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Henro

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I'm replying late again because I'm not checking the boards everyday but wanted to respond to this, because this is a little deceiving. I do not disagree that getting vaccinated offers better protection against covid than not being vaccinated, so we agree on that. However, the use of these numbers to determine a .006% chance of severe illness is a little misleading. To really know your risk for severe illness from covid you would have to look at how many breakthrough cases have occurred versus how many progressed to severe illness.

To understand how much the vaccine helps you would then need to look at all unvaccinated people who got covid, and then how many of those progressed to severe illness. The numbers should definitely look better for the vaccinated group, but you likely wont see some drastic over the top comparison. The reason for this is because the vast majority of people who get covid still have just mild to moderate symptoms that do not progress to a severe level. In fact, as the CDC often mentions, their numbers are undercounts because there are a lot of mild or asymptomatic covid cases out there that never get reported because people simply do not get tested, so you end up losing a lot of your very mild cases in the data. The severe cases - the ones that end up in the hospital are almost always counted and reported by contrast. This can cause the data to skew, making morbidity rates look higher than they may actually be for example.

It is not my goal to try and say covid is a nothing burger. However, I do feel it is very easy to get overwhelmed by all the covid overload from the media, the constant numbers, the talk of hospitals overflowing, and to start getting the impression that if you get covid you are in big trouble. It is hard to remain realistic in an environment of fear, and with a media that sensationalizes everything. The fact does still remain however that the mortality rate from covid infection, even among unvaccinated folks, is extremely low. The overall mortality rate due to covid in the USA from the numbers we have is 1.6%. Its important to remember though that the 1.6% is inflated because it includes only reported/known cases of infections. The actual mortality rate will be lower than 1.6% if you could magically capture all the infections where people simply never went to get tested, but that is impossible.

All that said, as my previous post stated, all outcomes are probabilities. If you are an older person, certainly over age 60, getting the vaccine would be highly recommended. If you also had diabetes or are obese, you are at even further risk serious illness. If you choose not to take the vaccine, then you of course are taking an increased risk of being more severely affected by covid. However, be clear that the increases we are talking about arent as you may be lead to think. The vast majority of BOTH camps are not dieing from covid.
Hard to dispute what you stated Tornado, and I certainly do not.

Frankly, sometimes I wonder what the big deal is. Granted this virus kills a lot more than something like the flu, which we ignore for the most part.

It could be argued that even more would be dead without vaccines.

I personally do believe in taking the vaccine, just like I believe in getting a flu shot. And being older, and looking at the statistics, it seems like a good path for the wife and I.

I think age is certainly a consideration in one‘s decision.

In the end, we “makes our decisions and we takes our chances”.

I hope all here make the right decision(whatever that may be for them) and stay healthy.
 
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Jchonline

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Hard to dispute what you stated Tornado, and I certainly do not.

Frankly, sometimes I wonder what the big deal is. Granted this virus kills a lot more than something like the flu, which we ignore for the most part.

It could be argued that even more would be dead without vaccines.

I personally do believe in taking the vaccine, just like I believe in getting a flu shot. And being older, and looking at the statistics, it seems like a good path for the wife and I.

I think age is certainly a consideration in one‘s decision.

In the end, we “makes our decisions and we takes our chances”.

I hope all here make the right decision(whatever that may be for them) and stay healthy.
Henro the big deal is simply the hospital system. In the US, overall ICU and acute care bed utilization is at an all time high. It has never been this high with anything in the past 100 years. We don't have this many people sick every year with the flu, or anything else. I am only concerned about that utilization, because if it gets bad enough (as it actually is in some states/hospitals right now) non-covid people that might have survived with proper care can't get that care.

Other than that, I really don't care about any of it. The risk someone younger and healthy of dying from delta is about the same as the risk of getting in a fatal car accident. We all assume risks everyday. Unfortunately if 1% of the population all got in a near fatal crash at the same time and went to the hospital for treatment...we would have a problem. Just not enough capacity.

Lets look at a few examples. Here is Texas (thank goodness just starting to trend down).


Here is Alabama (they are over capacity...no more ICU beds for anyone if this data is correct). If fact, they ran out mid August.


Another curious one: NY. For as populated as they are, they really didn't get a new hospitalization surge (at least not yet). I don't believe they did shutdowns again did they? I wonder if that has something to do with more natural immunity from so many people getting sick last year?

 

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It's called "Information Flooding", you hear something many times over and soon it "has to be true".

https://www.thedesertreview.com/opi...al&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=user-share

Here's an excerpt about the crowed Oklahoma hospital.


At least one publication made the leap from exaggeration to fabrication. Rolling Stone Magazine published an interview with an Oklahoma osteopathic physician, Dr. Jason McElyea, who claimed that Northeastern Hospital System’s emergency departments were overrun with so many Ivermectin overdoses that gunshot victims were having difficulty getting treatment. Dr. McElyea stated,

“The ERs are so backed up that gunshots victims were having a hard time getting to facilities where they can get definitive care and be treated.”

Multiple networks repeated the story, and it went viral.

https://kfor.com/news/local/patient...cking-up-rural-oklahoma-hospitals-ambulances/

But the report turned out to be false.

Rolling Stone was forced to publish a retraction of sorts, a correction to their report, wherein they stated the truth of the matter was the opposite. Northeastern Hospital System Sequoyah informed them that Dr. Jason McElyea, although affiliated with them, had not worked in the Sallisaw location in the last two months.

Furthermore, in a statement issued September 5, 2021, Northeastern Hospital System Sequoyah reported that no patients had been treated for Ivermectin overdose. Indeed no patients were treated for any complications of taking Ivermectin - and no gunshot wound patients or otherwise had been turned away from seeking emergency care.

It was all untrue. We were all lied to.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/rolli...e-after-viral-hospital-ivermectin-story-false
 
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Henro

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D2cat,

That ONE article you referenced may have been in error, but there seems to be a great number of different articles, naming different hospitals and health systems, that do report them being stressed, both with physical facilities running out of space and staff exhaustion.

Do not think it is logical to use one erroneous article to disprove a number of other reports which are independent of that one article.
 

motionclone

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D2cat,

That ONE article you referenced may have been in error, but there seems to be a great number of different articles, naming different hospitals and health systems, that do report them being stressed, both with physical facilities running out of space and staff exhaustion.

Do not think it is logical to use one erroneous article to disprove a number of other reports which are independent of that one article.
Its not logical to believe an information system that has time and time again failed at reporting ACTUAL facts and has been successful at reporting propaganda, half truths and lies.

Have you walked into a hospital to verify this info or that info? You havent because you rely on others to supply you with info. And thats exactly what they have counted on.
 
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jimh406

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Do not think it is logical to use one erroneous article to disprove a number of other reports which are independent of that one article.
As noted, if they are doing exactly the same storyline with almost the same wording, it’s clear it is one article published in multiple sources. Also, it’s been proven over and over that those same “outlets” have no issues with running with false information that they agree with.

Logic or not, you should consider that the “one” article could be enough reason to investigate whether the many “erroneous” articles are questioned as not being true.

In this particular case, there are many people who have reported that not all emergency rooms or hospitals are slammed. Since the majority of the “erroneous” outlets aren’t willing to prove that their stories are wrong, they simply don’t cover those reports.

Btw, I used erroneous to get you think about you calling an article “erroneous” just because you disagree with it. I hope you enjoyed that. :D

It is clear that many of the “news” outlets aren’t “news” at all. They are towing the party line with identical or nearly identical articles and reports. That should cause a person to pause, and then think if they’ve been so wrong about so many things, then maybe they are wrong about Covid information as well.
 

Tornado

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It's called "Information Flooding", you hear something many times over and soon it "has to be true".

https://www.thedesertreview.com/opi...al&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=user-share

Here's an excerpt about the crowed Oklahoma hospital.


At least one publication made the leap from exaggeration to fabrication. Rolling Stone Magazine published an interview with an Oklahoma osteopathic physician, Dr. Jason McElyea, who claimed that Northeastern Hospital System’s emergency departments were overrun with so many Ivermectin overdoses that gunshot victims were having difficulty getting treatment. Dr. McElyea stated,

“The ERs are so backed up that gunshots victims were having a hard time getting to facilities where they can get definitive care and be treated.”

Multiple networks repeated the story, and it went viral.

https://kfor.com/news/local/patient...cking-up-rural-oklahoma-hospitals-ambulances/

But the report turned out to be false.

Rolling Stone was forced to publish a retraction of sorts, a correction to their report, wherein they stated the truth of the matter was the opposite. Northeastern Hospital System Sequoyah informed them that Dr. Jason McElyea, although affiliated with them, had not worked in the Sallisaw location in the last two months.

Furthermore, in a statement issued September 5, 2021, Northeastern Hospital System Sequoyah reported that no patients had been treated for Ivermectin overdose. Indeed no patients were treated for any complications of taking Ivermectin - and no gunshot wound patients or otherwise had been turned away from seeking emergency care.

It was all untrue. We were all lied to.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/rolli...e-after-viral-hospital-ivermectin-story-false

D2 You make a good point here, and thanks for sharing this story. This highlights part of what I meant in my previous post by a media that just goes looking for a story to sensationalize. The media is 100% hyping covid. They have been since it started. However, you do also have some hospitals that are definitely hitting capacity due to covid. As I said before, this is where its so hard to remain realistic and grounded in what the real situation is. If you buy into the media hype you would be lead to believe that the sky is falling, that hospitals all over the country are being over run, and that people are dieing just trying to get in. That would be completely false. However, if you go too far the other way, and just dismiss it all because you are fed up with it, as many of us are, then you also miss the truth. The reality is somewhere in the middle. Some hospitals are overrun, and then I know of some who have empty halls.

Its also important to note that it doesn't take a lot really to overrun a hospitals emergency and ICU capacity. Part of the problem with covid is that the folks who do end up in the hospital end up there often times for many days or even weeks. If you have had any dealings with a hospital in the previous years you may have noticed they really like to try and discharge as soon as possible. They are not able to discharge these covid patients. Also, what many may not know, but I am aware of because of my wife being a director of nursing at a facility, is that many nursing homes and other facilities end up sending all of their covid positives out of their facilities and to the hospital or to other facilities that have covid units set up. This ends up causing certain facilities to just get over run, and then leads to stories like we see. If this were the flu for example, none of these facilities would be sending people out of their facilities, but because of covid restrictions, you can not keep covid positives in a nursing home for example without having a covid unit or something in place to isolate. Essentially this contributes to the problem of certain facilities being crowded. Unless you know the full behind the scenes on this though you would be lead to believe that your local hospital is being flooded by people walking in about to die of covid. If this were the flu for example, the care load would be much more spread out; you wouldn't have flu positives being immediately transferred out of nursing homes for example to some other facility. They would stay put and be treated there, and you would never know or hear about it.

All that said, it is true that for those nurses in these hospitals that are being flooded, it is a nightmare. My wife works with and has to coordinate with local area hospitals, and she has friends inside some of these covid units here in Florida. The stories we hear from these nurses is indeed tragic, and it is day after day after day. One of our friends who is a very good nurse and in one of these hospitals told us the other evening that she is looking to get out and work elsewhere, that she can not continue to watch 30 and 40 year olds die day after day. She says she has went home and cried until she cant cry anymore. She is exhausted from the work load, and emotionally exhausted from the toll it is taking. This is true for MANY of these nurses in the middle of this. Hospitals are throwing big bonuses and incentives at nurses just to try and prevent them from walking off the job, and that often still isnt enough. If all I knew was what we hear form those particular nurses, you would be gripped in fear and think my god, we are doomed. However here yet again, I try my best to find perspective. The reality is that these nurses are so close to the problem, and at such a volume of time (50, 60, 70 hours a week) that covid is consuming their lives. Also the issue I highlighted above, that these hospitals are essentially the sponges for the local area, often absorbing a lot of the worst covid cases from all in the area. The nurse I mention here who spoke about the dieing 30 and 40 year olds told us about various cases, and it was clear it affected her watching these younger people die. You can imagine how this could make you feel if you were in her shoes. Wow covid is just killing our young people. The reality though is that for every one of those killed, there have been thousands that age who got it and had mild illness. When you are in the middle of the worst hell of it though, as these nurses are, it is very easy to be consumed by the horror of the few dieing, and if not careful can warp your perspective into feeling like that young people are just dropping like flies.
 

Henro

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Btw, I used erroneous to get you think about you calling an article “erroneous” just because you disagree with it. I hope you enjoyed that. :D
Actually I did not call the article erroneous, but rather accepted D2cat's assessment of it. I never said I disagreed with it being erroneous. It certainly seems that information stated in that article was wrong. But it is just one article...

No doubt one has to sort through what is published in the news. This goes for any source. Common sense these days more than ever. But one also needs to evaluate the likelihood a source may actually be reliable. For example, is what "Joe down the road" says likely to be more reliable than something published by the American Medical Association?

Some seem to think so.
(not referring to anyone in particular).
 

Jchonline

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D2 You make a good point here, and thanks for sharing this story. This highlights part of what I meant in my previous post by a media that just goes looking for a story to sensationalize. The media is 100% hyping covid. They have been since it started. However, you do also have some hospitals that are definitely hitting capacity due to covid. As I said before, this is where its so hard to remain realistic and grounded in what the real situation is. If you buy into the media hype you would be lead to believe that the sky is falling, that hospitals all over the country are being over run, and that people are dieing just trying to get in. That would be completely false. However, if you go too far the other way, and just dismiss it all because you are fed up with it, as many of us are, then you also miss the truth. The reality is somewhere in the middle. Some hospitals are overrun, and then I know of some who have empty halls.

Its also important to note that it doesn't take a lot really to overrun a hospitals emergency and ICU capacity. Part of the problem with covid is that the folks who do end up in the hospital end up there often times for many days or even weeks. If you have had any dealings with a hospital in the previous years you may have noticed they really like to try and discharge as soon as possible. They are not able to discharge these covid patients. Also, what many may not know, but I am aware of because of my wife being a director of nursing at a facility, is that many nursing homes and other facilities end up sending all of their covid positives out of their facilities and to the hospital or to other facilities that have covid units set up. This ends up causing certain facilities to just get over run, and then leads to stories like we see. If this were the flu for example, none of these facilities would be sending people out of their facilities, but because of covid restrictions, you can not keep covid positives in a nursing home for example without having a covid unit or something in place to isolate. Essentially this contributes to the problem of certain facilities being crowded. Unless you know the full behind the scenes on this though you would be lead to believe that your local hospital is being flooded by people walking in about to die of covid. If this were the flu for example, the care load would be much more spread out; you wouldn't have flu positives being immediately transferred out of nursing homes for example to some other facility. They would stay put and be treated there, and you would never know or hear about it.

All that said, it is true that for those nurses in these hospitals that are being flooded, it is a nightmare. My wife works with and has to coordinate with local area hospitals, and she has friends inside some of these covid units here in Florida. The stories we hear from these nurses is indeed tragic, and it is day after day after day. One of our friends who is a very good nurse and in one of these hospitals told us the other evening that she is looking to get out and work elsewhere, that she can not continue to watch 30 and 40 year olds die day after day. She says she has went home and cried until she cant cry anymore. She is exhausted from the work load, and emotionally exhausted from the toll it is taking. This is true for MANY of these nurses in the middle of this. Hospitals are throwing big bonuses and incentives at nurses just to try and prevent them from walking off the job, and that often still isnt enough. If all I knew was what we hear form those particular nurses, you would be gripped in fear and think my god, we are doomed. However here yet again, I try my best to find perspective. The reality is that these nurses are so close to the problem, and at such a volume of time (50, 60, 70 hours a week) that covid is consuming their lives. Also the issue I highlighted above, that these hospitals are essentially the sponges for the local area, often absorbing a lot of the worst covid cases from all in the area. The nurse I mention here who spoke about the dieing 30 and 40 year olds told us about various cases, and it was clear it affected her watching these younger people die. You can imagine how this could make you feel if you were in her shoes. Wow covid is just killing our young people. The reality though is that for every one of those killed, there have been thousands that age who got it and had mild illness. When you are in the middle of the worst hell of it though, as these nurses are, it is very easy to be consumed by the horror of the few dieing, and if not careful can warp your perspective into feeling like that young people are just dropping like flies.

The sad part of it is if these folks were vaccinated, it is almost certain they would live. The strain on the hospital systems and staff has always been my threshold and reasoning behind getting vaccinated. I really don't care what politicians say.

It does take a HUGE amount of time to care for a COVID hospitalized patient. If they are bad, they can teeter on death multiple times a day. O2 levels drop, sometimes even when a nurse tries to roll the patient to prevent bed sores (this is routine hospital care) and a code team has to be called in. All of those doctors/nurses/pharmacists are now focused on 1 person instead of the others they were caring for. It just snowballs.
 

motionclone

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It does take a HUGE amount of time to care for a COVID hospitalized patient. If they are bad, they can teeter on death multiple times a day. O2 levels drop, sometimes even when a nurse tries to roll the patient to prevent bed sores (this is routine hospital care) and a code team has to be called in. All of those doctors/nurses/pharmacists are now focused on 1 person instead of the others they were caring for. It just snowballs.
And now there are less nurses, doctors and other support folks in health care and this new shortage of staff is DIRECTLY related to mandates to get vaccinated.
 

Henro

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The sad part of it is if these folks were vaccinated, it is almost certain they would live. The strain on the hospital systems and staff has always been my threshold and reasoning behind getting vaccinated. I really don't care what politicians say.

It does take a HUGE amount of time to care for a COVID hospitalized patient. If they are bad, they can teeter on death multiple times a day. O2 levels drop, sometimes even when a nurse tries to roll the patient to prevent bed sores (this is routine hospital care) and a code team has to be called in. All of those doctors/nurses/pharmacists are now focused on 1 person instead of the others they were caring for. It just snowballs.
This is totally off the wall thinking, but I can't help but think that even with the discomfort we are suffering as a society, we still are at least moving in the right direction.

One gets some immunity by either getting vaccinated or catching the virus. Vaccination may on average be the easier way, but natural immunity after infection could end up being better, if you survive the infection. Most do.

It appears that currently most of the infections and hospitalizations are occurring in the unvaccinated. 3 or 4 weeks after infection, they likely will develop some resistance to reinfection. So eventually, it seems that between vaccinations, natural immunity developing from infection, or a combination of both, we will end up in a better place than we are now, in spite of ourselves...

Edit: Of course, there is the argument that this will take more time, which gives more chance for serious variants to evolve, but that really is more of a global ( world) issue than a local one.
 
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jimh406

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In spite of whether you believe all hospitals are being hammered or not, we could be doing something to keep people out of the hospitals. Similar to pneumonia, if you take the wrong steps, you progressively get worse. On the other hand, take the proper steps and avoid dying.

So again, why aren’t we pushing how to care for yourself instead of only go get vaccinated. I know … it doesn’t fit the narrative which is actually pretty disgusting.

There are also plenty of studies that are starting to show that natural immunity is better than the vaccine including variants, and yet most(maybe all) of the vaccine mandates have no allowance. Again, this simply isn’t science based. Maybe the people making the decisions are lust light in science knowledge or maybe they just don’t care.

I wonder how many more people will sue. Btw, the professor got the exemption. https://www.hrdive.com/news/george-...ine-exemption-following-profs-lawsuit/605382/
 
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Jchonline

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In spite of whether you believe all hospitals are being hammered or not, we could be doing something to keep people out of the hospitals. Similar to pneumonia, if you take the wrong steps, you progressively get worse. On the other hand, take the proper steps and avoid dying.

So again, why aren’t we pushing how to care for yourself instead of only go get vaccinated. I know … it doesn’t fit the narrative which is actually pretty disgusting.

There are also plenty of studies that are starting to show that natural immunity is better than the vaccine including variants, and yet most(maybe all) of the vaccine mandates have no allowance. Again, this simply isn’t science based. Maybe the people making the decisions are lust light in science knowledge or maybe they just don’t care.

I wonder how many more people will sue. Btw, the professor got the exemption. https://www.hrdive.com/news/george-...ine-exemption-following-profs-lawsuit/605382/

I have no doubt natural immunity will win over a vaccine, it always has (if the person survives the initial infection). The real challenge is the current antibody TESTS that are available, and the types of immune cells they measure. The current tests were designed to help confirm active or very recent infection from COVID. They did not measure memory T cell levels that the vaccine manufacturers were required to to confirm longer term immunity. This means even though there are almost 90 antibody COVID tests on the market, there may not be any that look at the proper markers for longer term immunity. I haven't looked at them all, so I am not certain here. That said, if the professor tested + for antibodies months after he was infected that means he still has the short term antibodies (probably being continually exposed to the virus at work, etc) and he would not need a vaccine.

Personally if you give me the choice between 5 antibody test blood draws or 2 vaccine shots...I would easily pick the vaccine. However his choice.

I do wish there were better long term immunity tests available to the public that the CDC would accept as positive immunity.

The best possible chance we have to get this to "endemic" status as soon as possible and not overwhelm the healthcare system is to get everyone eligible vaccinated, then not worry about people getting infected with it (unless you are very high risk).

Also we should mention there are very effective therapeutic options available that will help those with risk of severe illness beat the disease naturally. Regeneron is an immunotherapy that has some very promising results, and is available for FREE if you meet the criteria in your state for its use.

This of course begs the question....if you would accept this immunotherapy, why not just get the vaccine in the first place. There has been far, far more scrutiny placed on the vaccine which means we have a more comprehensive safety record with it.

I have also feared the opposite type lawsuits....someone with COVID gets others sick, it is proven they knowingly had it and exposed others, and someone dies. I don't agree with it (as there are countless infectious, communicable diseases that could kill someone), but with all the madness I am a bit surprised it hasn't happened....or maybe it has. I don't really read non medical literature so I don't pay attention to that stuff. Anyone else see something like this?
 
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jimh406

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The best possible chance we have to get this to "endemic" status as soon as possible and not overwhelm the healthcare system is to get everyone eligible vaccinated, then not worry about people getting infected with it (unless you are very high risk).

Also we should mention there are very effective therapeutic options available that will help those with risk of severe illness beat the disease naturally. Regeneron is an immunotherapy that has some very promising results, and is available for FREE if you meet the criteria in your state for its use.
Of course, we only needed 15 days to slow the spread. ;) In other words, not many people actually believe this is ever going to be over. There is plenty of information about what they are calling “breakthrough cases”. We really don’t know how many people have already been infected or reinfected because we don’t continously test the vaccinated or unvaccinated. To further complicate this, take a look at the symptoms compared to cold and flu. They all overlap. There is no real incentive to get a Covid test if you think you might have Covid other than potentially not infecting someone else. Unfortunately, the first few days are the time when you are most contagious. People don’t likely know how sick they are.

Although there are theraputic options, that’s not the only choice either. Simply taking the actions that you would take with the flu, work, too.

I remember one of the cases when a 20 something died. His parents said, he was so healthy and worked all of the time. Well guess what, every young person that I know who got pneumonia were working all of the time. In those circumstances, people take over the counter drugs and caffeine and keep going spreading the illness of course.

The main point is there are other options other than simply getting continuous vaccinations the next few years.
 

Tornado

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It does take a HUGE amount of time to care for a COVID hospitalized patient. If they are bad, they can teeter on death multiple times a day. O2 levels drop, sometimes even when a nurse tries to roll the patient to prevent bed sores (this is routine hospital care) and a code team has to be called in. All of those doctors/nurses/pharmacists are now focused on 1 person instead of the others they were caring for. It just snowballs.
Yea, when you have numerous patients intubated, on vents, and oxygen, you are dealing with a large body of high acuity patients. This puts a high demand on the nursing staff. Before my wife went more into long term/ rehab care she was a nurse in the cardiac ICU, where she often had high acuity patients. She was involved in a lot of codes, watched many people die. One thing about being a nurse on a unit like that is that, if you want to, you can gain a LOT of fast experience and knowledge. The knowledge my wife gained in ICU has helped her throughout her entire career, even in long term care as a DON now. It is high stress though. The entire medical profession, especially on nurses in particular is super high stress. What many of these nurses are required to do today, there honestly isnt enough hours in the day to complete it all and meet regulations. Its simply impossible. Thats another tangent for another day though. I just know that right now the seams are starting to show for the medical profession.
 

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So, what you're saying is that they are NOT forcing or coercing you to take the Hep B shot. They're giving you a CHOICE to sign a waiver that says you don't want to? That's actually a good thing, and as it should be. But, if you contract Hep B while working there, you cannot sue the fire department for exposing you to it, if you signed the waiver. But think about it just for a second, and who is the FD is actually protecting. You? NOPE! Them.
EXACTLY!

It's still my choice. The only question is what the FD's liability is. I weighed my options and made my choice. Just as I did with Tetanus. Just as I did with Covid.

What's the next round up going to be?
Apparently: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...-mandate-this-is-not-about-freedom/ar-AAOgZAb
 

random

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Nov 2, 2020
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D2cat,

That ONE article you referenced may have been in error, but there seems to be a great number of different articles, naming different hospitals and health systems, that do report them being stressed, both with physical facilities running out of space and staff exhaustion.

Do not think it is logical to use one erroneous article to disprove a number of other reports which are independent of that one article.
falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus.

Goes back to what I said about primary sources.
 

random

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For example, is what "Joe down the road" says likely to be more reliable than something published by the American Medical Association?
What about the Emerging Infectious Disease Journal vs. the AMA? Or the European CDC vs. the US CDC?
 

Steppenwolfe

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Today was the day for our bimonthly bug man to come and spray for critters; he's a very nice guy... church, mission work, trumper, etc. For a year been hearing from him what a con game this "covid" thing was. Well today he had a change of heart; seems two family members and his best friend have died of Covid since his last visit. Now he is vaccinated and preaching a new story...
 
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