Mentioned is some kind of mass inherent in genset to smooth power output. I think what's being described is the flywheel effect. That's not going to be a pertinent factor for most smaller units.
Use online sources to estimate what you think you need in watts output then double or triple that number for the size generator you need. You'll wind up using every watt in one way or another. If not 'running', then for 'motor starting' especially if you have a compressor-type heating unit.
Strongly recommend that in most cases a stand-alone residential unit will provide better quality power and have almost no fuel management issues.
No matter which way you may go spend the money and get a unit running at the lowest possible RPMs for the output you need. Compare two weeks running at 1800-RPMs or 3600-RPMs for fuel and engine wear and maintenance. Keep multiple sets of filters and oil on hand always. And plugs and fuel filters and points and ECUs and belts and hoses and anything else you can think of as spares.
Stay completely away from those little 6- and 8-circuit 'dedicated-circuit'-type transfer switches. Always use a sufficiently rated whole-house (we use minimum 200-A residential) transfer switch and your life will be better and easier in the long run. Lots of reasons including convenience and when you look at install cost I've found it's usually cheaper to install the whole-house compared to selecting particular circuits and then being hung with that decision as things change.
We've done the hookups for those using PTO genheads. In our area mostly chicken houses. Over time every one has gradually switched to dedicated stand-alone generator and used the tractors for other chores.
Depending on their need(s) we've helped some customers decide they could be best served by mounting a commercial welding generator on a small trailer. For reasonable money you can get a 10-KW to 15-KW commercial level welding generator (low RPM if you select carefully) with a propane conversion. Set a transfer switch with a 50-amp 'plug-in' input and a larger bulk tank nearby. Use tractor to pull trailer up to house, plug in to transfer switch, quick-connect to fuel tank, crank it, go watch TV and stay warm.
If you need more than 50-amps you need a bigger unit and hardwiring. We tend to think of 50-amps as minimum to keep a moderate-size home up and running for the duration of an event. Amps = Watts divided by Volts. In this case 11,000-watts divided by 220-volts = 50-amps. 11,000 because that's a common small set and makes the numbers work for illustration.
This way you also get a low-maintenance engine (propane) driven welder to use around the place (including remote power in a far corner of the pasture). One guy uses his by pulling it into a caged trailer and taking it along for tailgating parties. To each their own.
Voltage varies nationwide. Lately there is a move afoot by grid network systems to allow even more variation in voltages as a cost-saving measure (less voltage control = less expense). Measure your voltage at different times of the day and night. As voltage drops the amps draw goes up with the opposite true also. Use 220-v in your basic calculations.
Never backfeed into your residential system. Use a rated transfer switch only. Having said that you do what you must come an emergency. The only mostly safe way to backfeed is to pull your meter. Avoid backfeeding by planning ahead. Try to avoid kiling linemen working in your area.
Don't discount the psychological factors involved: about the third day of having a single 100-watt bulb and a pulsating microwave you'll start to understand the definition of 'cabin fever'. During a severe outage the presence of light and heat will keep you going through almost anything. For this reason when considering a generator of any type get all the output you can afford and plan plan plan ahead.
I'll try answering general questions if I may assist in your process.
Thanks Stubbyie,, I have a 100 amp sub pannel out in the garage and back feed through it to a disconect then split the 220 to each bus in the main box, limiting the bus to about 30 amps not much but it is enough for some lights and the freezer and fridge,, any inductive loads are not a problem but the capasitive ones ,,well you know what happens,, My PTO is suppose to be 18 hp so that would limit me to around 13 kw but thats more than the 6500 I have now. WHile a stand alone unit would be nice, there are times whe the power is off at Moms so off we go if you get my meaning. SO the PTO unit keeps rearing its head. As far as the smoothing out the frequency I dont thnk thats much of a problem on the newer units. I have never put a scope on the old gas gen though Im sure its pretty dirty it runs everything well enough. I thank you for your input that was a very detailed and interesting read
A consideration...
Using your 18-hp rated PTO I'd be surprised if you got close to 12-KW available output from a PTO-driven generator head. Take into account the inherent inefficiencies of the entire system. There is no 100% conversion for any portion of the system and all the individual inefficiencies add up in a hurry.
You could oversize the genhead and that way not be strapped if you later upgrade the tractor. You could get the genhead so oversized for the present tractor that your output could actually decrease. Just be aware.
Good clean output is going to cost. I've seen 'residential grade' generators outputting power on an O-scope so bad that computer-level UPSs (by APCC, the best) wouldn't accept it. And no effective way to improve it. Buy quality.
Otherwise it sounds like you've got the program figured out.
Good luck this winter.
After we blew up two intermittent-rated not-so-small generators back in our first major ice storm in 50-yrs we limped along on a 1973 Miller BlueStar welder powered by a 16-hp Tecumseh. Still got that puppy. Spouse says we keep it regardless. Run it twice a year. They made 'em right back then. That low-rpm chug-a-chug-a-chug-a-chug sure is comforting.
Using your 18-hp rated PTO I'd be surprised if you got close to 12-KW available output from a PTO-driven generator head. Take into account the inherent inefficiencies of the entire system. There is no 100% conversion for any portion of the system and all the individual inefficiencies add up in a hurry.
You could oversize the genhead and that way not be strapped if you later upgrade the tractor. You could get the genhead so oversized for the present tractor that your output could actually decrease. Just be aware.
Good clean output is going to cost. I've seen 'residential grade' generators outputting power on an O-scope so bad that computer-level UPSs (by APCC, the best) wouldn't accept it. And no effective way to improve it. Buy quality.
Otherwise it sounds like you've got the program figured out.
Good luck this winter.
After we blew up two intermittent-rated not-so-small generators back in our first major ice storm in 50-yrs we limped along on a 1973 Miller BlueStar welder powered by a 16-hp Tecumseh. Still got that puppy. Spouse says we keep it regardless. Run it twice a year. They made 'em right back then. That low-rpm chug-a-chug-a-chug-a-chug sure is comforting.
it may not be useful for you but for me here in Canada, we rarely go for more than 1 day without power. My strategy is to use a large power inverter i had in my service truck. It's the common 120v 60hz 3kw/6kw peak inverter you can buy anywhere. It will NOT allow the 240v electric water heater or 240v deep well pump to turn on but will do everything else.
As our house is an old general store, I have a special main switch that can be used as a changeover switch for a generator. I just added a 240v pilot light on the meter side of the main switch to know when the power is back. But people who don't want to spend a lot of money can use good power cords from the inverter/generator to a power bar inside the house.
I used the inverter on the Jetta TDI battery leaving the car running while powering the house. Last week it was on the F-150 during a 8 hours power outage. I used it on the Kubota B7200 to power the tools when I built the hen house; BUT if I was to make the Kubota as the main power generator using the inverter, I would put a GM alternator on the b7200 motor pulley as the original generator is kind of... weak.
http://www.google.com/search?q=3000w+6000w+invertor
my neighbor is using a similar setup with an alternator strapped to the mower pulley of a garden tractor.
As our house is an old general store, I have a special main switch that can be used as a changeover switch for a generator. I just added a 240v pilot light on the meter side of the main switch to know when the power is back. But people who don't want to spend a lot of money can use good power cords from the inverter/generator to a power bar inside the house.
I used the inverter on the Jetta TDI battery leaving the car running while powering the house. Last week it was on the F-150 during a 8 hours power outage. I used it on the Kubota B7200 to power the tools when I built the hen house; BUT if I was to make the Kubota as the main power generator using the inverter, I would put a GM alternator on the b7200 motor pulley as the original generator is kind of... weak.
http://www.google.com/search?q=3000w+6000w+invertor
my neighbor is using a similar setup with an alternator strapped to the mower pulley of a garden tractor.
Thanks for some good information, Smog.
I like the idea of using inverters if in an area where the grid stays up. I sometimes think our rural co-op is more down than up. We're at the literal end of the line; it doesn't take much to knock us off.
We've got a couple of inverters mounted on a truck and also on a palletized toolbox. Handy for light work off in a corner of the place if we don't want to lift a welding generator and take it along.
Inverters are relatively common riding around on all sizes yard and garden tractors. I'm always surprised most of them work wired off the battery with Romex or lamp cord.
We're down too often and too long to use an inverter system for the house and shop. And the part about not running the water well (and geothermal heat pump) would create a problem---probably a small civil insurrection.
Good idea about the pilot light on the back of the meter. For a long time we'd just look north and see if the neighbor's yard light was on the next mile over. Finally I added an industrial gooseneck safety-lamp on top of our transfer switch. Wish I had thought of the pilot light like you did.
I like the idea of using inverters if in an area where the grid stays up. I sometimes think our rural co-op is more down than up. We're at the literal end of the line; it doesn't take much to knock us off.
We've got a couple of inverters mounted on a truck and also on a palletized toolbox. Handy for light work off in a corner of the place if we don't want to lift a welding generator and take it along.
Inverters are relatively common riding around on all sizes yard and garden tractors. I'm always surprised most of them work wired off the battery with Romex or lamp cord.
We're down too often and too long to use an inverter system for the house and shop. And the part about not running the water well (and geothermal heat pump) would create a problem---probably a small civil insurrection.
Good idea about the pilot light on the back of the meter. For a long time we'd just look north and see if the neighbor's yard light was on the next mile over. Finally I added an industrial gooseneck safety-lamp on top of our transfer switch. Wish I had thought of the pilot light like you did.
I am a generator technician for a worldwide generator rental company. Natural gas is the way to go for long term usage or fuel storage. Diesel fuel is a dirty fuel and bacteria grows in it. The more moisture (from condensation) the more legionus bacterial growth you will have.
When I started there back in 2002 our small (15kw) rental gens had 4 cylinder 21-22 HP kubota engines on them. Most of them had in excess of 18-20 thousand hours on them when they were retired or sold. I never saw a major mechanical failure in that time. They were built by our company in the UK and very simplistic with mechanical speed regulation at 1800 rpm (60 hz) and had a fairly expensive Stamford automatic voltage regulator on them.
With that Said, I'm looking for a 10- 15kw generator end for my 19 HP G series tractor. Kw is actual power and kva is apparent power. Kw is 80% of kva. Kva is more of a "possible power if all conditions are 100 percent perfect". It is also figured with a 100% powerfactor. Kw is figured with 80%. Most motors are in the 80-90% efficiency.
The issue I have is regulating my tractor at 1800 rpm (I have no tach). I have a direct drive mini spline pto shaft directly off the crank.
For the amount of time mine would run, strictly emergency use when power is out to run the well pump, fridge, oil furnace, etc I have no issues using my tractor and Its "primitive" setup. It will be cheaper, take up less space, and be perfect for my needs versus a 12,000-15,000 watt gasoline generator.
When I started there back in 2002 our small (15kw) rental gens had 4 cylinder 21-22 HP kubota engines on them. Most of them had in excess of 18-20 thousand hours on them when they were retired or sold. I never saw a major mechanical failure in that time. They were built by our company in the UK and very simplistic with mechanical speed regulation at 1800 rpm (60 hz) and had a fairly expensive Stamford automatic voltage regulator on them.
With that Said, I'm looking for a 10- 15kw generator end for my 19 HP G series tractor. Kw is actual power and kva is apparent power. Kw is 80% of kva. Kva is more of a "possible power if all conditions are 100 percent perfect". It is also figured with a 100% powerfactor. Kw is figured with 80%. Most motors are in the 80-90% efficiency.
The issue I have is regulating my tractor at 1800 rpm (I have no tach). I have a direct drive mini spline pto shaft directly off the crank.
For the amount of time mine would run, strictly emergency use when power is out to run the well pump, fridge, oil furnace, etc I have no issues using my tractor and Its "primitive" setup. It will be cheaper, take up less space, and be perfect for my needs versus a 12,000-15,000 watt gasoline generator.
I agree you need something more appropriate
not in your specific case but people can get 240v 60hz inverter for the deep well pumps http://www.ebay.com/itm/230637288666
as usual, the max KW power you will get out of your tractor is the PTO HP ratings / 2. In your case, you get the power straight from the engine so the best match is a 10kw generator head. (roughly half the max HP)
as an example, my B7200HST is 19hp at the crank but 14hp at the PTO, the best match would be a 7.5kw generator head on the PTO.
As you have a lawn/garden tractor (G1900) the only way to make sure you hold 1800rpm is to keep the engine at peak governed rpm then match the 1800rpm generator speed using pulleys. You can figure the generator rpm with the frequency meter on the generator ( you want 60hz here in North America)
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Where are you getting this half of the max HP figure? We don't run our industrial diesel above 1800 rpm for 60 hz applications and no more than 1500 rpm for 50 hz. They are direct drive and 50 hz configurations are derated 12-15% because of the lack of torque at the lower rpm to drive the alternator.
I'm going to do the same. Direct drive off the crank mini spline. Adding pulleys to regulate the alternator end would add complications, more wearable parts and one more thing to break when you really need it.
What I meant about regulating the tractor at 1800 rpm while under load. There is no governor control on this simplistic design, that's why it's not optimal for running electronics. If you set it to 60 hz under load it will probably be up to 61-62 when no load is one. Anything over 64hz will damage the windings because of the minute air gap and over spinning them causing things to come apart real quick
I'm going to do the same. Direct drive off the crank mini spline. Adding pulleys to regulate the alternator end would add complications, more wearable parts and one more thing to break when you really need it.
What I meant about regulating the tractor at 1800 rpm while under load. There is no governor control on this simplistic design, that's why it's not optimal for running electronics. If you set it to 60 hz under load it will probably be up to 61-62 when no load is one. Anything over 64hz will damage the windings because of the minute air gap and over spinning them causing things to come apart real quick
let's say your lawn tractor is NOT an industrial engine designed/ purpose made to run constant at 1800rpm
your lawn tractor engine is governed higher than 1800 rpm and make 18hp at 3200 max governed rpm. the mower pto is 2000 rpm at max rpm and the max crankshaft rpm is 3200.
as per your engine specification and power curve, your engine is making 18hp @ 3200rpm but if you hold it down to 1800 rpm crankshaft rpm, this engine will be good for 8hp... and 8 hp engine is just perfect to hold a 4kw generator head without bugging down. (see power curves and hp to kw ratios for commercial generators)
You can spend all your week-ends trying to figure a way to make it constant 1800rpm @ 4kw or use the existing 3200 rpm governor and chain or belt it down to 1800rpm @ 9kw.
also
1hp = 0.74kw as a pure power unit conversion.
so a perfect 18hp engine is a metric 13kw engine, take 10% off from the power transmission between the engine (and generator and other parasitic power rubbing accessories), then remove 20% from the generator head efficiency, then you are left with that "industry accepted" formula : generated KW = HP/2
that's where it came from and that's exactly why all the pto hp recommended for a X kw pto generator are roughly 2hp per generated kw
sources :
www.kubota.fr/IMG/pdf/G1700-G1900_FR.pdf
www.engine.kubota.ne.jp/english/catalog2/pdf/04_d722_36.pdf
and here is a UK generator made with the same engine as your ride-on mower :
http://www.yorpower.com/graphics/pdf/5165Kubota 10.pdf
and rated at 8kw
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Now I don't much about generators but I figure that for applacations that require a very close tolerance for freq and need to product a pretty clean wave then you may well be correct. However for an emergency applacation or use in a very remote area I would think the tolerences wouldnt be as critical, As portable gen sets are used in mostly harsh conditions by people that want lights and heat and tools which are more forgiving that say a hospital enviorment. I thank you all for your imput.
Though I have to admit and Yall can take it any way ya want, I got more useful information from a biker site than here. I guess the power mostly dont go off where you guys live, good !
Though I have to admit and Yall can take it any way ya want, I got more useful information from a biker site than here. I guess the power mostly dont go off where you guys live, good !
Skeets, I use a 2kw/4kw peak modified square wave inverter attached with vise-grips on the F-150 battery. (17 amps continuous, 34 amps peak)
it's far from clean but does the trick with the cfl lights, the indoor wood furnace blower, fridge and lcd tv.
..best of all, it's a 200$ gadget that never need an oil change.
Good info!
My tractor doesn't have a true pto. It is what I'm calling a mini pto. It is a 1/2" or 5/8 fine spine that is ran directly off the crankshaft to the rear of the tractor. It doesn't run through a gearbox or transmission. Kubota made a generator attachment for it but either was not popular or didn't work and was discontinued.
I really thought it woulda had alot more power than 8 measly HP at 1800 rpm. Lol
just find the correct splined attachment for the pto and weld a pulley so you can use a v-belt and make that pto useful for many more things (like a 4000 psi pressure washer, rear snowblower, a car alternator modified for welding or your power generator)
making a pto speed reducer will reuse the engine rpm control and keep the engine at it's peak power for the attachments.
Weldernator
Pricey pressure washer pump
making a pto speed reducer will reuse the engine rpm control and keep the engine at it's peak power for the attachments.
Weldernator
Pricey pressure washer pump
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This is a great topic for me guys as I'm contemplating which generator I'm going to purchase to run behind my B3030 too. I mow in the summer and snowblow in the winter and since I bought this tractor I've wasted no time beating my head against the wall trying to get it running for either task that I used to aggravate myself with far to often. I've been fortunate that the power loss hasn't been very often nor has it lasted very long lately, but 99% of the time when we do lose it during a severe winter strom. Having heat is usually the number one priority followed by other comforts like water for the bathroom and for sure food.
Being able to have a PTO generator on a 3 point mount with wheels to easily wheel it out from underneath a shelf on the garage wall out of the way and not have to dick around with gas or usually bad gas and a gummed up carburator is simple and reliable. Hook it up move the tractor outside and hook up the power cord and set the throttle is easy and quick. If you have to move some snow nobody is going to freeze to death or have food spoil in an hour or 2 so I think it's the perfect fit for my needs.
The thought of running an inverter off my 6 liter GM truck with the big alternator is something I gave little thought to since it drinks gas big time and my Kubota sips very little fuel in comparison so no way would I do it.
Tired
Being able to have a PTO generator on a 3 point mount with wheels to easily wheel it out from underneath a shelf on the garage wall out of the way and not have to dick around with gas or usually bad gas and a gummed up carburator is simple and reliable. Hook it up move the tractor outside and hook up the power cord and set the throttle is easy and quick. If you have to move some snow nobody is going to freeze to death or have food spoil in an hour or 2 so I think it's the perfect fit for my needs.
The thought of running an inverter off my 6 liter GM truck with the big alternator is something I gave little thought to since it drinks gas big time and my Kubota sips very little fuel in comparison so no way would I do it.
Tired
I am new to this forum and I realize that this is an old thread, but I thought that someone might benefit from my experience in having used a PTO generator.
I live in the country and when my power goes out and it is out longer than an hour or so, it will probably be days before it comes back on. Since moving to the country in 1994 I have experienced many power outages due to ice storms, hurricanes, and other severe weather. When I was without power for 12 days in one year due to an ice storm in the winter (7days) and a hurricane the following summer (5days) I decided that I needed to do something. After looking at several options I chose to get a PTO generator since I already had a Massey Ferguson 240 tractor (46 engine hp and 41 PTO hp). I purchased a new 25 KW PTO generator with a 60KW surge, and at the time I paid about $3,000 for it.
I have a car port located approximately 75 feet from my house, and I had an electrician professionally install an electrical panel box at the carport and tie this into my house circuit boxes in my garage through underground wires. I hook my PTO generator, which is mounted on its own trailer, to my tractor and pull it up to the house and park the tractor and generator under the car port. There I hook the electrical cables from the installed electrical panel into the generator and set my PTO speed to where the voltage meter on the generator says it is producing 240 V at 60 hertz. Then I flip a switch and I am providing power to my home. From the time I decide to hook it up, and until I have the power back on, takes me about 15 minutes. Most of that time is walking to the tractor shed where the tractor and generator are stored, hooking the generator trailer to the tractor draw bar, connecting the PTO shaft to the tractor, and driving it back up to the house. When I suspect that we may be without power - such as when the weather forecast is calling for severe weather - I will hook everything up in advance, and have everything set up under the carport and ready for immediate use. Then all I have to do is crank the tractor, rev up to the proper PTO rpms, and throw the switches. I always keep about 75 gallons of diesel fuel stored under the carport so that I will have it in case of an emergency.
I have been extremely happy with my PTO generator, and it does all that I want it to do. I have never had any problems while using it. I doubt that my tractor PTO (41 horsepower) is capable of producing the full 25 KW, but obviously I have never required that amount. When using the PTO generator I have both well and septic pumps that I use, my wife washes clothes and uses the clothes dryer, we have two heat pumps that we run for heat in the winter and air conditioning in the summer, we use electric baseboard heaters in the bathrooms, we use the stove and oven for cooking, we use all the kitchen appliances, and use the hot water heater and the refrigerator, and any lights that are needed. We don't shut off any circuit breakers in the panel boxes. We go about business as usual just as if we were still receiving power from the electric company. In the summertime we even continue to use the swimming pool pump and filtration system. The only precautions that I do take is that I will unplug all my computer equipment and the large flat screen TVs before I convert to the PTO generator, because I have read that electronic equipment can possibly be damaged while using PTO generated electricity. However I have a small less expensive flat screen TV and a laptop computer that I have used while on the PTO generator and never had any problems.
I have read many pros and cons about PTO generators in this thread and other threads on this forum, but I am very happy with mine and I have been using it for at least 15 years. It is rugged and has always been reliable and dependable. I have faith and confidence that if I needed it tomorrow it would do what I needed it to do. I am sure that there might be better solutions available and a PTO generator may not the perfect solution. Some of the down sides, as other have mentioned, are that they can be fairly expensive to run as diesel fuel is not cheap, but neither is the cost of getting a hotel rooms if you could find one. The tractor turning the generator does make more noise than the small 5-8 KW gas generators, but I sleep on the side of the house that faces the carport where I run the tractor to power the generator, and it does not keep me awake at night and none of my neighbors have complained about the tractor running all night. Most of my neighbors have the smaller gas powered generators and I would bet that they can not hear my tractor running over the noise that their smaller gas generators are making. Another con for me is that my wife is not physically capable of hooking it up, and I will always have to be here to do that. She is also not physically capable of refueling the tractor. I am not concerned about the number of hours that I am putting on the tractor engine. No more than I use my tractor for other things around here, I will not live long enough to wear it out. I have owned my tractor since 1997 and I have less than 800 hours on it. One big advantage for me having a PTO generator that will produce enough electricity for me to power my entire house is that my daughter and her family live nearby, and when I am without power, she is too. So I am always able to provide a safe and warm place for her, my son-in-law, and the grand kids to stay when needed.
While I agree that $3000.00 is a lot to pay for a PTO generator, a 25 KW stand alone generator would probably have been 3 to 4 times more costly, and while a smaller 5 -8 kw gas generator would have been 1/3 less expensive, it would not have done all that I wanted it to do. So for me, since I already had the tractor, it only made sense to go the PTO generator route. Had I not already owned a tractor, then it obviously would have made more sense to go in a different direction. In the future if I ever get to where I am not physically capable of hooking things up and refilling the tractor with fuel, I will probably end up selling the PTO generator as well as the tractor and use the money to buy a whole house generator that runs off propane and come on automatically when your power goes out. But as long as I am physically able to do the work, I am very happy with my PTO generator.
I hope this information helps someone who is considering whether to get a PTO generator.
Thanks for reading!
Curtis
I live in the country and when my power goes out and it is out longer than an hour or so, it will probably be days before it comes back on. Since moving to the country in 1994 I have experienced many power outages due to ice storms, hurricanes, and other severe weather. When I was without power for 12 days in one year due to an ice storm in the winter (7days) and a hurricane the following summer (5days) I decided that I needed to do something. After looking at several options I chose to get a PTO generator since I already had a Massey Ferguson 240 tractor (46 engine hp and 41 PTO hp). I purchased a new 25 KW PTO generator with a 60KW surge, and at the time I paid about $3,000 for it.
I have a car port located approximately 75 feet from my house, and I had an electrician professionally install an electrical panel box at the carport and tie this into my house circuit boxes in my garage through underground wires. I hook my PTO generator, which is mounted on its own trailer, to my tractor and pull it up to the house and park the tractor and generator under the car port. There I hook the electrical cables from the installed electrical panel into the generator and set my PTO speed to where the voltage meter on the generator says it is producing 240 V at 60 hertz. Then I flip a switch and I am providing power to my home. From the time I decide to hook it up, and until I have the power back on, takes me about 15 minutes. Most of that time is walking to the tractor shed where the tractor and generator are stored, hooking the generator trailer to the tractor draw bar, connecting the PTO shaft to the tractor, and driving it back up to the house. When I suspect that we may be without power - such as when the weather forecast is calling for severe weather - I will hook everything up in advance, and have everything set up under the carport and ready for immediate use. Then all I have to do is crank the tractor, rev up to the proper PTO rpms, and throw the switches. I always keep about 75 gallons of diesel fuel stored under the carport so that I will have it in case of an emergency.
I have been extremely happy with my PTO generator, and it does all that I want it to do. I have never had any problems while using it. I doubt that my tractor PTO (41 horsepower) is capable of producing the full 25 KW, but obviously I have never required that amount. When using the PTO generator I have both well and septic pumps that I use, my wife washes clothes and uses the clothes dryer, we have two heat pumps that we run for heat in the winter and air conditioning in the summer, we use electric baseboard heaters in the bathrooms, we use the stove and oven for cooking, we use all the kitchen appliances, and use the hot water heater and the refrigerator, and any lights that are needed. We don't shut off any circuit breakers in the panel boxes. We go about business as usual just as if we were still receiving power from the electric company. In the summertime we even continue to use the swimming pool pump and filtration system. The only precautions that I do take is that I will unplug all my computer equipment and the large flat screen TVs before I convert to the PTO generator, because I have read that electronic equipment can possibly be damaged while using PTO generated electricity. However I have a small less expensive flat screen TV and a laptop computer that I have used while on the PTO generator and never had any problems.
I have read many pros and cons about PTO generators in this thread and other threads on this forum, but I am very happy with mine and I have been using it for at least 15 years. It is rugged and has always been reliable and dependable. I have faith and confidence that if I needed it tomorrow it would do what I needed it to do. I am sure that there might be better solutions available and a PTO generator may not the perfect solution. Some of the down sides, as other have mentioned, are that they can be fairly expensive to run as diesel fuel is not cheap, but neither is the cost of getting a hotel rooms if you could find one. The tractor turning the generator does make more noise than the small 5-8 KW gas generators, but I sleep on the side of the house that faces the carport where I run the tractor to power the generator, and it does not keep me awake at night and none of my neighbors have complained about the tractor running all night. Most of my neighbors have the smaller gas powered generators and I would bet that they can not hear my tractor running over the noise that their smaller gas generators are making. Another con for me is that my wife is not physically capable of hooking it up, and I will always have to be here to do that. She is also not physically capable of refueling the tractor. I am not concerned about the number of hours that I am putting on the tractor engine. No more than I use my tractor for other things around here, I will not live long enough to wear it out. I have owned my tractor since 1997 and I have less than 800 hours on it. One big advantage for me having a PTO generator that will produce enough electricity for me to power my entire house is that my daughter and her family live nearby, and when I am without power, she is too. So I am always able to provide a safe and warm place for her, my son-in-law, and the grand kids to stay when needed.
While I agree that $3000.00 is a lot to pay for a PTO generator, a 25 KW stand alone generator would probably have been 3 to 4 times more costly, and while a smaller 5 -8 kw gas generator would have been 1/3 less expensive, it would not have done all that I wanted it to do. So for me, since I already had the tractor, it only made sense to go the PTO generator route. Had I not already owned a tractor, then it obviously would have made more sense to go in a different direction. In the future if I ever get to where I am not physically capable of hooking things up and refilling the tractor with fuel, I will probably end up selling the PTO generator as well as the tractor and use the money to buy a whole house generator that runs off propane and come on automatically when your power goes out. But as long as I am physically able to do the work, I am very happy with my PTO generator.
I hope this information helps someone who is considering whether to get a PTO generator.
Thanks for reading!
Curtis
Great post, and you should have no problem making 25kw.
http://www.rapidtables.com/convert/power/hp-to-watt.htm
Lots of info here: http://www.justgenerators.co.uk/pages/FAQ.html
I've considered a pto generator, but decided against because of the lack of AVR (automatic voltage regulation).
I have a 25 year old (bought new) 8kw Generac which has served me well, up to seven days straight 24/7, and all computers on UPS's.
http://www.rapidtables.com/convert/power/hp-to-watt.htm
Lots of info here: http://www.justgenerators.co.uk/pages/FAQ.html
I've considered a pto generator, but decided against because of the lack of AVR (automatic voltage regulation).
I have a 25 year old (bought new) 8kw Generac which has served me well, up to seven days straight 24/7, and all computers on UPS's.
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Interesting read. It seems to me those who are totally against PTO generators are those with circumstances which are not conducive to the PTO setup.
In the past, I bought a 10K generator head, built a bracket, and hung it on the front of a garden tractor. Usually 16HP. Set the speed, which I had belted to wide open where the power was to make best use of the generator's full capacity, and let the engine bark. It did a good job of running the whole house when needed. Other than convenience, there is no need for 24 hour operation. I'd run it an hour or two, and shut it down for the same or longer. This kept the fridge, freezer, etc. cold, and the house warm as everything ran during this time. I lived in a rural environment, but typically, town would have power, and I could always go get another can of gas if I ran low. Usually had 10 gallons on hand, and burned a gallon an hour. I never did have to make a trip to town for more gas. Normal snow blowing and yard mowing rotated the gas enough it never got "old". As far as I was concerned, a perfect setup.
Fast forward to today. Different local, but still rural, with town a short distance away. Now my main "tractor" is a BX-2670. Close to 20 PTO horsepower. A 3-point hitch mount, PTO driven generator would be perfect for me.
Looking online, I see many are now available with AVR, just add a few hundred dollars. The prices are more than portable, self contained units with gas engines. Often times, double a self contained unit. No doubt the "cleanliness" of the electricity is vastly superior in the PTO units. At least I HOPE so for that money!
Alas, for now, it's all but a dream. All I can do is hope the power stays on for the most part. The 60 "easy monthly payments" for the tractor w/ blower & mower, will wipe out any moneys that might have been used for more accessories. Even when those accessories are more like necessities.
In the past, I bought a 10K generator head, built a bracket, and hung it on the front of a garden tractor. Usually 16HP. Set the speed, which I had belted to wide open where the power was to make best use of the generator's full capacity, and let the engine bark. It did a good job of running the whole house when needed. Other than convenience, there is no need for 24 hour operation. I'd run it an hour or two, and shut it down for the same or longer. This kept the fridge, freezer, etc. cold, and the house warm as everything ran during this time. I lived in a rural environment, but typically, town would have power, and I could always go get another can of gas if I ran low. Usually had 10 gallons on hand, and burned a gallon an hour. I never did have to make a trip to town for more gas. Normal snow blowing and yard mowing rotated the gas enough it never got "old". As far as I was concerned, a perfect setup.
Fast forward to today. Different local, but still rural, with town a short distance away. Now my main "tractor" is a BX-2670. Close to 20 PTO horsepower. A 3-point hitch mount, PTO driven generator would be perfect for me.
Looking online, I see many are now available with AVR, just add a few hundred dollars. The prices are more than portable, self contained units with gas engines. Often times, double a self contained unit. No doubt the "cleanliness" of the electricity is vastly superior in the PTO units. At least I HOPE so for that money!
Alas, for now, it's all but a dream. All I can do is hope the power stays on for the most part. The 60 "easy monthly payments" for the tractor w/ blower & mower, will wipe out any moneys that might have been used for more accessories. Even when those accessories are more like necessities.