MX5100 + Wallenstein BX62r = ???

[TheUnknownFarmer]

Hello, all. New member here.

I purchased an MX5100 this year, love the thing. FEL, 60" tiller. Before the tractor tiller, I had it in my head I could rip 100' rows with a front-tine tiller. Trying to cut through sandy loam in the Ozarks is ROUGH!

Anyway, we have tilled out a beautiful garden space, and now it is time to get it all set up. Irrigation is in the works. Just need something for weed control - mulch. I got an insanely good deal on a Wallenstein BX62r (model with hydraulic feed rollers), but my MX5100 did NOT have a rear remote standard. So, no problem. I purchased the a single-position kit from my dealer and installed it. However, things don't seem to be working correctly...

It seems as if working the rear remote lever opens the valve, directing the flow of fluid 'outward' through one port and 'inward through the other, creating a 'circuit'. The key here is that the rear remote lever needs to be manipulated for this to happen - it doesn't seem to be 'normally open' and rather 'normally closed'.

Now then, I hook up my hydraulics from the Wallenstein chipper, all of two lines/hoses. The hydraulic feed control is a black bar that is connected to the hopper. Pull it 'out' (toward you) and it is in 'forward'...feeding material into the hopper. Push it 'in' (away from you) and it is in 'reverse'...as an assist to back material out. If the lines are connected backwards, the controls are backwards - so it's easy to tell which way is correct. That said, with the tractor running, with the PTO engaged, manipulating the hydraulic feed control does...nothing. At least not unless I also physically manipulate the rear remote lever. But I can't be in two places at once so that would mean I would need to jam something there to keep the rear remote lever actuated...or have someone else on the tractor for just that task. Inconvenient and inefficient, to say the least.

I explained this to my dealer (or tried), and he said the hydraulic pump on the chipper itself was likely not compatible with my tractor. To this I say 'poppycock' since nothing in the Wallenstein literature indicates this at all. The only important clue I could find in the Wallenstein Operator's Manual was "Always connect to the hydraulic circuit with a detent."

So...do I need an additional rear remote kit configured differently for this? Am I doing something obviously wrong here?

Engaging the PTO, with my wife on the tractor manipulating the rear remote lever, with me on the ground operating the hydraulic feed control lever on the chipper, the Wallenstein makes VERY short work of whatever I put in it. Obviously, the equipment will work. I just can't believe that this is how it should operate. I mean, I've seen YouTube videos that indicate otherwise.

Help!

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

You answered your own question!

You need a valve with a detent, the detent locks the valve into a flow state, yet still provides the protection in case of a fault or a jam that it will kick the valve off due to over pressure.

I'll have to look and see if you can get a stock valve for the MX5100 that has a detent in it, if not your going to have to have a remote valve piped in to your tractors hydraulics that has a detent built into it.

This is one option for the type of valve needed if you need to pipe one in.
http://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydrau...-SD4-HYDRAULIC-MOTOR-CONTROL-VALVE-9-8464.axd

I'll also throw in the cheap option, but not safe option, use a bungee cord or strap to hold the valve open, I personally would only do this in a pinch!


Oh and you can tell your dealer he's an idiot , from me of course , the chipper doesn't have a pump that's why you need to hook it to the tractor, and use it's pump.

 

[TheUnknownFarmer]

Whew! So I'm not crazy after all!

Yes, I am hoping I simply didn't explain my situation well enough to the dealer. But...you never know.

I actually had this system operating by taking the seat belt 'male' side and sticking it into the rear remote lever slot to 'jam' it into the open position. Not for standard operation, but just as proof of concept when troubleshooting.

I checked the unit in the link you provided. Would that need to be operated in conjunction with the chipper's hydraulic feed control? I would appear so. Or, is this unit less of a 'lever' (like the rear remote lever on my tractor) and more of a 'switch' in that you set the position and it stays there?

And I suppose the better question to ask here is...how and where would I install this darn thing? As long as it comes with instructions, I'm sure I'll be fine. I DID get the rear remote kit installed! But best to ask someone that sounds like they've done this before.

I should also add that I only installed a 1st Remote Hydraulic kit. As per Kubota, ONLY the 2nd Remote Hydraulic kit can be a floating valve:
* "The floating valve can be attached as the second segment only."
It is my understanding that the floating valve has a detent. And this is what I also originally asked the dealer - do I just need the floating valve / 2nd Remote Hydraulic kit?


Thanks, North Idaho Wolfman!

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

If you ask me, you would be way better off adding the second block with float (detent) T14902, quick, simple, painless, why not the cheapest option, by far the best!
Piping in a non stock valve is a real PIA and would require custom parts to be made to make it work.

The only reason I could see why the first section can't use a float (detent) valve is that there is limited space under the valve in that area?

This first valve is the one you already installed right?
and the if so, the second would be the one you need to run the chipper properly.

T14901 valve no float

T14902 with float (detent)

One Note: I do believe this valve only floats (locks) in one direction so it would just be a matter of swapping lines if it locks in the wrong direction.

 

[TheUnknownFarmer]

This is why I signed up immediately here as a Lifetime Member. The support and knowledge base here is just unreal.

I did get a call back from my dealer, who spoke with several other folks. So, once we got some confusion straightened out he had a darned good explanation that was inline with what you're saying here, too.

I also figured that I can't be the first person to have ever had this problem...so I emailed Wallenstein directly. I woke up this morning to find a nice, detailed email from them providing several solutions - three of which you had mentioned! Here it is...

"What you are describing is common to all implements which require tractor hydraulics. They require constant flow from the tractor in order to be able to be operated from outside the tractor.
What is installed in your tractor is a spring-center valve, which shuts of when you let go of the lever. A detent valve locks open until you close it. There are 4 possible solutions:
1) Some owners bungee the tractor valve open
2) Add or change to a detent valve in your tractor
3) Add a circuit which supplies constant flow to the remotes, without a valve
4) Install our PTO pump kit, which does not require tractor hydraulics. This consists of a reservoir with internal hydraulic pump which bolts to the chipper frame, a drive pulley that fits on the rotor input shaft, a drive belt and the necessary fittings and fasteners.. This is probably the most expensive solution."

I have used Solution #1 to test 'proof of concept' with the chipper. Not an elegant solution, nor something I would want to employ long-term.

Solution #2 would be the easiest. And, I think you're right - the reason it can't be in the first position is due to space limitations at the hydraulic cylinder. If my thinking is correct, when this remote is detented, the 'float' is engaged, allowing the implement to operate independently. In the case of a skid or mower, 'floating along at ground level'. In the case of my chipper, the hydraulic feed lever becomes a 'manual float' allowing me to effectively tell the chipper when to stop and go.

Solution #3, as you described, would be the more complicated fix. Although I am keen to learn more about hydraulics, that may be a large leap for me!

Solution #4 is interesting. It would allow the hydraulic feed to function...but not rely on external (tractor-installed) hydraulics themselves. As the Wallenstein rep stated, though, it is expensive. Somewhere in the neighborhood of $1000-$1500.

I'm ordering the 2nd Rear Remote kit today. That's what I figured I'd need, but it was reassuring - and incredibly educational! - to get feedback here at OrangeTractorTalks.

Thanks again!