Major Fuel Issue

[RedRyder85]

Hey Guys,

It's my first time posting and I really appreciate any advice. I'm a new tractor owner. I have operated machinery all my life but this is my first purchase. We bought a m5660su brand new in spring 2020. We don't use it that often and I've only put 150hrs on her. As I mentioned, we don't use it that often and recently we went away for several months. When I got back to the property I started the tractor and began to do some mowing. The tractor started to smoke and struggle after just a couple minutes of run time and I immediately shut off the engine.

When I did a quick look over I noticed that the gas cap was off. The tractor is stored outside so I was certain there would be water in the tank... and there was. When I checked the water seperator it was full of water and debris. So, I dropped the diesel tank and cleaned it with air and flushing diesel through. I replaced the fuel filter and water separator filter and all went well with the installation. Next, I filled the tank with fresh diesel and added a biocide to the tank. I let that sit overnight and I drained the tank and refilled.
Now, I have bled the fuel system over a dozen times and I can't get it to turn over. I am following the user manual for proper fuel line air purging. Should I just keep on bleeding the system until it cranks? Anything else I should look for?

Ultimately, I can't get her to turn over and I'm worried. Please help!

 

[mcfarmall]

Cranking, turning over or firing? Spinning an engine with a battery powered starting motor would be "turning over" and/or "cranking". Firing is when fuel ignites in the cylinder of the engine. Inability to crank or turn over is different from the inability to fire...so does the engine crank and turn over but not fire?

 

[Fordtech86]

Are there any error codes displayed? Being common rail engine, if it got water into the high pressure pressure side you will likely have damage to fuel system. It should self bleed fairly easy, DO NOT go cracking injector lines on this to try to bleed the high pressure side. Im not familiar with the specific tractor.

Does the machine happen to have the Kubota insurance on it?

 

[RedRyder85]

Cranking, turning over or firing? Spinning an engine with a battery powered starting motor would be "turning over" and/or "cranking". Firing is when fuel ignites in the cylinder of the engine. Inability to crank or turn over is different from the inability to fire...so does the engine crank and turn over but not fire?

I apologize for the confusing amateur lingo. The engine cranks and turns over but won't fire.

 

[RedRyder85]

Are there any error codes displayed? Being common rail engine, if it got water into the high pressure pressure side you will likely have damage to fuel system. It should self bleed fairly easy, DO NOT go cracking injector lines on this to try to bleed the high pressure side. Im not familiar with the specific tractor.

Does the machine happen to have the Kubota insurance on it?

I have not seen any error codes on the dash. I did not Crack any injector lines. I followed the manual for bleeding the fuel line by opening a 10mm valve on the top of my fuel filter housing, switching ignition key to run for 1 min, close valve and attempt to start. It then tells me to repeat this process until the engine starts with 30 sec intervals between attempts. I have done this over a dozen times with no change. I feel like it shouldn't be this difficult so I wanted to ask before doing more harm.
No insurance

 

[Fordtech86]

I feel like it shouldn't be this difficult

A common rail engine isn’t that hard to bleed, unfortunately I have a feeling you have fuel system damage due to the water getting in the system.

 

[armylifer]

I have not seen any error codes on the dash. I did not Crack any injector lines. I followed the manual for bleeding the fuel line by opening a 10mm valve on the top of my fuel filter housing, switching ignition key to run for 1 min, close valve and attempt to start. It then tells me to repeat this process until the engine starts with 30 sec intervals between attempts. I have done this over a dozen times with no change. I feel like it shouldn't be this difficult so I wanted to ask before doing more harm.
No insurance

Does fuel come out of the bleeder valve? If fuel is not coming out of the bleeder valve then there is either a blockage in the fuel line or air still in the system.

 

[Pau7220]

Being common rail engine, if it got water into the high pressure pressure side you will likely have damage to fuel system.

1. Fordtech is probably correct
2. Wait for one of the techs to respond before proceeding to prevent any further damage
3. If the missing fuel cap is due to vandalism (or even accidental), it may be a homeowners claim since it sounds like personal property from your post. My policy covers 4 wheel vehicles used exclusively for property maintenance on the insured property.

 

[RedRyder85]

1. Fordtech is probably correct
2. Wait for one of the techs to respond before proceeding to prevent any further damage
3. If the missing fuel cap is due to vandalism (or even accidental), it may be a homeowners claim since it sounds like personal property from your post. My policy covers 4 wheel vehicles used exclusively for property maintenance on the insured property.

Thanks for the info.
I'll have to check our policy. We have usaa and they usually have good coverage.

 

[RedRyder85]

Does fuel come out of the bleeder valve? If fuel is not coming out of the bleeder valve then there is either a blockage in the fuel line or air still in the system.

No fuel is coming out. I've only loosened it the manual recommended two turns. Should I open it up further or remove?

 

[RedRyder85]

A common rail engine isn’t that hard to bleed, unfortunately I have a feeling you have fuel system damage due to the water getting in the system.

Good to know.
Knowing what I've done so far. What would your next step be to troubleshoot the issue?

 

[Fordtech86]

Good to know.
Knowing what I've done so far. What would your next step be to troubleshoot the issue?

Take it to a dealer. Not doubting your abilities, there really isn’t much you will be able to do short of guessing and possibly causing more damage. It likely needs to be hooked to the diagnostic equipment to figure out whats going on. If it turns out to be fuel system damage they will also have to perform IQA programming and likely other resets after the repair. Unfortunately not what you want to here, but likely in your best interest to have them look at it.

 

[armylifer]

No fuel is coming out. I've only loosened it the manual recommended two turns. Should I open it up further or remove?

I would not remove the bleeder screw at all. The two full turns should be enough. Your first step would be to determine if there is a blockage in the fuel line. Check to see if there is fuel getting to the filter. I am not familiar with your tractor, does your tractor have a second fuel filter? If it does, check to see if there is fuel getting to it. If it does not have a second fuel filter, then it is possible that you have more air in the line.

There is one more possibility, and that is the fuel pump. If enough sludge got into the fuel pump, it could either plug it up or kill it altogether. It may be worth your while to check if the fuel pump is working before going any further.

 

[Fordtech86]

I would not remove the bleeder screw at all. The two full turns should be enough. Your first step would be to determine if there is a blockage in the fuel line. Check to see if there is fuel getting to the filter. I am not familiar with your tractor, does your tractor have a second fuel filter? If it does, check to see if there is fuel getting to it. If it does not have a second fuel filter, then it is possible that you have more air in the line.

There is one more possibility, and that is the fuel pump. If enough sludge got into the fuel pump, it could either plug it up or kill it altogether. It may be worth your while to check if the fuel pump is working before going any further.

This is a common rail engine tractor, not a mechanical injection engine. Very easily damaged, and very expensive to repair.

 

[armylifer]

This is a common rail engine tractor, not a mechanical injection engine. Very easily damaged, and very expensive to repair.

Then would his tractor have at least two fuel pumps and two filters?

 

[Fordtech86]

Then would his tractor have at least two fuel pumps and two filters?

at least 2 pumps (think some have 3) and believe it will have two filters, one is a water seperator and the other one will be a more fine filter ahead of the high pressure fuel pump. Those high pressure pumps are very susceptible to damage with small amounts of water. Mechanical injection systems are far more forgiving.

 

[armylifer]

at least 2 pumps (think some have 3) and believe it will have two filters, one is a water seperator and the other one will be a more fine filter ahead of the high pressure fuel pump. Those high pressure pumps are very susceptible to damage with small amounts of water. Mechanical injection systems are far more forgiving.

Thanks I appreciate the information. Just for peace of mind I must agree with you about taking the tractor to the dealer. The cost is going to be high but a heck of a lot less than destroying the tractor.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Take it to a dealer and hope for the best!
Water in a Common Rail engine is not good!

 

[RedRyder85]

I would not remove the bleeder screw at all. The two full turns should be enough. Your first step would be to determine if there is a blockage in the fuel line. Check to see if there is fuel getting to the filter. I am not familiar with your tractor, does your tractor have a second fuel filter? If it does, check to see if there is fuel getting to it. If it does not have a second fuel filter, then it is possible that you have more air in the line.

There is one more possibility, and that is the fuel pump. If enough sludge got into the fuel pump, it could either plug it up or kill it altogether. It may be worth your while to check if the fuel pump is working before going any further.

I'll cthe fuel line and pump

I would not remove the bleeder screw at all. The two full turns should be enough. Your first step would be to determine if there is a blockage in the fuel line. Check to see if there is fuel getting to the filter. I am not familiar with your tractor, does your tractor have a second fuel filter? If it does, check to see if there is fuel getting to it. If it does not have a second fuel filter, then it is possible that you have more air in the line.

There is one more possibility, and that is the fuel pump. If enough sludge got into the fuel pump, it could either plug it up or kill it altogether. It may be worth your while to check if the fuel pump is working before going any further.

Thanks for the info!
It does have two filters or rather a water seperator with a simple screen filter first followed by a more fine particle filter. I replaced both of those. When I re-opened the fuel line I have no flowing gas so I might just have a blockage in the line leading from the tank to the water seperator.

 

[RedRyder85]

Take it to a dealer. Not doubting your abilities, there really isn’t much you will be able to do short of guessing and possibly causing more damage. It likely needs to be hooked to the diagnostic equipment to figure out whats going on. If it turns out to be fuel system damage they will also have to perform IQA programming and likely other resets after the repair. Unfortunately not what you want to here, but likely in your best interest to have them look at it.

Thanks for the reply. I can always hope it's something simple like a line clog but I won't dive deep into it. I appreciate the advice.