Outdoor planter box to insulate part of wall?

[coachgeo]

The north side of my house is shaded and where all the plumbing is. The previous owner use to stack hay bails in front a few layers high when he was gone and had heat lowered some.

I had house heated yet still burst all the pipes up front on the north wall.

Going to remodel outside maybe this summer. Log home siding.

Anyway... what about a planter box say 3' high filled with dirt. Will that hold cold and be worse or possibly help?

 

[85Hokie]

The north side of my house is shaded and where all the plumbing is. The previous owner use to stack hay bails in front a few layers high when he was gone and had heat lowered some.

I had house heated yet still burst all the pipes up front on the north wall.

Going to remodel outside maybe this summer. Log home siding.

Anyway... what about a planter box say 3" high filled with dirt. Will that hold cold and be worse or possibly help?

Anything you stack there will help - to what degree depends. Compacted dirt in a planter box will insulate much of what it is around....however if the pipes are running above that elevation...they will still freeze....

dumb question - are the pipes accessible top or bottom ? can they be wrapped with "heat" tape? I lived in a house where the washer and dryer where outside, wrapped heat tape around the washer lines....never had a problem - now if you cannot get to the pipes.....IF there are inside the wall - then you will have to find a way to keep warmer air on them.....

got any pictures of what is going on?

 

[live_roll]

If I was going to go the planter box route, I would build them higher than 3 inches, perhaps 8-12 inches, and prior to filling with dirt, I would purchase some of the Styrofoam insulating sheets and cut them to fit in the bottom, then throw the dirt on top for added insulation or perhaps one could dig it out below grade and then lay in the insulation. I think it can be purchased in various thicknesses, that would definitely assist in keeping the natural heat in the ground.

Just my two cents... perhaps something to consider.

Cheers

Roger

 

[OldeEnglish]

I'm having trouble understanding where your pipes are actually freezing.... Inside somewhere with house being built on a foundation or crawl space, or freezing underground on slab construction?

I'm guessing underground seeing that your considering adding cover to the ground with planters?

 

[Dan_R_42]

Please keep in mind that here in MA the frost can travel 24-30" into the ground. I'm thinking OH may be similar. So the dirt once moist or damp is not a good insulator. Just saying...

I think the thick foam insulation sheets can be your friend in helping to keep the cold out.

 

[OldeEnglish]

Please keep in mind that here in MA the frost can travel 24-30" into the ground. I'm thinking OH may be similar. So the dirt once moist or damp is not a good insulator. Just saying...

I think the thick foam insulation sheets can be your friend in helping to keep the cold out.

Frost this year is reaching beond 4' . Some folks in my area haven't had water for over a month due to water mains bursting in the street or on their property. I left my water dripping last month in the house to avoid a burst on my property because I'll have to fix it, not the town. Can't wait to see that water bill , but it's a hell of a lot cheaper than trying to jackhammer up 4' of frozen ground!

 

[Diydave]

There was a lot of busted pipes around here, too. We always open under cabinet sinks to let some heat in, and put light bulbs near plumbing, and let the water run, just a drip to a fine stream, moving water don't freeze...

 

[coachgeo]

If I was going to go the planter box route, I would build them higher than 3 inches, perhaps 8-12 inches, and prior to filling with dirt, I would purchase some of the Styrofoam insulating sheets and cut them to fit in the bottom, ...

First my bad... miss typed. thought was 3 FOOT tall box. Have now edited opening post.

Pipes are in the wall. About 2.5 feet above the outside ground. Home has non accessible crawl space under floor. (Pier and Beam construction. Built in 1954).

We've repaired pipes, added pipe insulation where possible, improved insulation and spray foamed filled some opening/cracks to outside. Home is sided with cheap? layer of Styrofoam behind siding.

Good idea on Styrofoam on one side of the box next to wall.

 

[OldeEnglish]

That sounds like a tough situation coach that I can imagine is a big pain in the ass for you. The foam would definitely help, I would use a high R rating type foam board that has a vapor barrier on it, more the R rating the better. Doubling it up wouldn't be a bad idea either.

The key is to get the pipes into an insulated and conditioned space. Blown-in insulation could be an option if there is nothing in the walls now. You need to get the pipes out of the exterior walls. You need at least 4" of insulation as well as taped sheet rock as a wind barrier between the water lines and the exterior wall to avoid freezing. It makes ya wonder why a plumber would install water lines in a exterior wall being in a region that gets below freezing temps, but it happens. Hell, I've dealt with an architect once that designed a 4 bath house having every shower valve on an exterior wall. I figured they would teach college students that water freezes at 32 deg...

Insulating the pipes helps, but will still freeze if the water is not in motion. I don't know how accessible the water lines are for you... One option could be to pipe the water lines in a loop and add a recirculating stainless steel pump that will keep the water in motion when the temps drop. It could even be controlled by an aquastat or thermostat that would turn the pumps on when temp gets close to freezing. Honestly that idea is overkill but could be a temporary solution until you remodel.

I'm not a fan of heat tape, especially on anything that isn't accessible, that's good way to start a fire.

Pex piping could also be an advantage in that situation because it has the ability to expand without bursting.

 

[Tooljunkie]

Styrospan foam insulation on bottom and along wall will actually move your frost line out further, aiding in warmth in crawlspace as well as your wall. The biggest thing is sealing it so water and air do not infiltrate between flowerbed and wall. Proper flashing and treated materials should make it kast a long time. I used treated landscape ties, sawed in half lengthwise and screwed to pressure treated lumber. Thus requiring only 1/2 the amount of ties.
I only did a small area, 20 long 4wide 3 deep but it prevented the frost from lifting east end of house.

Another thing- pyrotenics. T fitting,plumbed in and heat trace is inside your pipes. Awesome priduct, only heats area thats freezing. Expensive but super effective.

Brought to you by a guy that contends with - 30 for weeks at a time. Labour wise i would go eith the latest technology in freeze prevention.
I had to thaw my water line, in my pumphouse. 12 feet nylon tubing and a 12 volt rv water pump. Pail of water and circulated cold water for 20 minutes and blew through 3 feet of frozen water line. Worked slick. Buddy borrowed it snd went 20 feet in no time.