Newbie in Western Carolina

[HappyTopster]

Glad to stumble across this forum. I’m currently in search mode. We have 3 acres in Nantahala Forest region of WNC above 3,000 ft. About 1 acre unlevel grass I mow w/48” ZTR with knobbier tires which actually almost works. No sliding and minimal turf damage if it’s dry and I’m careful. Standard turf tires were a Disney ride. There’s a curving gravel driveway uphill to the house ~500 ft long. I’ve actually not been able to get the Wrangler up the drive on certain snow conditions (I’m better w/the Wrangler now- but it can be tricky during the ocasional snows. We have a 40’x40’ fenced garden w/ a common fence for the adjacent chicken coop/run. There’s a large compost bin up behind house. I get trailer loads of manure from family a few miles away. There’s always adjacent forest land or neighbors w/ standing dead or tree falls. We have wood stove in basement for 100% heating needs. Runs pretty constant about 5-6 mo/yr. I am currently recovering rotator cuff repair, have back issues, carpal tunnel, etc.
5x8 landscape trailer and Honda Pioneer 700.
Considering B2401 (gear drive) and LX2610SU. I’ve borrowed larger gear drive Kubota from neighbor and like gear drive but not essential.. Originally set on backhoe but box blade and grappler may be better start? Or post hole attachment?
I’ve been checking FB and plan to visit local dealer once shoulder doesn’t feel like it’s filled w/ glass shards.
Advice appreciated. I’m retired and have plenty of free time. Wife will balk at anything over $8,000 but she doesn’t understand! I know I’m looking $20-30k based new /used unless I risk older.

 

[skeets]

Welcome to the orange. You might look at a BX series ,trust me they are a lot more than they seem to be. I have an older BX 2360 that has pushed more snow than I care to think about, pulled firewood logs out of the woods, mowed my 5 + acers and I live in coal country so it isn't flat by any means. She has been beaten used and abused and comes back for more. From what you say that would work, but bigger is sometimes better. I bought a new B 2601 a while back, and while it looks nice I am not impressed with it, so choose carefully. I will add Kubota has some good deals on new tractors, and were I to do it over, I would go with everything thing you want/need right from the get go. Warranty, and the right tools, to do what you want and need. Yep , Mama is going to balk at monthly payments, but trust me, trying to MAKE DO with things you don't have and need, ain't no fun, and sometimes dangerous. A thought, take her with you to look and let her run one around the lot, you might find out, she is more interested than you think, the down side is she might want to spend more time on it than you Most of us have seen this happen more than once!

 

[PaulL]

HST is definitely better for tree work and anything loader related. Yes, you can do it with gear drive, but I definitely wouldn't have a preference for gear drive in a small tractor.

B2601 I think is a better size for what you describe than a BX, although a BX will do it. A BX is short on ground clearance for working in the woods, and you can do damage to the HST fan unless you install a guard.

Would you keep the zero turn, or mow with the tractor? You'll probably want industrial/R4 tires for woods work, they work OK in snow but not great....you'll probably want chains.

Plowing snow or blowing snow? Or not using the tractor for snow work?

Agree on no backhoe, it's a lot of extra cost, you need to have a clear use for it. Post hole augers are OK, but they are a bit of a death trap. How much fencing are you really doing? Can you borrow, hire, or contract out if it's not that often? Fencing generally sucks, a good contractor will do it cheaper than you and way faster, and without destroying your back. They'll get enough discount on materials that it covers their labour usually (at least in my part of the world). Having the right equipment makes it really fast. And doing it properly means not having to redo it in 3 years when it turns out you didn't ram the posts well enough.

I put a small log splitter on my B2601, and I'm really happy with the result. The forum recommends against it, but it's way way better than using an axe. Or you can get a gas powered splitter I guess, I was happier with a 3ph mounted one. https://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/threads/hydraulic-outlets-on-b2601-for-log-splitter.70676/

You might want to consider a tiller given garden size. Often can be found in good condition used.

In the B size range, you can go reasonably old and still get a good machine. There are a bunch of early 2000s B machines for OK prices that have a lot of life left in them - and there aren't really a lot of features in a newer machine that you'd be missing out on a lot if you bought an older one.

If it were me, I'd buy a new B2601. In fact, I did. But a BX would do the job in a pinch, and an LX would be better/stronger/more ground clearance. It really comes down to budget and whether you really want new.

 

[Speed25]

On hills and in the woods, I've found my little BX to be much more useful than my L ever was. Capacity is notably lower, but I can reach so many places I couldn't reach with the L and with wheel spacers, this thing is much more stable in the steeper terrain too. I've really got to be aware of the minimal ground clearance though, especially in the muddy spots. I'd rather have certain chores take longer with a smaller machine that allowed me to reach more places, but if you've got pretty clear trails for access and trees spaced less tightly than mine, a larger machine will definitely make the work easier. With the loader, the L was just too long to make some turns to reach certain areas, and the wider bucket wouldn't fit between a lot of the trees.

For mowing, I constantly hear people saying to mow when it's dry. That's not often an option for me due to many natural springs and the water table being only a few feet below the surface, so the BX is invaluable for mowing in these conditions compared to a zero-turn that'd constantly slide down wet hills and be stuck. Knowing that I'm still likely to slide some in the BX, the lower center of gravity is a benefit.

Walk the areas where you'd be using your tractor and starting taking notes of what areas might be accessible with a smaller tractor, and what chores would be helped with a larger tractor and weigh the pros and cons. A smaller capacity tractor won't be as helpful for logging since it can't carry as much, but if it can reach more places than a larger tractor could, it might be a net benefit to go with the smaller unit.

 

[HappyTopster]

Welcome to the orange. You might look at a BX series ,trust me they are a lot more than they seem to be. I have an older BX 2360 that has pushed more snow than I care to think about, pulled firewood logs out of the woods, mowed my 5 + acers and I live in coal country so it isn't flat by any means. She has been beaten used and abused and comes back for more. From what you say that would work, but bigger is sometimes better. I bought a new B 2601 a while back, and while it looks nice I am not impressed with it, so choose carefully. I will add Kubota has some good deals on new tractors, and were I to do it over, I would go with everything thing you want/need right from the get go. Warranty, and the right tools, to do what you want and need. Yep , Mama is going to balk at monthly payments, but trust me, trying to MAKE DO with things you don't have and need, ain't no fun, and sometimes dangerous. A thought, take her with you to look and let her run one around the lot, you might find out, she is more interested than you think, the down side is she might want to spend more time on it than you Most of us have seen this happen more than once!
T

Thanks for that! Of course I started at the BX being perfect but now I need a L2502, lol. The BX would get me the BH, which is the window on bigger units. There are a few L2502 used for ~$20k but would still need grapple, box blade…
It’s a fun hunt for sure. I’ll see if the Commander will go to the dealer with me.

 

[PaulL]

A B2601 is basically the same length and width as a BX, it's just taller. Being taller it has better ground clearance, bigger wheels (will go over more things), and better geometry on the 3ph so it'll lift more. I don't see any downside at all moving from a BX to a B2601 - there are very few things a BX will do that a B won't. You buy a BX if you want something low. If you don't have that requirement, a B2601 costs about the same and does more.

Moving to an LX or an L is often a good idea. But they're bigger and more expensive. And of course, an MX is also a good machine, as is an M.....I can keep doing this all day.

Rule of thumb for me is under 3 acres is B or BX. 2-5 acres probably LX. 5 acres+ is probably L. Unless you have some specific requirements to lift something, or fit into a space, or have a specific weight, or need a mid-PTO etc. You can generally go up or down one size just based on personal preference - so if you just want a bigger machine then no harm in going up one size, if you just want to save money or a smaller machine, no big harm in going down one size. If you go two sizes outside my rule of thumb, you need a special reason. People will look at you funny if you have an L on 1 acre, and they'll also look at you funny if you're trying to manage 10 acres with a BX. If you don't care what your neighbours think, you can of course have an MX on your 1 acre block, and tell everyone else it's none of their business.....

 

[NorthwoodsLife]

Go look at the tractors with the better half.

The BX23S - TLB (tractor, loader, backhoe], is a great deal for smaller properties. Mid 20's brand new!

I mow grass with a lawn mower. I do tractor work with a tractor. But that's just my opinion based on some experience. I cut weeds and brush on my trails with a rotary cutter on my tractor's 3 point hitch.

Acreage means tractor size, is a good benchmark, but isn't very accurate. I have a bit over 40 acres and a LX2610 on my tree farm. It's too small some may say, but it has been perfect. I knew a guy with a huge articulated loader on one acre, and it was what he needed. Work to be done is the key.

Good luck.

Check out the BX23S.

https://www.kubotausa.com/products/tractors/sub-compact/bx23s-new

 

[HappyTopster]

A B2601 is basically the same length and width as a BX, it's just taller. Being taller it has better ground clearance, bigger wheels (will go over more things), and better geometry on the 3ph so it'll lift more. I don't see any downside at all moving from a BX to a B2601 - there are very few things a BX will do that a B won't. You buy a BX if you want something low. If you don't have that requirement, a B2601 costs about the same and does more.

Moving to an LX or an L is often a good idea. But they're bigger and more expensive. And of course, an MX is also a good machine, as is an M.....I can keep doing this all day.

Rule of thumb for me is under 3 acres is B or BX. 2-5 acres probably LX. 5 acres+ is probably L. Unless you have some specific requirements to lift something, or fit into a space, or have a specific weight, or need a mid-PTO etc. You can generally go up or down one size just based on personal preference - so if you just want a bigger machine then no harm in going up one size, if you just want to save money or a smaller machine, no big harm in going down one size. If you go two sizes outside my rule of thumb, you need a special reason. People will look at you funny if you have an L on 1 acre, and they'll also look at you funny if you're trying to manage 10 acres with a BX. If you don't care what your neighbours think, you can of course have an MX on your 1 acre block, and tell everyone else it's none of their business.....

Welcome to the orange. You might look at a BX series ,trust me they are a lot more than they seem to be. I have an older BX 2360 that has pushed more snow than I care to think about, pulled firewood logs out of the woods, mowed my 5 + acers and I live in coal country so it isn't flat by any means. She has been beaten used and abused and comes back for more. From what you say that would work, but bigger is sometimes better. I bought a new B 2601 a while back, and while it looks nice I am not impressed with it, so choose carefully. I will add Kubota has some good deals on new tractors, and were I to do it over, I would go with everything thing you want/need right from the get go. Warranty, and the right tools, to do what you want and need. Yep , Mama is going to balk at monthly payments, but trust me, trying to MAKE DO with things you don't have and need, ain't no fun, and sometimes dangerous. A thought, take her with you to look and let her run one around the lot, you might find out, she is more interested than you think, the down side is she might want to spend more time on it than you Most of us have seen this happen more than once!

Welcome to the orange. You might look at a BX series ,trust me they are a lot more than they seem to be. I have an older BX 2360 that has pushed more snow than I care to think about, pulled firewood logs out of the woods, mowed my 5 + acers and I live in coal country so it isn't flat by any means. She has been beaten used and abused and comes back for more. From what you say that would work, but bigger is sometimes better. I bought a new B 2601 a while back, and while it looks nice I am not impressed with it, so choose carefully. I will add Kubota has some good deals on new tractors, and were I to do it over, I would go with everything thing you want/need right from the get go. Warranty, and the right tools, to do what you want and need. Yep , Mama is going to balk at monthly payments, but trust me, trying to MAKE DO with things you don't have and need, ain't no fun, and sometimes dangerous. A thought, take her with you to look and let her run one around the lot, you might find out, she is more interested than you think, the down side is she might want to spend more time on it than you Most of us have seen this happen more than once!

Could you expand on how the B2601 didn’t impress you? I know a lot of people on this site have them so we can leave it at that if you prefer.

 

[PaulL]

I think the operator platform on the B2601 can be a bit cramped for a larger guy - I know that's a problem some people have. Not a problem I have, I'm a skinny guy. But it's always good advice to go sit on the tractor and see what suits you - they all have their individual foibles. The L apparently has a loader stick in a funny place. You may care, you may not.

 

[HappyTopster]

HST is definitely better for tree work and anything loader related. Yes, you can do it with gear drive, but I definitely wouldn't have a preference for gear drive in a small tractor.

B2601 I think is a better size for what you describe than a BX, although a BX will do it. A BX is short on ground clearance for working in the woods, and you can do damage to the HST fan unless you install a guard.

Would you keep the zero turn, or mow with the tractor? You'll probably want industrial/R4 tires for woods work, they work OK in snow but not great....you'll probably want chains.

Plowing snow or blowing snow? Or not using the tractor for snow work?

Agree on no backhoe, it's a lot of extra cost, you need to have a clear use for it. Post hole augers are OK, but they are a bit of a death trap. How much fencing are you really doing? Can you borrow, hire, or contract out if it's not that often? Fencing generally sucks, a good contractor will do it cheaper than you and way faster, and without destroying your back. They'll get enough discount on materials that it covers their labour usually (at least in my part of the world). Having the right equipment makes it really fast. And doing it properly means not having to redo it in 3 years when it turns out you didn't ram the posts well enough.

I put a small log splitter on my B2601, and I'm really happy with the result. The forum recommends against it, but it's way way better than using an axe. Or you can get a gas powered splitter I guess, I was happier with a 3ph mounted one. https://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/threads/hydraulic-outlets-on-b2601-for-log-splitter.70676/

You might want to consider a tiller given garden size. Often can be found in good condition used.

In the B size range, you can go reasonably old and still get a good machine. There are a bunch of early 2000s B machines for OK prices that have a lot of life left in them - and there aren't really a lot of features in a newer machine that you'd be missing out on a lot if you bought an older one.

If it were me, I'd buy a new B2601. In fact, I did. But a BX would do the job in a pinch, and an LX would be better/stronger/more ground clearance. It really comes down to budget and whether you really want new.

I like the XMark for mowing because it’s so fast/maneuverable. That’s where the LX SU may be a good fit without the mid PTO. I have a 30 ton log splitter w/commercial Honda engine so that’s handled. Would a box blade work to clear snow/ice from gravel driveway? We don’t get so much snow that a blower would be a priority. Or would it? As far as tilling we had neighbor till the original site but we’ve been no-tilling since then. But we keep adding new plant beds where there’s a sizeable area of grass to be removed so it would be great for new beds.

 

[HappyTopster]

I think the operator platform on the B2601 can be a bit cramped for a larger guy - I know that's a problem some people have. Not a problem I have, I'm a skinny guy. But it's always good advice to go sit on the tractor and see what suits you - they all have their individual foibles. The L apparently has a loader stick in a funny place. You may care, you may not.

Thanks. Thats not an issue for me either.

 

[HappyTopster]

On hills and in the woods, I've found my little BX to be much more useful than my L ever was. Capacity is notably lower, but I can reach so many places I couldn't reach with the L and with wheel spacers, this thing is much more stable in the steeper terrain too. I've really got to be aware of the minimal ground clearance though, especially in the muddy spots. I'd rather have certain chores take longer with a smaller machine that allowed me to reach more places, but if you've got pretty clear trails for access and trees spaced less tightly than mine, a larger machine will definitely make the work easier. With the loader, the L was just too long to make some turns to reach certain areas, and the wider bucket wouldn't fit between a lot of the trees.

For mowing, I constantly hear people saying to mow when it's dry. That's not often an option for me due to many natural springs and the water table being only a few feet below the surface, so the BX is invaluable for mowing in these conditions compared to a zero-turn that'd constantly slide down wet hills and be stuck. Knowing that I'm still likely to slide some in the BX, the lower center of gravity is a benefit.

Walk the areas where you'd be using your tractor and starting taking notes of what areas might be accessible with a smaller tractor, and what chores would be helped with a larger tractor and weigh the pros and cons. A smaller capacity tractor won't be as helpful for logging since it can't carry as much, but if it can reach more places than a larger tractor could, it might be a net benefit to go with the smaller unit.

Thank you! Such good feedback. It seems any of the sub compact or compact line will work for me. It’s a matter of narrowing down which attachments/how much $ to spend.

 

[HappyTopster]

A B2601 is basically the same length and width as a BX, it's just taller. Being taller it has better ground clearance, bigger wheels (will go over more things), and better geometry on the 3ph so it'll lift more. I don't see any downside at all moving from a BX to a B2601 - there are very few things a BX will do that a B won't. You buy a BX if you want something low. If you don't have that requirement, a B2601 costs about the same and does more.

Moving to an LX or an L is often a good idea. But they're bigger and more expensive. And of course, an MX is also a good machine, as is an M.....I can keep doing this all day.

Rule of thumb for me is under 3 acres is B or BX. 2-5 acres probably LX. 5 acres+ is probably L. Unless you have some specific requirements to lift something, or fit into a space, or have a specific weight, or need a mid-PTO etc. You can generally go up or down one size just based on personal preference - so if you just want a bigger machine then no harm in going up one size, if you just want to save money or a smaller machine, no big harm in going down one size. If you go two sizes outside my rule of thumb, you need a special reason. People will look at you funny if you have an L on 1 acre, and they'll also look at you funny if you're trying to manage 10 acres with a BX. If you don't care what your neighbours think, you can of course have an MX on your 1 acre block, and tell everyone else it's none of their business.....

Thanks Paul. Really good info. This site is a gem.

 

[Runs With Scissors]

I will be the dissenting opinion on the backhoe.

I love my BH and it would be a "must have" if I ever replace my 2501 with another tractor.

The amount of uses for it only becomes apparent once you own one.

It's possibly the best 10K I ever spent.

Just last week I needed to move my SIL's, POS truck into the garage, so I chained the trailer hitch to the bucket and pulled backwards.

Due to the poor placement of the truck, I would not have been able to drag it any other way.

There are possibly hundreds of other uses for it, too many to list.

Listen to Clemenza.......

EDIT: I am apparently not the only one that loves his BH. Check out my poll.

https://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/threads/backhoe-owners-poll.65214/

 

[BAP]

I will give you my opinion, buy what you want, that will accomplish what YOU want to do and not what internet strangers tell you that you need to buy based upon their personal preferences. If you have uses that a backhoe will be useful, then buy one.

 

[HappyTopster]

HST is definitely better for tree work and anything loader related. Yes, you can do it with gear drive, but I definitely wouldn't have a preference for gear drive in a small tractor.

B2601 I think is a better size for what you describe than a BX, although a BX will do it. A BX is short on ground clearance for working in the woods, and you can do damage to the HST fan unless you install a guard.

Would you keep the zero turn, or mow with the tractor? You'll probably want industrial/R4 tires for woods work, they work OK in snow but not great....you'll probably want chains.

Plowing snow or blowing snow? Or not using the tractor for snow work?

Agree on no backhoe, it's a lot of extra cost, you need to have a clear use for it. Post hole augers are OK, but they are a bit of a death trap. How much fencing are you really doing? Can you borrow, hire, or contract out if it's not that often? Fencing generally sucks, a good contractor will do it cheaper than you and way faster, and without destroying your back. They'll get enough discount on materials that it covers their labour usually (at least in my part of the world). Having the right equipment makes it really fast. And doing it properly means not having to redo it in 3 years when it turns out you didn't ram the posts well enough.

I put a small log splitter on my B2601, and I'm really happy with the result. The forum recommends against it, but it's way way better than using an axe. Or you can get a gas powered splitter I guess, I was happier with a 3ph mounted one. https://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/threads/hydraulic-outlets-on-b2601-for-log-splitter.70676/

You might want to consider a tiller given garden size. Often can be found in good condition used.

In the B size range, you can go reasonably old and still get a good machine. There are a bunch of early 2000s B machines for OK prices that have a lot of life left in them - and there aren't really a lot of features in a newer machine that you'd be missing out on a lot if you bought an older one.

If it were me, I'd buy a new B2601. In fact, I did. But a BX would do the job in a pinch, and an LX would be better/stronger/more ground clearance. It really comes down to budget and whether you really want new.

Heard back from dealer. The LX and L priced similar. B is about 4 grand less. Their all above $25k w/front loader, grapple and 3rd function.

I will be the dissenting opinion on the backhoe.

I love my BH and it would be a "must have" if I ever replace my 2501 with another tractor.

The amount of uses for it only becomes apparent once you own one.

It's possibly the best 10K I ever spent.

Just last week I need to move my SIL's, POS truck into the garage, so I chained the trailer hitch to the bucket and pulled backwards.

Due to the poor placement of the truck, I would not have been able to drag it any other way.

There are possibly hundreds of other uses for it, too many to list.

Listen to Clemenza.......


View attachment 153459



EDIT: I am apparently not the only one that loves his BH. Check out my poll.

https://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/threads/backhoe-owners-poll.65214/

Thank you for your input. Did you actually tally votes on your poll?

 

[HappyTopster]

I will give you my opinion, buy what you want, that will accomplish what YOU want to do and not what internet strangers tell you that you need to buy based upon their personal preferences. If you have uses that a backhoe will be useful, then buy one.

Yes

 

[bobnic]

Rule of thumb for me is under 3 acres is B or BX. 2-5 acres probably LX. 5 acres+ is probably L. Unless you have some specific requirements to lift something, or fit into a space, or have a specific weight, or need a mid-PTO etc. You can generally go up or down one size just based on personal preference - so if you just want a bigger machine then no harm in going up one size, if you just want to save money or a smaller machine, no big harm in going down one size. If you go two sizes outside my rule of thumb, you need a special reason. People will look at you funny if you have an L on 1 acre, and they'll also look at you funny if you're trying to manage 10 acres with a BX. If you don't care what your neighbours think, you can of course have an MX on your 1 acre block, and tell everyone else it's none of their business.....

The often cited trope of basing tractor size on property size makes little to no sense in most cases. Tractor size should be selected based the type of work needed to be done. Usually this has little to no correlation to property size, unless you are farming a field.

 

[NCL4701]

In the interest of potentially adding confusion…

If you’re doing a good bit of firewood work in challenging terrain a skidding winch might be a consideration. There might be part of the Nantahala Forest region that isn’t “challenging” for low impact logging. I haven’t seen nearly all of it. Parts I’ve seen are somewhere between difficult and requiring a heavy lift helicopter. Anyway, a winch will allow retrieving logs from areas impossible for equipment to access; just have to get within range of the cable.

Combination of grapple and winch allow me to efficiently and safely pull down windfallen trees hung up in other trees, manipulate logs and transport back to the wood yard for processing. With a couple snatch blocks, tree saver straps for anchor points, and some creativity you can retrieve logs from some pretty gnarly places while your tractor stays on solid footing.

It’s still physical; still have to split it and stack it. My prior process was buck and sometimes split to man sized pieces to manually load on a trailer, manually unload trailer at wood yard, final split, and stack: manually picked it up and moved it at least 3 times. With the winch and grapple, I’m getting it to the wood yard in log form, buck it to length, split, and stack. I’m now manually moving it once. I’m not getting any younger, I work alone, and I’ve got a few of those glass shards in my left shoulder plus a knee that sometimes causes folks nearby to ask where the heck that nauseating bone breaking sound came from. But I can pull in a lot of wood really quickly without doing anything to myself a couple Gatorade’s and a magnesium supplement won’t cover.

I have a Farmi W50R rated at 11,000lb. Both Farmi and Wallenstein and maybe some others make one size smaller, but you’d probably need a L size frame to hold it.

Just a thought..,

 

[hedgerow]

I’ve been checking FB and plan to visit local dealer once shoulder doesn’t feel like it’s filled w/ glass shards.
Advice appreciated. I’m retired and have plenty of free time. Wife will balk at anything over $8,000 but she doesn’t understand! I know I’m looking $20-30k based new /used unless I risk older.

First off welcome to the forum. Hope the shoulder works out ok. I had two surgery's on the same shoulder and the outcome hasn't been great. Before to much advice is given need to know is the banker {WIFE} going to let you spend 8 grand or 30 grand makes a big difference. Myself I like the HST tractors in the 60HP range and less. I have a MX6000 with loader and really like the tractor. You have the zero turn for mowing so I would buy the biggest HST tractor the boss will let you buy. Happy wife happy life.