I have a leaks going on my Woods 1027 Loader on my 2005 M6800 Tractor that has less than 500 hours. The Loader is controlled by a HUSCO 2 spool 5000-8323 Control Valve. I placed a gage on the rear implement connector and opened the rear valve and operated the Loader and the pressure seemed steady around 2500psi (wasn't sure proper way to test it but seemed to work). Where the flex hoses from Controller connect to the rigid tubes of Loader leaks badly (steady stream) especially when travel is maxed out on the up and down and tilt travel. Not sure where to go from here. Kind of hate to start replacing hoses not knowing for sure this will solve the issue. See pictures attached. Any suggestions? Thanks!
Loader Hydraulic Leak
- Thread starter ZD326S
- Start date
North Idaho Wolfman
Moderator
Staff member
Lifetime Member
Equipment
L3450DT-GST, Woods FEL, B7100 HSD, FEL, 60" SB, 743 Bobcat with V2203, and more
You have several picture posted, not real sure where you say your leak is really.
Is it at a fitting or ???
If it's a fitting, loosen the fitting completely clean both ends and tighten using 2 wrenches, and on a woods loader they must be very tight (I have a similar loader on mine).
Is it at a fitting or ???
If it's a fitting, loosen the fitting completely clean both ends and tighten using 2 wrenches, and on a woods loader they must be very tight (I have a similar loader on mine).
The worst leaks are where the flex hoses from the Control Valve attach to the Loaders rigid tubing (at the fittings at top of Loader closest to the cab). I've also noticed smaller leaks at some of the other connections both ends of the cylinder hoses (always at fittings). All of these showing up at the same time led me to checking the pressure. First time I've checked the pressure so wasn't sure exactly what is the recommended procedure for this problem, so I checked it at the rear of tractor figuring the pressure would be same throughout the system. Already took the fittings apart twice and cleaned them and torqued them using 2 wrenches. Didn't do any polishing just wiping clean. Appreciate any suggestions/thoughts before I go into buying new hoses...... I will try applying more torque first. Just wondered if it was a common problem for these setups? This is the first tractor I've owned so I'm getting schooled as I go and appreciate reading from the more expierenced owners here!
North Idaho Wolfman
Moderator
Staff member
Lifetime Member
Equipment
L3450DT-GST, Woods FEL, B7100 HSD, FEL, 60" SB, 743 Bobcat with V2203, and more
Spray off any leaky connections and see if it's leaking under the nut or behind the nut on the connecting hose.
The way i seat my hoses are to make the snug, then twist them back and forth to seat them all the way in the fitting, then tighten.
I have had some of my hoses start to seep behind the fitting where it's crushed to the hose, the only fix for that leak is to replace the hose assembly.
To check pressure on the FEL plumbing connect a Gauge (With a tee if no Quick connects) on one of the loader lines and get a reading there, it shouldn't be higher that the rear, but it does have it's own pressure relief valve setting.
The way i seat my hoses are to make the snug, then twist them back and forth to seat them all the way in the fitting, then tighten.
I have had some of my hoses start to seep behind the fitting where it's crushed to the hose, the only fix for that leak is to replace the hose assembly.
To check pressure on the FEL plumbing connect a Gauge (With a tee if no Quick connects) on one of the loader lines and get a reading there, it shouldn't be higher that the rear, but it does have it's own pressure relief valve setting.
Last edited:
Appreciate the advice, Thanks! I'll pick up some more fittings so that I can check the pressure out of the Control Valve of the Loader by T-ing into each line to get the pressure. I've suspected the HUSCO 2 spool Control Valve but I do not know how to tell when one needs to be rebuilt. I'll do some of these suggestions and see where it goes. Thanks again! If you know how a faulty Control Valve behaves I would be interested to hear that.
North Idaho Wolfman
Moderator
Staff member
Lifetime Member
Equipment
L3450DT-GST, Woods FEL, B7100 HSD, FEL, 60" SB, 743 Bobcat with V2203, and more
The FEL valve isn't bad, they don't go bad and make too much pressure.
Someone could have turned the pressure relief valve up to get more lift out of it, that would make over pressure on the outputs.
You don't need to check it at different locations, it's going to be the same at all 4 outputs, just check one output.
Someone could have turned the pressure relief valve up to get more lift out of it, that would make over pressure on the outputs.
You don't need to check it at different locations, it's going to be the same at all 4 outputs, just check one output.
No need to do more pressure tests.
To do a pressure test, you just need to use a simple gauge with a quick coupler fitting like this and the test, like you did, is done in seconds.
With 500 hrs the Husco valve is fine. It is not something needing a "seal" kit but rather the tolerance or clearances between the spools and their bores in the valve block are so tiny so no leaks in general.
Do what NIW suggested about cleaning first, tightening fittings and then determine exactly where the leaks are.
You need to be aware of this caution when working around hydraulic leaks.
Dave
Okay I'll check the pressure at just one point on the Loader after I get the fittings from my local Hydraulic company. I have a gage exactly like you have pictured but mine is a 0-5000 psi, picked it up for $25 or so at this Hydraulic company. Thanks again for the comments and advice. At least now I feel like I'm making some headway. Is there anything people use to replace these flared and compression fittings? I know in plumbing they make these sharkbite fittings but they don't near deal with these high pressures either. Just wondering what options are available. And thanks about the hydraulic pressure warning! If I wanted to hit these joints to shine them up a little what would you suggest using?
Sorry, I am sometimes not making myself as clear as I think I do.
You do NOT need any more pressure tests after the one you already did.
The reason goes like this. Hydraulic systems on a tractor may have one or two pumps. Some with two pumps have one piggy backed unto the first one and they both share the same suction line. This design has one pump for the power steering and the second for a FEL, rear remote and 3 pt hitch.
The FEL valve is feeding the rear remotes and the 3 pt hitch using a power beyond port on the FEL valve. If your loader valve has a total of 7 lines, it has power beyond.
Right now what you need to know is the direction of hydraulic flow. Pump to FEL then FEL valve feeds the rear remotes and 3 pt.
With only one pump and power steering, the pump output first goes to a priority flow control valve before the FEL. This priority valve reserves to the steering system the necessary amount of hydraulic flow so it will always operate then to the FEL and on as I described.
The system as described above has two relief valves. The first one is in the FEL valve. The second is in the rear of the tractor near the rear remotes.
When the pressure test at the rear remotes if good, you already know the relief valve in the FEL is good otherwise it would bleed off pressure heading to the rear remotes. If you measures the rear remote pressure and it is low, you don't know which of the two relief valves is set too low.
Now you start measuring the pressure at the FEL and adjusting its relief pressure. Once it is at the proper level of psi, then you go to the rear remote and where the pressure was previously low, now because of the relief adjustment at the FEL, the pressure at the remotes is likely just right.
The fittings NIW (Wolfman) describes are flared fittings not compression fittings. Have you ever replaced a metal brake line on a car or truck. The metal tubes have a double flare on each end. In either case, your tractor or your car, there is no need for teflon tape, pipe dope, etc, as the seal is accomplished by two very smooth metal surfaces being pressed together with a high force.
I don't have access to NIW's post but you should re read it carefully.
You need to clean off the oil and crud around where the leak or leaks have been happening. Brake clean in a spray can is an easy way to do the cleaning. A solvent and a brush and clean rag is another.
Thoroughly clean because now you can see exactly where the leak is emerging.
The rubber hoses are crimped at very force levels to secure the hose to the metal fitting on the end. It is possible but rarely seen that the leak is between the rubber hose and the metal fitting to which it is crimped.
Much more likely the metal fitting on the end of the hose was not tightened enough unto its mating part.
Clean, tighten each joint, run the tractor and come back if you have a fix or do not have a fix.
Those on forums who are giving to others the benefit of their knowledge and experience feel disrespected when an owner who came for help, found a solution, and never reported back.
You will not be having to replace anything.
Never use plumbing fittings on a hydraulic system say for example to Tee a pressure gauge into a line.
Dave
Took them apart used brake cleaner and done a little polishing put back together using 2 wrenches and same result. It is leaking behind nut of the flex hoses that come from the Control Valve (see picture, it's leaking where my finger is pointing). Even noticed that there's a steady stream on the fittings down by Control Valve (2nd picture). Under normal operation there's not any leaks at these joints (or if there is it's very small) but it's when the travel is maxed out and held a little longer after max....it 's a steady stream. So I am back to thinking there's a kink in the relief system. Like I said I'm a novice on working on tractors and have a lot to learn but I don't mind working on them and to learning and appreciate the input. Any thoughts? Maybe I need to do the pressure check again?
Attachments
North Idaho Wolfman
Moderator
Staff member
Lifetime Member
Equipment
L3450DT-GST, Woods FEL, B7100 HSD, FEL, 60" SB, 743 Bobcat with V2203, and more
Dave I'll have to disagree with you as there are three pressure relief valves on that loader / tractor set up, he only tested it on the main (three point pressure relief) and the loader uses a different pressure relive valve (and yes a separate return) either at the front block or on the loader valve it'self.
So testing at the FEL output is critical to this setup.
It's not a stock Kubota FEL but a Woods FEL and things are setup a little different, I know because I have one.
If it's leaking at anywhere your fingers are pointing you have bad lines, and will need to replace them.
I'll repeat, highly unlikely that you have a pressure issue as the hoses are 3000PSI the metal lines are in the 10000PSI range and the fittings should hold about 5000PSI.
So in the event of an over pressure point the lines would fail first.
Every time I've seen these hoses leak like that they were pulled, like someone forgot to disconnect them and backed away from the loader and stretched them.
So testing at the FEL output is critical to this setup.
It's not a stock Kubota FEL but a Woods FEL and things are setup a little different, I know because I have one.
If it's leaking at anywhere your fingers are pointing you have bad lines, and will need to replace them.
I'll repeat, highly unlikely that you have a pressure issue as the hoses are 3000PSI the metal lines are in the 10000PSI range and the fittings should hold about 5000PSI.
So in the event of an over pressure point the lines would fail first.
Every time I've seen these hoses leak like that they were pulled, like someone forgot to disconnect them and backed away from the loader and stretched them.
If you look at the pictures I first posted you will notice that one of the top (with red tape) hoses has a different setup as the others, the metal crimp goes to the threads. This line doesn't seem to give me problems. My local hydraulic company said to bring the other hoses in and they would cut the current fitting off and put the same crimped fitting on the other three, so that's the plan (I have more than enough length to spare). Funny how the longer you look at something over and over little things seem to come to the surface (like why didn't I notice that from the start....usually something simple). So we will see next week. I probably have been taxing this Loader pulling big fence posts out of the ground.... and it takes a lot to get them out......and I have removed several and have plenty to go. A lot of beating and banging with it...... but...is this abuse? Probably wasn't designed with this in mind but, bottom line is, I don't know, seemed like the best option I had. Any thoughts on this? Am I to hard on it? Again appreciate the input!
North Idaho Wolfman
Moderator
Staff member
Lifetime Member
Equipment
L3450DT-GST, Woods FEL, B7100 HSD, FEL, 60" SB, 743 Bobcat with V2203, and more
I've used mine to pull, lift, drag and muscle just about every thing from a dead trucks and equipment, stumps the size of a Volkswagen bug, huge trees, and a ton of other things, without any damage!
The Woods loader is actually made heavier than the Kubota loader, it's designed more like a industrial loader.
Just keep it well greased and all the bolts and hardware tight and you should not have an issue.
The Woods loader is actually made heavier than the Kubota loader, it's designed more like a industrial loader.
Just keep it well greased and all the bolts and hardware tight and you should not have an issue.
That's good to know the Loader is like an industrial Loader! Thanks NIW, and Dave too for the input and help! The hoses did get pinched in the lift boom/cylinder here while back and I replaced one of the hoses. I was so focused on the pinched areas that I didn't give any thought about the hoses being stretched at the fittings. At least it's a good possibility that it caused the problem! Another question on this setup. Sometime back I thought one of my tilt cylinders was leaking but it turns out to be the fitting (the lower part of the cylinder, and is still leaking). Are there o-rings used with these fittings or anything unique about them? Thanks!
North Idaho Wolfman
Moderator
Staff member
Lifetime Member
Equipment
L3450DT-GST, Woods FEL, B7100 HSD, FEL, 60" SB, 743 Bobcat with V2203, and more
Some of the cylinder fittings do have O-rings, others have crush washers.
Pull it apart and take a look at it.
NIW, I went back to the first post in the thread trying to understand where I missed the obvious Woods Loader Information. My only justification (hope I have this fact correct) is that a HUSCO FEL valve is present.
A short time ago, I was trying to help the owner of an older Kubota with factory FEL. The owner had the HUSCO identifying information but could find no information about being able to provide power beyond from the HUSCO valve.
Trying to help him, I personally contacted HUSCO and provided the label info.
HUSCO's reply was that their valve was a KUBOTA OEM valve and they would not provide any information nor support. Any needs of the owner were Kubota's responsibility. It was the HUSCO name in the post that sent me off in the wrong direction
Being able to explain my mistake only makes me feel a little better by having an explanation.
My apologies to the owner for misleading him.
Dave
All is good and I realize the good intentions! Thank you both! I feel like I've got a grip on it now! Where as I was suspecting everything with my limited knowledge/experience I've always believe first it's usually something simple (usually)! Lots of good advice here on this forum for people like me! Thanks again!
For your leaking cylinder, remove it for the tractor and remove the end cap. Take some pictures so you have evidence of how it was in case you need that for re-assembly. Remove the rod from the housing. You can then remove the two components on the rod. Pull out the seals inside the head and all the o-rings and seals from the outside.
I discovered if I take the parts to the hydraulic shop I get better price and service on parts. I just replace seals in two lift cylinders for a skid steer. Internet prices were $14-$30, Bobcat was $40, hyd. shop was $11.
It's not brain surgery, just need a clean area to work. If you do the project post some pictures of the end of the cylinder. There are several types of end caps. Each one is fixed in a different fashion. Someone will be able to help with how they come off.
I discovered if I take the parts to the hydraulic shop I get better price and service on parts. I just replace seals in two lift cylinders for a skid steer. Internet prices were $14-$30, Bobcat was $40, hyd. shop was $11.
It's not brain surgery, just need a clean area to work. If you do the project post some pictures of the end of the cylinder. There are several types of end caps. Each one is fixed in a different fashion. Someone will be able to help with how they come off.
Thanks D2Cat but I believe mine is just leaking at the fitting attached to the cylinder and not the cylinder itself. I've also found out about prices around town and internet. Had a hard time locally finding a hydraulic pressure gage, no one had them or had to order them at $90. Called local Winnelson and they didn't have them and they pointed to our local hydraulic shop (like duh on my part) and they had several of them $25 each. I was thrilled!