inherited M6060 with DPF warning

[b1pig]

Good day, everyone....

Wife inherited some land and equipment from her parents recently. It is now my task to take care of all of it. The tractor is a M6060HD that my in-laws purchased used several years ago when their old Case/IH became.. uh... dangerous.

I've ran it numerous times over the years. Although I attempted to educate my father in law on the DPF procedure, he didn't do it properly apparently. There was also one point where we think he put a few gallons of kerosene into it mixed with diesel that was already in the tank. Dementia is a horrible thing that we are still dealing with even after they've passed on......
I'm about to take a stab at pulling the DPF and cleaning it out off the tractor. Over the last couple of weeks, I've had to use the tractor to repair some surfaces on the farm and found that the DPF warning has now turned to the engine warning and persistent beep.

Hoping that will resolve it and get a look at the DPF to make sure it's not damaged.

I did a search and went through several pages of posts, not finding what I was after. Anyone had any luck with this? Did the sensors read that the DPF was no longer restricted and go back to normal operation? ie: beeper shuts off and full power restored?

 

[Russell King]

I think you need to have a dealer do a forced regen but that might be after it goes down to limp mode.

Try to do a regen before you do anything else and I don’t think you should be taking it off to do anything with it.

 

[SDT]

Good day, everyone....

Wife inherited some land and equipment from her parents recently. It is now my task to take care of all of it. The tractor is a M6060HD that my in-laws purchased used several years ago when their old Case/IH became.. uh... dangerous.

I've ran it numerous times over the years. Although I attempted to educate my father in law on the DPF procedure, he didn't do it properly apparently. There was also one point where we think he put a few gallons of kerosene into it mixed with diesel that was already in the tank. Dementia is a horrible thing that we are still dealing with even after they've passed on......
I'm about to take a stab at pulling the DPF and cleaning it out off the tractor. Over the last couple of weeks, I've had to use the tractor to repair some surfaces on the farm and found that the DPF warning has now turned to the engine warning and persistent beep.

Hoping that will resolve it and get a look at the DPF to make sure it's not damaged.

I did a search and went through several pages of posts, not finding what I was after. Anyone had any luck with this? Did the sensors read that the DPF was no longer restricted and go back to normal operation? ie: beeper shuts off and full power restored?

Read all of the emissions material in the Operator's Manual. Then read it again.

Follow the instructions precisely to avoid costly, dealer only, repairs.

DO NOT continue to use the tractor without clearing the codes.

Probably already too late to avoid dealer repairs but study the materials anyway.

 

[Daren Todd]

Do not remove the particulate filter or alter it.

Before getting the dealer involved, you can Google the steps and try to do a parked regen on the unit first.

At least rule that out. That's the first step I do on my tier 4 rental equipment with dpf and def at the shop. If the unit won't complete a regen, then I'll drag it to the dealer. Taking it to them, it costs me an hour or so of labor to perform a service regen.

If I have to have them come to a jobsite, then it starts adding up since your paying the trip charge plus labor.

We a have a large Doosan yard forklift with dpf and def at the shop. I know the unit doesn't get run enough to complete a regen sequence on it's own.

As a preventative measure, I perform a parked regen on the unit when I top up the def fluid. Usually once every 3 months depending on it's use. Unit has a def level Guage, so I top up the def tank when it gets down to around 1/4 of a tank.

 

[cthomas]

Also DEF fluid does go bad, (or so I was trained by GM) so drain and refill the DEF tank if it is old(over a year) and then perform a parked regeneration on the tractor. I am not sure if your tractor uses DEF, also do not confuse the DEF for a DPF as these are very different things. DEF is diesel exhaust fluid and DPF is diesel particulate filter.

 

[b1pig]

This is a DPF tractor. It will not do the REGEN. I've tried.

Guess I'll have to find a service tech somewhere near me. Wife's family luckily has several farmers. We've been able to borrow a suitable trailer from them in the past. We should be able to do so again.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

This is a DPF tractor. It will not do the REGEN. I've tried.

Guess I'll have to find a service tech somewhere near me. Wife's family luckily has several farmers. We've been able to borrow a suitable trailer from them in the past. We should be able to do so again.

If it will not do a parked regen per the manuals instructions, it will need to be taken in.

I will reiterate it requires a Kubota Dealer and not a general service tech to fix it as it requires use of proprietary software to do a forced regen.

 

[Daren Todd]

This is a DPF tractor. It will not do the REGEN. I've tried.

Guess I'll have to find a service tech somewhere near me. Wife's family luckily has several farmers. We've been able to borrow a suitable trailer from them in the past. We should be able to do so again.

Once a dpf issue gets to a certain point it requires dealer software. Another thing to take into consideration about these units.

Just about anything emissions related will trip latched codes that can only be reset using dealer software.

If you inspect any quick connects, or plugs going to any sensors for water or corrosion. Make sure the key is off. And do not cycle the key to the on position until your positive the sensor or quick connect is hooked back up properly. Cycling the key with a sensor disconnected or loose connection at a plug can very well trip a latched code.

 

[fried1765]

I

Once a dpf issue gets to a certain point it requires dealer software. Another thing to take into consideration about these units.

Just about anything emissions related will trip latched codes that can only be reset using dealer software.

If you inspect any quick connects, or plugs going to any sensors for water or corrosion. Make sure the key is off. And do not cycle the key to the on position until your positive the sensor or quick connect is hooked back up properly. Cycling the key with a sensor disconnected or loose connection at a plug can very well trip a latched code.

I thought these DPF systems were considered to be trouble free....the new norm?

 

[Daren Todd]

I


I thought these DPF systems were considered to be trouble free....the new norm?

The new norm.... yes...... trouble free.....

That really depends. You do have sensors that fail occasionally as well water intrusion into the wiring which will cause issues as well.

Most systems with just the particulate filter, I have thousands of trouble free hours out of them. As long as customers don't inhibit a regen.

I can't speak for kubota, since I don't have anything kubota related that's tier 4 with either dpf, or def related.

I can speak to generally about what I've run into across the board.

Deere def systems scare the daylights out of me. I got six deere units at my shop that have dpf and def on them.

4 out of the 6 have been in and out of the dealers for warranty work. One for recalibration, one currently for def injection pump failure. The other 4 for failure to regen.

On the other 2, I'm not sure if customers were running them out of def fluid and letting them go to a point they need a service regen.

Either way, 4 out of 6 doesn't really give you the warm and fuzzies.

My 600hp Scania diesel.... that one had a latched code from a bad connection to the def injectors. Once the connection was fixed and a service regen performed, I haven't had any issues since.

That unit scares me though and as soon as I could farm it out, it went byebye. Company has a meeting every Friday just for that make to covet service related issues.

Deutz.... I've had almost no issues with. 1 def clarity sensor was bad. Once sensor was replaced I was able to perform a parked regen. I don't get service calls for tier 4 deutz engines

 

[SDT]

Also DEF fluid does go bad, (or so I was trained by GM) so drain and refill the DEF tank if it is old(over a year) and then perform a parked regeneration on the tractor. I am not sure if your tractor uses DEF, also do not confuse the DEF for a DPF as these are very different things. DEF is diesel exhaust fluid and DPF is diesel particulate filter.

DPF but no DEF on M6060.

 

[SDT]

I


I thought these DPF systems were considered to be trouble free....the new norm?

Most are if operators do not ignore warnings and continue to use the equipment.

M6060 has DPF but no DEF. Such systems are generally seamless if operators follow printed instructions. Machines requiring DEF have another level of issues that will cause problems if operators ignore instructions.

Warranty does not cover such abuse.

 

[RBsingl]

Companies would like DPF systems to be basically invisible to the customer but in reality they aren't. Fortunately my only Tier IV diesel is in my 2018 GMC HD pickup. I put in my 40 KW standby generator the year before Tier IV required a DPF for it, my Deere 955 compact was produced long before such requirements, and I purposely ordered a Kubota F2690 instead of the higher horse version to avoid DPF/DEF on it.

My truck has been fine but I keep an eye on regens and when it starts one I alter my plans if necessary to let it go through the full cycle at highway speed. It is designed so that a regen cycle can stop and be restarted multiple times to complete BUT this is less efficient and effective and if you don't allow it to operate in a way that allows a regen to complete within a reasonable period then it will require a stationary regen. And only a tiny percentage of my driving is stop and go city which is terrible for a DPF equipped over the road vehicle, stop and go city driving is what leads to a majority of problems.

A tractor under constant to moderate heavy load for long periods of time is perfect for a DPF system and under heavy use, a well designed system will be engaged in passive regen given the amount of heat produced which leads to a longer operating period between active regens. But a tractor that idles a lot, often operates unloaded, and has a lot of engine start/stop cycles is a strong candidate for DPF issues.

Bottom line is user behavior is a big determinant of how problematic the DPF system is likely to be. DEF systems are largely outside the control of the user BUT one area where you can get into trouble is when DEF sits for a long time in a hot environment without being used. So if your tractor has a large DEF reservoir but gets low hours of usage, you are better off maintaining DEF at a moderate level and adding often rather than risking DEF degradation in the machine. The DEF system is calibrated to engine load level and can vary the amount of DEF injected a small amount above or below design center value for a given engine operating point, if it hits the maximum allowed injection level upstream of the selective reduction catalyst and the downstream sniffer still shows excessive nox then limp mode is on the way.

I would love to not have a DPF system but even though the DEF system can cause problems it is somewhat of an efficiency improvement because it allows for engine calibration which creates higher nox levels which then get cleaned up with after-treatment. Prior to this, non-DEF engines had calibration to meet the higher pre-Tier IV nox limit which was largely met by controlling peak combustion pressure and temperature via fuel injection level/timing and use of copious amounts of egr.

DPF adds a significant exhaust restriction and uses significant fuel during an active regen to raise DPF temperature. My GMC pickup has a 9th injector that provides raw fuel to the DPF during regen events, roughly one per every 36 gallon tank of fuel and around a gallon of fuel gets wasted during regen. It is obvious during regen when instant mileage on the interstate drops from the 20-22 MPG range down to 9-11 during active regen.

Rodger

 

[fried1765]

Companies would like DPF systems to be basically invisible to the customer but in reality they aren't. Fortunately my only Tier IV diesel is in my 2018 GMC HD pickup. I put in my 40 KW standby generator the year before Tier IV required a DPF for it, my Deere 955 compact was produced long before such requirements, and I purposely ordered a Kubota F2690 instead of the higher horse version to avoid DPF/DEF on it.

My truck has been fine but I keep an eye on regens and when it starts one I alter my plans if necessary to let it go through the full cycle at highway speed. It is designed so that a regen cycle can stop and be restarted multiple times to complete BUT this is less efficient and effective and if you don't allow it to operate in a way that allows a regen to complete within a reasonable period then it will require a stationary regen. And only a tiny percentage of my driving is stop and go city which is terrible for a DPF equipped over the road vehicle, stop and go city driving is what leads to a majority of problems.

A tractor under constant to moderate heavy load for long periods of time is perfect for a DPF system and under heavy use, a well designed system will be engaged in passive regen given the amount of heat produced which leads to a longer operating period between active regens. But a tractor that idles a lot, often operates unloaded, and has a lot of engine start/stop cycles is a strong candidate for DPF issues.

Bottom line is user behavior is a big determinant of how problematic the DPF system is likely to be. DEF systems are largely outside the control of the user BUT one area where you can get into trouble is when DEF sits for a long time in a hot environment without being used. So if your tractor has a large DEF reservoir but gets low hours of usage, you are better off maintaining DEF at a moderate level and adding often rather than risking DEF degradation in the machine. The DEF system is calibrated to engine load level and can vary the amount of DEF injected a small amount above or below design center value for a given engine operating point, if it hits the maximum allowed injection level upstream of the selective reduction catalyst and the downstream sniffer still shows excessive nox then limp mode is on the way.

I would love to not have a DPF system but even though the DEF system can cause problems it is somewhat of an efficiency improvement because it allows for engine calibration which creates higher nox levels which then get cleaned up with after-treatment. Prior to this, non-DEF engines had calibration to meet the higher pre-Tier IV nox limit which was largely met by controlling peak combustion pressure and temperature via fuel injection level/timing and use of copious amounts of egr.

DPF adds a significant exhaust restriction and uses significant fuel during an active regen to raise DPF temperature. My GMC pickup has a 9th injector that provides raw fuel to the DPF during regen events, roughly one per every 36 gallon tank of fuel and around a gallon of fuel gets wasted during regen. It is obvious during regen when instant mileage on the interstate drops from the 20-22 MPG range down to 9-11 during active regen.

Rodger

I just knew I did not like those EPA tree-hugger gadgets, and am even more convinced as a result of your post.
Thank you for the in depth explanation.
I have no vehicle/equipment with either system, and at 82 do not expect to change that situation.

 

[RBsingl]

I just knew I did not like those EPA tree-hugger gadgets, and am even more convinced as a result of your post.
Thank you for the in depth explanation.
I have no vehicle/equipment with either system, and at 82 do not expect to change that situation.

You are very welcome and I hope that 20 years from now when I am 82, I will still be using my tractors! Thanks for being a role model

Rodger

 

[MapleLeafFarmer]

how many hours on the tractor?
how many hours on the DPF? (original or replacement/post cleaned)
are you in limp mode?

will help with good recommendations on whether a forced regen, clean, or replacement in order.

DEMENTIA sucks, not following Kubotas warning lights / beepers sucks as well as for sure tractors not as forgiving when a person ignores all the cues of flashing lights and beepers.

My guess is a tech. can force a regen to clean. Kubotas protective systems pretty top shelf so doubt big damage (fingers crossed for you ) avoided due to built in limp mode, etc...

 

[whitetiger]

My guess is a tech. can force a regen to clean.

As long as it is not to Stage 5 or the fuel has been contaminated.

 

[Daren Todd]

As long as it is not to Stage 5 or the fuel has been contaminated.

I'm assuming stage 5 is either replacing particulate filter or sending out to be baked????

 

[whitetiger]

I'm assuming stage 5 is either replacing particulate filter or sending out to be baked????

That would be correct!!

 

[b1pig]

how many hours on the tractor?
how many hours on the DPF? (original or replacement/post cleaned)
are you in limp mode?

will help with good recommendations on whether a forced regen, clean, or replacement in order.

DEMENTIA sucks, not following Kubotas warning lights / beepers sucks as well as for sure tractors not as forgiving when a person ignores all the cues of flashing lights and beepers.

My guess is a tech. can force a regen to clean. Kubotas protective systems pretty top shelf so doubt big damage (fingers crossed for you ) avoided due to built in limp mode, etc...

From memory, I think the tractor only has around 1600-1700 hours on it. Since they've owned it (4-6 years?) it has spent it's life under a pole barn when parked, rarely out in direct weather. No idea on it's life before their ownership. Based on the appearance of the tractor, that DPF will be original as will everything else on it.

The tractor is most definitely in limp mode. In 4-hi, the most the engine will run is 2200 rpm on level hardpack., and it takes its time getting there.

I've already spoke to a local shop who has the dealer tools to force the REGEN. Have to make arrangements to borrow a trailer first, then I will set up an appointment with them to get the work done.