Lifting 5gal cans of diesel fuel a problem

robert2601

Member
Aug 18, 2021
45
15
8
Afton,Tn
I'm not selling anything. I simply made a suggestion to use a product to help in the process of fueling a tractor since many people were complaining about not being able to lift or hold 5 gallons of fuel.

Thanks for the warm welcome though.
I sincerely appreciate your suggestion as well as the others here. I still havent made up my mind yet but I sure do have a lot of options to choose from. Thanks for sharing your opinion.
 

FTG-05

Active member

Equipment
L4330 w/FEL
Jul 21, 2013
180
38
28
TN
I have that same 50 gal tank, it say's it's not rated for combustibles, how did you make it safe?
What's the difference between a tank rated for combustibles and one that is not?

There's your answer.
 

ACDII

Well-known member

Equipment
B2410, L352 Loader, Woods BH70-X backhoe
Oct 21, 2021
603
369
63
Illinois
What's the difference between a tank rated for combustibles and one that is not?

There's your answer.

Well, deep dive and one will see what the difference is. Diesel is combustible. Throw a match in it and the match will go out. Gasoline is a Flammable, toss a match at it and it explodes.

A tank rated for combustibles have simple vent systems since Diesel doesn't evaporate like Gasoline does, especially in hot weather. The tank rated Combustible only will vent the fumes creating an explosion hazard, and therefore are illegal to store gasoline in. It must be UL listed in order to carry class 3 fuels.

Thats the simple part. The complex part is now in transporting such fuels. There are rules from the FMCSA that restrict how much fuel of a certain type can be transported without requiring hazmat endorsements and placards, as well as the type of containers used to transport the fuels.

Then there are Federal DOT and State DOT regulations that must be met.

There is only one company that sells bulk transfer tanks for Gasoline, and that is TransferFlow as they are the only ones with the proper certifications to meet all the regulations.

Diesel is limited to 119 gallons before meeting restrictions, so the 50 gallon tanks, as long as they have the flammable label on them, are fine to load up and fill.

According to the regs you are only allowed to transport 8 gallons of gasoline, but there are conflicting regs from states. in NY you are allowed to carry up to 4 five gallon containers of gas. Pretty sure that is the norm in all states too.

Then there are OSHA requirements too.

There are also USDA requirements, https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...2_043004.pdf&usg=AOvVaw3luoqN_L4oRbNIHajQKfW7

There is also a federal law that requires portable gas cans to have flashback safety devices installed.

I have one of those 30 gallon on wheels tanks, but it is no UL approved as far as I can tell, nor are the ones like it sold on Amazon and elsewhere. According to what I have read so far, it is not legal for me to strap it to my trailer and take to the gas station to fill it.
 

ACDII

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Equipment
B2410, L352 Loader, Woods BH70-X backhoe
Oct 21, 2021
603
369
63
Illinois
I found a doc from 2009 that breaks it down nicely.


None of the tanks sold by ranch stores, you know, like tractor supply, Farm and Fleet, etc. are approved for carrying gasoline apparently. Nor at the ones like what I have, so I will probably just fill the 5 gallon cans and refill the tank at home with those. The Diesel tank though can be transported to the truck stop to be refilled.
 

RCW

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BX2360, FEL, MMM, BX2750D snowblower. 1953 Minneapolis Moline ZAU
Apr 28, 2013
6,693
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Chenango County, NY
Getting back to lifting 5 gallon cans, I did find some of the battery operated pumps listed only a few products, some included diesel, others not so much.

For diesel purposes, I wouldn’t worry too much. Others may.

For gasoline, I’d be much more aware. Just remember the old-style metal-cased drills where you could see the sparks from the brushes…..
 

ACDII

Well-known member

Equipment
B2410, L352 Loader, Woods BH70-X backhoe
Oct 21, 2021
603
369
63
Illinois
Yeah, sorry about the long winded reply, Reason I asked if it was rated for gas was because of the above that I posted, not for anything else.
 

pokey1416

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Grand L4060HSTC, BH92 Backhoe, HLA Snow Pusher, Dirt Dog Tiller, EA DiscHarrow,
Jun 24, 2020
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SW Michigan
I like this system with rotary pump that will pump 8 GPM. Only problem is lifting 10 gallons of diesel into SUV is a chore. Flo-Fast is the brand.

BA7550FF-2A6C-453B-B204-B5D477D375A6.jpeg
 
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ACDII

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B2410, L352 Loader, Woods BH70-X backhoe
Oct 21, 2021
603
369
63
Illinois
Thats a good setup. Build a small platform for it from 2x4 that you can lift with the bucket, save the back.
 
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FTG-05

Active member

Equipment
L4330 w/FEL
Jul 21, 2013
180
38
28
TN
Well, deep dive and one will see what the difference is. Diesel is combustible. Throw a match in it and the match will go out. Gasoline is a Flammable, toss a match at it and it explodes.

A tank rated for combustibles have simple vent systems since Diesel doesn't evaporate like Gasoline does, especially in hot weather. The tank rated Combustible only will vent the fumes creating an explosion hazard, and therefore are illegal to store gasoline in. It must be UL listed in order to carry class 3 fuels.

Thats the simple part. The complex part is now in transporting such fuels. There are rules from the FMCSA that restrict how much fuel of a certain type can be transported without requiring hazmat endorsements and placards, as well as the type of containers used to transport the fuels.

Then there are Federal DOT and State DOT regulations that must be met.

There is only one company that sells bulk transfer tanks for Gasoline, and that is TransferFlow as they are the only ones with the proper certifications to meet all the regulations.

Diesel is limited to 119 gallons before meeting restrictions, so the 50 gallon tanks, as long as they have the flammable label on them, are fine to load up and fill.

According to the regs you are only allowed to transport 8 gallons of gasoline, but there are conflicting regs from states. in NY you are allowed to carry up to 4 five gallon containers of gas. Pretty sure that is the norm in all states too.

Then there are OSHA requirements too.

There are also USDA requirements, https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjgjfPPiKH4AhUZX80KHXSrByQQFnoECAUQAQ&url=https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/nrcs144p2_043004.pdf&usg=AOvVaw3luoqN_L4oRbNIHajQKfW7

There is also a federal law that requires portable gas cans to have flashback safety devices installed.

I have one of those 30 gallon on wheels tanks, but it is no UL approved as far as I can tell, nor are the ones like it sold on Amazon and elsewhere. According to what I have read so far, it is not legal for me to strap it to my trailer and take to the gas station to fill it.
You went down the same regulatory/bureaucratic/horsepuckey hole that I went down over 2-3 years ago.

I was referring to the physical differences between two steel fuel tanks: one rated for Combustible, one Not.

It basically comes down to a fee the manufacturer is willing to pay to get it "certified" and one that is not. Physically, there is none.

Doubt it, go look at any two at any farm store and find the difference. That's what I did.
 

ACDII

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Equipment
B2410, L352 Loader, Woods BH70-X backhoe
Oct 21, 2021
603
369
63
Illinois
You went down the same regulatory/bureaucratic/horsepuckey hole that I went down over 2-3 years ago.

I was referring to the physical differences between two steel fuel tanks: one rated for Combustible, one Not.

It basically comes down to a fee the manufacturer is willing to pay to get it "certified" and one that is not. Physically, there is none.

Doubt it, go look at any two at any farm store and find the difference. That's what I did.

Actually the differences are not something you can actually see as they are internal to the tank. The only tanks sold in the US that are legal for transporting more than 8 gallons are Transfer Flow tanks. They have the proper venting and roll over valves required. Everything else is pretty much a use at your own risk tank. None of tanks at the stores I went to have a flammable tank in stock, combustible only.

Not knocking, so please don't take what I posted the wrong way, I was just curious about the tank. I have a 30 gallon tank that according to the regs is illegal to transport with. I still do though.
 

FTG-05

Active member

Equipment
L4330 w/FEL
Jul 21, 2013
180
38
28
TN
Actually the differences are not something you can actually see as they are internal to the tank. The only tanks sold in the US that are legal for transporting more than 8 gallons are Transfer Flow tanks. They have the proper venting and roll over valves required. Everything else is pretty much a use at your own risk tank. None of tanks at the stores I went to have a flammable tank in stock, combustible only.

Not knocking, so please don't take what I posted the wrong way, I was just curious about the tank. I have a 30 gallon tank that according to the regs is illegal to transport with. I still do though.
No offense, but it sounds like you bought into the TF kool-aid. I've talked to those guys before, years ago. if they told me the sun rose in the east, I'd be up tomorrow at dawn with a compass. In short, they are full of horse puckey.

Simple 5 second search gives lie to their lies: https://rdsaluminum.com/auto-transfer.html
 

ACDII

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Equipment
B2410, L352 Loader, Woods BH70-X backhoe
Oct 21, 2021
603
369
63
Illinois
I just point out what can be found in the interwebs. RDS does not show up in searches. So the tank you are using has the DOT approved rollover venting?

Thats all I am asking because it looks exactly like the tank I have which is not DOT approved to transfer gasoline.
 

Gene Blister

Member

Equipment
2019 Kubota B2601, FAL LA435, Snow Blower BX2822A, Land Pride rear blade RB1572
Aug 4, 2019
76
19
8
Cocolalla, Idaho
I was able to lay hands on three 55-gallon steel bung drums used for food grade contents. After securing them upside down on the FEL, I blasted them out with the power washer and let them drain completely.

With appropriate color paint and some stickers stating the contents, they were each ready for their own Fill Rite FR112 rotary pump (10 turns to the gallon) and Goldenrod water/particle filters. A pipe union at the bung lets me fill the barrels by unscrewing and removing the pump, plumbing and filters as one unit.

I placed them on plastic 30”x30” pallets from Northern Tool, and added a 3/4” plywood lip to prevent them sliding on the plastic. An over-center plywood cam holds them steady in the ring. Use the forks to load them in and out of the pickup bed.

The copper anti-static rod can be seen next to its gasoline storage barrel. It was pounded into the earth and connected with a grounding cable. Pretty cool!
 

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ACDII

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B2410, L352 Loader, Woods BH70-X backhoe
Oct 21, 2021
603
369
63
Illinois
Man, I tell you what. That 30 gallon rolling tank I was given. I think I figured out what the pump was supposed to be, a rotary crank like that pictured above with a 3/4 NPT inlet to screw it to the pipe. then it has a 2" filler neck, and a tank level indicator. It is NOT DOT approved to be transported in either a pickup bed or a trailer, which means that I still have to get 5 gallon cans filled at the station and lift the cans up to fill it with.

I think that rotary pump works both ways, so I could actually refill the tank using the pump backwards, but have not found the actual pump used on that tank, all the ones I find are 2" drum bung fittings.

The search continues. I wonder if the 12v pump I did find with 3/4" in and out would be able to be screwed on the fitting on the tank instead. I still have the issue of refilling the tank.
 
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xrocketengineer

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BX1880, FEL, Grapple, 36 in. Forks, 48in. MMM, Quick Spade, Ripper
Nov 14, 2020
460
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Merritt Island, Florida
Well, still beating this dead horse with a different stick, I bought a metal crank pump from Amazon for about $24 that had mixed reviews. It has some manufacturing issues like the threads on the pipes are rough and it did seem to be dirty from the manufacturing process. So, to fix those issues, I bought a 1/2 in. inline filter and some Gasoila brand sealing yellow tape for the threads. I also added 2ft. of 1/2in. ID hose and clamps to make it easier to use. To my surprise, it did not leak anywhere and the flow rate was about the same as with the battery operated pumps (when they work) with a moderate amount of cranking. The only potential issue is with the suction pipe being on the short side, so on a 5 gallon, it will reach the bottom almost vertically so that the crank clears the side of the can. Probably, a short piece of hose might alleviate that issue.

IMG_20220727_131018.jpg
 

ahddib

New member

Equipment
L2501, 5' bushhog, FEL w/ bucket and Grapple, and post hole digger.
Jun 7, 2022
2
0
1
Alabama
Well, still beating this dead horse with a different stick, I bought a metal crank pump from Amazon for about $24 that had mixed reviews. It has some manufacturing issues like the threads on the pipes are rough and it did seem to be dirty from the manufacturing process. So, to fix those issues, I bought a 1/2 in. inline filter and some Gasoila brand sealing yellow tape for the threads. I also added 2ft. of 1/2in. ID hose and clamps to make it easier to use. To my surprise, it did not leak anywhere and the flow rate was about the same as with the battery operated pumps (when they work) with a moderate amount of cranking. The only potential issue is with the suction pipe being on the short side, so on a 5 gallon, it will reach the bottom almost vertically so that the crank clears the side of the can. Probably, a short piece of hose might alleviate that issue.

View attachment 84341

That's beautiful. I wonder if you could easily modify the crank to accept a drill attachment to spin it with a cordless drill. I have shoulder problems so even spinning that for a minute would end up a painful experience.
 

ctfjr

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L3800HST
Dec 7, 2009
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central ct
As long as we are still beating this poor bastard. . .
In another thread I showed what I did with a 55gal drum. It was used for some type of food transport but had a big sealed plastic bag inside holding the material so the drum was spotless. $30 with lid and clamp.
I found an inexpensive 12v diesel pump kit on Amazon. Add in a fill cap, vent cap and a rolling drum base (if you want) and you are done. I'm pretty sure I have <$200 in it.

Original post
 
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MountainMeadows

Member

Equipment
L2501, JD 655, Ford 841
Jun 6, 2022
35
54
18
Poconos, PA
I was able to lay hands on three 55-gallon steel bung drums used for food grade contents. After securing them upside down on the FEL, I blasted them out with the power washer and let them drain completely.

With appropriate color paint and some stickers stating the contents, they were each ready for their own Fill Rite FR112 rotary pump (10 turns to the gallon) and Goldenrod water/particle filters. A pipe union at the bung lets me fill the barrels by unscrewing and removing the pump, plumbing and filters as one unit.

I placed them on plastic 30”x30” pallets from Northern Tool, and added a 3/4” plywood lip to prevent them sliding on the plastic. An over-center plywood cam holds them steady in the ring. Use the forks to load them in and out of the pickup bed.

The copper anti-static rod can be seen next to its gasoline storage barrel. It was pounded into the earth and connected with a grounding cable. Pretty cool!
That's a nice setup!
What brand fuel gauge is that? Where did you source it?
 

dan_m

Active member

Equipment
BX2380
Jul 9, 2020
133
48
28
Georgia
For those of you like me who have a 5 gallon can with flame shield from midwest can and want to use some type of transfer pump, here's a good video on removing it. The flame shield prevents you from reaching the bottom of the can.


I actually used the smallest screw driver I have and a set of locking needle nose pliers and regular needle nose pliers. I used the screw driver to allow me to pray the flame shield away from the can to get locking needle nose pliers on it (to prevent it from falling into the can) then used regular needle nose pliers to pull the flame shield out of the can.

Dan