M8200 injection pump dead?

[superspec]

Hi everyone!

My dad managed to run his tractor out of fuel again today. 2nd time in 6 months! I'm about ready to disown him. Anyway I bleed the lines last time per Vics video and perfect everything ran fine until today. Dad ran it out again and called me to bail him out.

I go and get 5 gal of fuel and we fill it up. It cranked and idled fairly low and eventually died. Great lets bleed the lines and we can both be on our way. I pulled all of the lines and started rolling it over. From left to right #1 and 2 bubbled and bubbled and bubbled. #3 bubbled a little then stopped. #4 did nothing at all.

Is the injection pump dead? I would love to hear a yes or no but I don't think it'll be that easy and I would rather not spend half my day in a blacktop parking lot tomorrow trying to convince him that turning the engine over 1 more time isn't going to fix it.

I appreciate your help!

Charles

 

[Bulldog]

Did you use the hand pump to prime the fuel filter?

After I do that on my 9000 I loosen the hollow bolt where the fuel line goes in the injector pump and bump the starter a few times until fuel squirts out. Tighten the bolt down and most of the time it will fire right up.

I may have just been lucky but I have never had to loosen the injector lines in mine to bleed the fuel system.

 

[superspec]

We didn't open the filter up. we pulled the water canister off and it had some water in it but it never did fill back up.

Tomorrow we are going to change the fuel filter and check the fuel flow from the tank. We didn't have the tools today to do any work and i had to get home to catch my daughter from the bus.

Hopefully he will have it done tomorrow before I get done with Thanksgiving lunch at school.

 

[superspec]

Did you use the hand pump to prime the fuel filter?

After I do that on my 9000 I loosen the hollow bolt where the fuel line goes in the injector pump and bump the starter a few times until fuel squirts out. Tighten the bolt down and most of the time it will fire right up.

I may have just been lucky but I have never had to loosen the injector lines in mine to bleed the fuel system.

what is this hand pump you speak of? there is a knob at the top of the filter that spins to no end and has like a clicky sound/feel to it.

 

[Bulldog]

The knob/button on top of the primary filter is a pump. Push it down and it pulls fuel to the filter as it comes back to the top. It only moves about 1/4 inch or so but it doesn't take as long as you may think to fill the filters.

It's by far not the best design I have seen and is placed in a bad location but it will prime your fuel system. If you pump the filters up and loosen the line going into the injector pump so the air can escape it shouldn't take but a few minutes to crank it up.

 

[superspec]

Thank you sir. give me a gas burner and I'm fine but diesel is still fairly new to me. I've done compound turbos and programmer stacks on dads cummins but the fuel system is still stock...at least until I move him to twin cp3 pumps.

 

[superspec]

Ok, today we went back and changed the fuel filter and got nothing. Then we started popping lines. All lines appear to be clear as air can pretty easily be moved through any line. I even blew from the filler neck through both tanks and made noise around the pump area.

is there a fuel pump to feed fuel to the injector pump? how is the injector pump fed? we are at a complete loss here. The tractor is sitting in a strip mall parking lot in a not so great area. A 15 ft bush hog is attached with both wings down. Basically we have to get it running just to get it out of there.

Here are some pics: all lines that look to be out of place were just placed back on to get openings clean.

#1


#2


#3

 

[superspec]

The only lines that we didnt move air through were the little lines off of the top of the fuel filter...im guessing 1/8 lines?

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

this is the fuel pump/lift pump:




Why are the lines not clamped? That could be part of the problem.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Quick run down for you:
Shut fuel shutoff on the top of the filter off, remove filter and cover turn on fuel shut off, if you get fuel great shut back off, if not then your problem is before the filter, line or plugged tank.

If fuel at filter then, reassemble but do not tighten, open fuel shut off fill filter housing till it starts to leak tighten filter.

Remove both hoses off the pump but note where they came from, should have fuel going to lift pump connect that hose and give it a quick crank should have fuel coming out of lift pump , pulsing, if just slow flow or none bad lift pump. (swap the lines just to make sure they aren't swapped look for pump in and out)

If it flows then reconnect lines loosen bolt with 7 on head while cranking fuel should flow/pulse, tighten, loosen lines at injectors not top of injection pump, crank till fuel flows.

OK if the filter lines lift pump are bad you can limp it home by connecting a fuel bottle or can from higher than the injection pump and connect a line to the #7 bolt hose fitting.

 

[Bulldog]

Did you find the pump on top of the primary filter?

After your filters are full the bolt with the "7" on it in the first pic is the one you need to loosen, then bump the starter until fuel comes out. Normally won't take but 2 or 3 times. After that I tighten the bolt down and mine will crank right up. A few times I have had to bleed it off 2x but it normally just cranks right up.

Just for the sake of asking, when you turn the key to the start position do you hear the fuel shut off solinoid (click) engage just before the starter kicks in?

 

[superspec]

this is the fuel pump/lift pump:
View attachment 8983

View attachment 8984

Why are the lines not clamped? That could be part of the problem.

as I said in the previous post we just closed the line so nothing would get in during the night.

I appreciate your explanations! we have blown through every rubber line and can't seem to get any fuel to the number 3 and 4 injector line.

Is the fuel/lift pump like and old mechanical fuel pump that is run off of the crank?

 

[superspec]

Did you find the pump on top of the primary filter?

After your filters are full the bolt with the "7" on it in the first pic is the one you need to loosen, then bump the starter until fuel comes out. Normally won't take but 2 or 3 times. After that I tighten the bolt down and mine will crank right up. A few times I have had to bleed it off 2x but it normally just cranks right up.

Just for the sake of asking, when you turn the key to the start position do you hear the fuel shut off solinoid (click) engage just before the starter kicks in?

I haven't noticed a click bu I am used to hearing the buzz of an electric fuel pump prime.

 

[superspec]

I'm not sure of the workings of the lift pump but if it makes any difference the right side hose (with the half moon shape ) had no fuel residue in it. it was completely dry. I'm guessing it is for a vacuum ref. but I could for sure be wrong esp. on diesel!

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

The lift pump/ fuel pump runs off the same cam as the injection pump.

I don't get what you mean by blown threw the lines, the lines should all be full of fuel?
If the lines to the pump are dry then fuel is not getting to the pump.

Remove the line that goes to the right side does fuel flow out of it?

 

[Bulldog]

I haven't noticed a click bu I am used to hearing the buzz of an electric fuel pump prime.

I can't say about yours but my 9000 has a very noticable "click" just before the starter engages. If it doesn't engage there will be no fuel going thru the injector pump.

 

[superspec]

The lift pump/ fuel pump runs off the same cam as the injection pump.

I don't get what you mean by blown threw the lines, the lines should all be full of fuel?
If the lines to the pump are dry then fuel is not getting to the pump.

Remove the line that goes to the right side does fuel flow out of it?

No sir, the line on the right side of the lift pump was dry as a bone. So dry that it looked like fuel has never run through it.

I physically put my mouth on all of the fuel lines today and blew through them. We are stuck in the middle of a commercial parking lot so a compressor isn't handy.

 

[superspec]

OK game plan for tomorrow is to gravity feed it and limp it onto the trailer and get it to either my house or dads house where we have all of the tools we need plus it isn't sitting in a parking lot for whoever to tow or rob parts from. We have been taking the battery out just to keep someone from stealing a yellow top.

 

[Tx Jim]

I'll bet debris in tank is blocking fuel flow. I'd blow compressed air back through fuel line from filter to tank. I once owned a M4900 that had a small screen in water separater control valve that was plugged blocking fuel flow.

 

[superspec]

I'll bet debris in tank is blocking fuel flow. I'd blow compressed air back through fuel line from filter to tank. I once owned a M4900 that had a small screen in water separater control valve that was plugged blocking fuel flow.

all lines are clear.