M4700 & Transmission Grinding

[kajun]

Sorry to ask such another basic question . But my M4700 grinds when shifting up unless I come to complete stop . I've been using an IH 444 for 35 years and it grinds a little too. But this Kubota is newer and I am put off by the grinding [ $$ want to protect my investment ] . Do I need Kubota lessons ?

I can shift my 444 in about 1/3 the time it takes to shift my M4700.

Does the clutch need adjusting or should I just learn to come to a complete stop ?

Obliged for any help.

Kajun

 

[Bulldog]

It's been a while since I read anything on that model but seems like those may have had either a semi synchronized or maybe not synchronized at all. My L3000 grinds just a little when I shift and it really bugs me as well. My experience it seems to help to shift slow instead of just jamming it in there.

The 444 is a different beast. That was when IH made a real tractor that would last. I grew up with a 484 and wish I still had it now. Great little tractors.

 

[Tx Jim]

According to parts catalog the M4700 trans has synchronizers so my guess is traction clutch isn't releasing good(maybe warped) or synchronizers are worn. Have you checked clutch pedal free travel? Another possibility is a faulty pilot brg.

 

[scdeerslayer]

Does it do that on every gear? Could be just partially synchronized. Get a manual if you don't have one to find out.

On my MX 3 and 4 are synchronized, so you take off in 2, then shift to 3 and 4. You can't shift from 1 to 2 while moving.

 

[Bulldog]

How long has it been since the tranny was serviced?

What fluid did you use when it was done?

 

[kajun]

Thanks for all the help . Tractor has fresh fluids and filters . Unit only has 250 hrs on it . Old fluid was like new when removed .

Grinding isn't horrible ; only more pronounced than I would have thought . No grinding at all if at complete stop ; less grinding when downshifting instead of upshifting .

Have operators manual ; do not have shop manual .

Deeply obliged to all .

 

[Bulldog]

What rpm's do you shift at?

My M9000 doesn't matter as much but my L3000 it's critical. The L shifts much better at lower rpm's instead of high. It still grinds just a little but no where near as bad.

Have you checked the free travel on the clutch pedal?

 

[rbargeron]

How long has gear grinding been happening? Have you owned it since new? It sounds like there's something making too much friction between rolling parts along the mainshaft, preventing the synchronizing rings from working right. They depend on free rotation of the gears. If rolling resistance is too high the rings can't overcome it.

The mainshaft should be disassembled and inspected for causes of frictional drag. Something's causing a "tight stack". Could be a bad thrust bearing, bad needle bearings, even an assembly error if it's done it since new. The grinding might "wear-in" eventually and decrease, or it could get worse as surfaces deteriorate from metal micro-dust in the oil. As always, prompt cheerful refund if theory is bogus. Take care, Dick B.

 

[BamaFarmer]

I have a m5400 pretty much same tractor. It is semi synchronized. You can only up and down shift 3rd and 4th gears in either high or low side. Gears 1-2 are not synchronized. Hope this helps.

 

[kajun]

Again , men obliged for the continuing help.

This is new-to-me-tractor . I have about 10 hours experience as operator. Tractor is 20 years old but brand-new , as it were [ 254 hours ]. I suspect it sat outside for much of its 20 years but it appears to truly have only 254 hours on it.

I have confirmed by closer reading that gears 3-4 [ 7-8 ] are synchronized . It doesn't however operate in these speeds as if synchronized . I could be having IH444 withdrawal because I never reduce throttle to change between gears on it or to select high or low range . Yes the IH444 crashes a little in these operations but not much . Been doing it for many years with no effect yet on the IH44.

So I am intrigued by some of your suggestions . Now that I have them , I'll see what happens in the next 10 hours of operation on the M4700 and report back.

Triply obliged.

 

[BamaFarmer]

Use the foot throttle at traveling speeds so when you shift the rpms drop as would in a vehicle.

 

[kajun]

OK , Men :

It's time for follow-up.

I have another 10 hours on unit and there is no improvement . The way I use this tractor makes it important that I shift at full throttle . I also should say I lack real mechanical skill [ i.e. I don't understand how ,as a matter of engineering , synchronizer's work ]. I have operated farm machinery , however, for sixty years.

Now here is skinny-- I state the problem on scale of 0 -10; 10 means transmission acts as if one has not clutched tractor at all ; 0 means engages soundlessly [ all scenarios are with wide open throttle ]:

1. Shifting up from gear 3 to 4 and 7-8 by braking to complete stop and clutching - 0

2. Shifting up from gear 3 to 4 and 7-8 by simply clutching while underway -2-3

3. Stopping tractor , putting shift lever in neutral with high-low-reverse lever anywhere including neutral , then clutching and trying to shift into 3 or 4 - rates a 9 [ almost impossible to do ]

Scenario 3 really frustrates me . I'm too mechanically challenged , probably , to understand but I would really like to know what causes this on
a tractor I believe is at top of engineering spectrum.

If I seem too picayunish , please overlook and forgive.

As before , obliged for any insight or guidance .

Kajun

 

[Bulldog]

Not judging, just curious. What are you doing or why do you need to shift at full throttle?

I don't think there's anything wrong with your tractor but due to design it's not going to improve either. You may be happier with a (if you can find one) GST, a hyd shuttle or the (bad as I hate to say) HST any of which would mean getting a different tractor.

 

[scdeerslayer]

So scenario #3 you can't get it into 3 or 4 while stopped and double clutching? Something's not right there. Why double clutch though? In similar scenarios in older tractors I've found that you can get them to shift easier by letting the clutch almost all the way out or shifting to a different gear first.

I agree to use the foot throttle while up shifting when road traveling. I'll get up to speed in top gear then set the hand throttle.

 

[kajun]

Thanks Bulldog and scdeerslayer.

Scenario 3 is just an irritation . I have no real reason to put levers there in ordinary operations. I just don't think a sophisticated tractor like this ought to pose difficulty in shifting in that scenario .

I am a hobby farmer . I use tractor to mow about 25 acres with a large finish mower. My time for mowing is limited . I encounter bogs , grasses of various toughness and trees . Therefore I shift up and down to accommodate for these pretty regularly . Difficulty in shifting makes my work less efficient .Reducing throttle would make it even less efficient . That is how I did it with my IH 444 and that is how I want to do it with my M4700 :>).

The M4700 brakes wonderfully so Scenario 1 , here we go on the long haul.

I do appreciate the guidance. You guys are champs. Obliged x 4

 

[Bulldog]

Makes sense now on the full throttle shifting. I mower with my L3000 and I normally just find one gear and stay there for the most part. Mine grinds a little which I don't care for but nothing can be done that I know of.