Need info about valves

TheOldHokie

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That looks exactly like a P40 valve with a Vevor namplate. Are you sure ALL of the ports are the same size. For sure that plug is NOT 3/8" G thread. A 3/8" G thread plug would be .656 and that looks like 1/2" G thread at .825. Dollars to donuts that is a Chinese P40 with 1/2" G thread on P, N, and T and 3/8" G thread on A and B.
The caliper shows 3/4 right? So I think this might be npt 3/4. I'll get something npt3/4 today and test it out.

Yeah, all ports are the same. The plug fits everywhere. I sent an email to vevor to see if they sell the sleeve. If not, then I'll just return the valve on the basis that this is clearly not what I ordered: wrong brand name and wrong port size
What size NPT do you think that is? You strat screwing things withmismatched threads togetehre and something is going to get roachesd.

The pipe size, thread size, and port size are not the same:

  • A male 3/8" NPT thread measures .675, 18 TPI, and has a 60 degree flank
  • A male 1/2" NPT thread measures .840, 14 TPI, and has a 60 degree flank
  • A male 3/8" BSPP thread measures .656, 19 TPI, and has a 55 degree flank
  • A male 1/2" BSPP thread measures .825, 14 TPI, and has a 55 degree flank
  • A male 3/8: SAE thread measures .562, 18 TPI, and has a 60 degree flank
  • A male 1/2" SAE thread measures .750, 16 TPI, and has a 60 degree flank
You need a good digital caliper or micrometer,and a thread pitch gauge with Whitworth and SAE blades for a positive ID.

Dan
 
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TheOldHokie

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I just found this thread: https://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/threads/understanding-hydraulic-circuits.55636/post-520733

It suggests that the P40 sleeve would work in a vevor valve. Except that user has 1/2" whereas I have 3/4
calling @Happy13 to chime in.
I participated in that thread and you are clearly confused by the port size naming conventions.

This is a P40G power beyond sleeve I just pulled off teh shelf. It has a 1/2" BSPP G thread and it measures .815.

The plug from your valve appears to have 3/8" BSPP G threads and as best I can tell from your picture measures close to the specification of .656

The P40G sleeve is not going to even start in your valve.

Dan

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TheOldHokie

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yeah, I like PrincessAuto for sure. But this valve would need to get a 88% rebate to match that price I found on Amazon. That's why I'm trying to make it work. It might be too good to be true, but I have to try. I'd be ok with 2 spools, but they are 350$ at princess. Maybe it's time to check on aliexpress
Magister in the US sells Badestnost P40 valves and will ship to Canada. A two spool valve with SAE ports is $126 USD and the power beyond sleeve is an additional $21,. They know their products and you won't be guessing about what you are buying or surprised when somethng different shows up. I suggest you get a shipping quote from them.


If they can't help you I can ship you one for $135 USD plus $57 USPS flat rate international priority mail postage,

Dan
 

TheOldHokie

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I sure am. I'll go to a local hydro shop today to sort this out
You don't need to go to a shop to relsolve this but you do need to stop plowing full steam ahead, slow down, and just listen for a moment.

The plug you took out of that valve has an oring on it - it is clearly not NPT.

We will exclude metric ports in general.

That reduces the possibilities to the very common BSPP or SAE. That can be resolved with an accurate thread mesurement;

SAE is going to be either .750 if #8 (1/2" tube) or .875 if #10 (5/8" tube)
BSPP is going to be either .656 if 3/8" pipe or .825 if 1/2" pipe

Based on the picture of the vernier caliper you posted it appears to be 3/8" BSPP which is what the product description said.

Dan
 

awesome

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SAE is going to be either .750 if #8 (1/2" tube) or .875 if #10 (5/8" tube)
BSPP is going to be either .656 if 3/8" pipe or .825 if 1/2" pipe

Based on the picture of the vernier caliper you posted it appears to be 3/8" BSPP which is what the product description said.

Dan
I don't have a better caliper, but I just went to a local hardware store and tried to fit this in a 1/2 NPTF pipe. It seems to be the correct size but the thread doesn't work. So it might actually be 3/8 like you say. I just read about the difference between BSPP/NPT and you're right, that's not NPT.

So 3/8" BSPP sounds like the best chance I can take. But now I guess there's the whole other problem of finding the right length? I'm not going to put too much effort in this, because like you said, I might just be SOOL.
 

TheOldHokie

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I don't have a better caliper, but I just went to a local hardware store and tried to fit this in a 1/2 NPTF pipe. It seems to be the correct size but the thread doesn't work. So it might actually be 3/8 like you say. I just read about the difference between BSPP/NPT and you're right, that's not NPT.

So 3/8" BSPP sounds like the best chance I can take. But now I guess there's the whole other problem of finding the right length? I'm not going to put too much effort in this, because like you said, I might just be SOOL.
The o-ring tells me with absolute certaintity that plug is not NPT. There is an infintesimal chance it could be a metric oring boss but that is so remote as to be nil. Its either BSPP or SAE o-ring boss and based on your measurement appears to be 3/8" BSPP.

I already said it once but I will repeat it again. Unless the seller can provide it you are not going to find a power beyond sleeve to fit that port. Power beyond sleeves are not standard port fittings. They are custom to the valve. Now that looks like a P40 valve but the inlet and outlet ports are one size smaller than standard. That leaves out a power beyond sleeve from one of them. I only see two viable ways forward for you:

  1. Use the tank port on that valve for power beyond. The worst that is going to happen is you put so much back pressure on the seals they give out and you have wasted your investment.
  2. Return that valve for a refund and buy something else with a power beyond and do it "right". I already gave you a source for a two spool P40 with a sleeve delivered for under $200
Dan
 

awesome

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  1. Return that valve for a refund and buy something else with a power beyond and do it "right". I already gave you a source for a two spool P40 with a sleeve delivered for under $200
Yep. And thank you for that. I did look into it. I might be able to get that shipped to the border and drive there. I was still hoping I could make it work for 100$ :)
 

mikester

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yeah, I like PrincessAuto for sure. But this valve would need to get a 88% rebate to match that price I found on Amazon. That's why I'm trying to make it work. It might be too good to be true, but I have to try. I'd be ok with 2 spools, but they are 350$ at princess. Maybe it's time to check on aliexpress
How much does it cost to rebuild your tractor hydraulic pump because of excess foundry sand/crud left in your dollar store valve as a factory option?
 
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awesome

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I ordered another valve with the matching sleeve.

But I still would like to find a sleeve for that cheap valve. I measured the plug with a digital caliper and it is indeed 3/8. The depth of the hole is about 1".

I'm thinking that a cheap valve like this has to be a clone of something else. They certainly did not engineer the design themselves. So maybe a cheap knock-off of p40 like you suggested previously. But is a p40 valve always 1/2 bspp? Or would it be possible to get a 3/8 bspp sleeve for a p40 valve? Only thing I couod find is 1/2.
 

TheOldHokie

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I ordered another valve with the matching sleeve.

But I still would like to find a sleeve for that cheap valve. I measured the plug with a digital caliper and it is indeed 3/8. The depth of the hole is about 1".

I'm thinking that a cheap valve like this has to be a clone of something else. They certainly did not engineer the design themselves. So maybe a cheap knock-off of p40 like you suggested previously. But is a p40 valve always 1/2 bspp? Or would it be possible to get a 3/8 bspp sleeve for a p40 valve? Only thing I couod find is 1/2.
I suspect it is of Chinese/Taiwanese origin. At one point I found several mainland Chinese companies making their version of the valve. It has an N port so its capable of power beyond but it is unique in that the N port is 3/8 BSPP. I do not know of any source for a sleeve to fit that - that would have to come from the manufacturer.

How bad do you want one. They are pretty simple machining - just a piece of hex bar with BSPP male thread and an o-ring on one end and a SAE port on the other. I could make one pretty quickly but not for a price you would want to pay.

Like I said before - your best option withthat valve is to use the tank port for power beyond and cross your fingers and hope the seals can handle it.

Dan
 

awesome

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I suspect it is of Chinese/Taiwanese origin. At one point I found several mainland Chinese companies making their version of the valve. It has an N port so its capable of power beyond but it is unique in that the N port is 3/8 BSPP. I do not know of any source for a sleeve to fit that - that would have to come from the manufacturer.

How bad do you want one. They are pretty simple machining - just a piece of hex bar with BSPP male thread and an o-ring on one end and a SAE port on the other. I could make one pretty quickly but not for a price you would want to pay.

Like I said before - your best option withthat valve is to use the tank port for power beyond and cross your fingers and hope the seals can handle it.

Dan
Yeah, maybe machining one is not worth it. The seller has refunded me and told me to keep the valve. So it's a useless valve sitting in my garage now. I have nothing to lose in trying to find an adapter. I'll read up about connecting the tank instead. I'll need to find some videos to understand how that works.
 
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TheOldHokie

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Yeah, maybe machining one is not worth it. The seller has refunded me and told me to keep the valve. So it's a useless valve sitting in my garage now. I have nothing to lose in trying to find an adapter. I'll read up about connecting the tank instead. I'll need to find some videos to understand how that works.
Not much to read up on. You simply use the tank port as your power beyond supply to the downstream circuit. You won't have a separate tank return line and all work ports will exhaust via power beyond so a down stream valve can block them. That happens all the time with Kubota loader valves that exhaust via power beyond.

The real issue is that the tank port is not designed for pressures much higher than 500 PSI and you risk blowing a spool seal or cracking the housing. I have seen many valves used this way and a few have developed seal leaks but never a cracked housing.

Dan
 
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JohnDB

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I suspect it is of Chinese/Taiwanese origin. At one point I found several mainland Chinese companies making their version of the valve. It has an N port so its capable of power beyond but it is unique in that the N port is 3/8 BSPP. I do not know of any source for a sleeve to fit that - that would have to come from the manufacturer.
That valve is definitely Chinese, I have one, only difference being that mine has a joystick. Looks to me like the calipers in the OP's photo are sitting on the neck of the plug which will be slightly less than the minor diameter of the thread, so it's possible that like mine, the ports are all 1/2" BSPP (although they were offered with the SAE option).

Since the valve owes @awesome nothing, getting a Power Beyond plug made may be worth it for resale or future use if not using tank port for PB. FWIW the valve I have performs well, I couldn't fault the appearance, the only thing I changed was the plastic handles on the levers had slightly rough edges that needed smoothing, easily done.
 

TheOldHokie

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That valve is definitely Chinese, I have one, only difference being that mine has a joystick. Looks to me like the calipers in the OP's photo are sitting on the neck of the plug which will be slightly less than the minor diameter of the thread, so it's possible that like mine, the ports are all 1/2" BSPP (although they were offered with the SAE option).

Since the valve owes @awesome nothing, getting a Power Beyond plug made may be worth it for resale or future use if not using tank port for PB. FWIW the valve I have performs well, I couldn't fault the appearance, the only thing I changed was the plastic handles on the levers had slightly rough edges that needed smoothing, easily done.
You have a valve you purchased from Vevor or you have one that looks like that? Is it marked with a country of origin?

This valve looks exactly like the OP's valve but I know for a fact it is not made in China - it is made in Bulgaria by Badesnost. I have used lots of those valves over the last 10+ years and they have all come frome Eastern Europe (Bulgaria, Poland, et.al.) Summit was and may still be selling Badesnost valves. I have even purchased direct from suppliers in those countires. The Chinese clones are relatively new to the market.

Dan

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awesome

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There is absolutely no markings on the valve, other than the vevor tag. Looking at similar valves online, they all look the same but they have a different tag. I'm pretty sure they all come from the same factory.

The last measurement I did, with the digital caliper, was on the thread itself. This gave me 3/8.

I'll try to find aome 3/8 bspp fitting somewhere just to stick it in and validate it.

How much would machining a sleeve be?
 

TheOldHokie

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There is absolutely no markings on the valve, other than the vevor tag. Looking at similar valves online, they all look the same but they have a different tag. I'm pretty sure they all come from the same factory.

The last measurement I did, with the digital caliper, was on the thread itself. This gave me 3/8.

I'll try to find aome 3/8 bspp fitting somewhere just to stick it in and validate it.

How much would machining a sleeve be?
I am not pretty sure. I am positive there are multiple different factories in multiple different countries making these valves.

Dan
 

TheOldHokie

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There is absolutely no markings on the valve, other than the vevor tag. Looking at similar valves online, they all look the same but they have a different tag. I'm pretty sure they all come from the same factory.

The last measurement I did, with the digital caliper, was on the thread itself. This gave me 3/8.

I'll try to find aome 3/8 bspp fitting somewhere just to stick it in and validate it.

How much would machining a sleeve be?
"How much would machining a sleeve be?"

Someone has to accurately measure and sketch up the features inside the port and then source the proper o-ring. Then I would say material plus a minimum of an hour shop labor - probably more like two - to machine the sleeve. In other words more than the cost of a replacement valve and sleeve.

At the risk of beating a dead and badly mutilated horse - find an OEM sleeve or use the tank port for PB.

Dan
 

awesome

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At the risk of beating a dead and badly mutilated horse - find an OEM sleeve or use the tank port for PB.

Dan
yeah absolutely. I'm trying to call a few distributors in Montreal to see if they would have anything.
I know there are other ways around it, and I've already ordered another valve. But I'm just being stuborn right now. I can't stand seeing that valve sitting useless in my garage. The T port is a great option, but I can't let it go until I've done everything I can to find a solution. I'll find a sleeve. I might spend 200$ on buying many of them until I find one, but I'll find one.
 

awesome

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I measured that wrong.
The depth of the hole is very close to 1"
That's bspp 1/2 right?
I'm not sure it's sae. I tried to screw in a 1/2 bolt in there and the thread doesn't match
 

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