I wonder about new Kubota tractors...

GeoHorn

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
M4700DT, LA1002FEL, Ferguson5-8B Compactor-Roller, 10KDumpTrailer, RTV-X900
May 18, 2018
5,720
3,036
113
Texas
An inventor named R. G. LeTourneau was an innovator championing "Diesel over Electric" beginning in the 1950's.
What LeTourneau designed was a wheel-hub of internal electromotive design that incorporated electro-braking. There was nothing new about diesel-electric systems....they were very common in WWI diesel-electric submarines and locomotives.
 

SidecarFlip

Banned

Equipment
M9000HDCC3, M9000HD, Kubota GS850 Sidekick
Oct 28, 2018
7,197
548
83
USA
Thanks for proving yourself wrong about electrics having potential. :D

JD thinks there is a market for them in as much as they now offer an electric ag tractor (though more of a 'utility' version with limited range and capability. I won't be buying one anytime soon. Asking price is around 150K.

Bleed Green, it's always expensive.....:D
 

SDT

Well-known member

Equipment
multiple and various
Apr 15, 2018
3,084
926
113
SE, IN
What LeTourneau designed was a wheel-hub of internal electromotive design that incorporated electro-braking. There was nothing new about diesel-electric systems....they were very common in WWI diesel-electric submarines and locomotives.
The DELCO Products division of GM built a diesel electric scraper (pan) in the 60s. It was successful but the handwriting was on the wall regarding reduced taxpayer money for highway construction and it was not commercialized.

SDT
 

SidecarFlip

Banned

Equipment
M9000HDCC3, M9000HD, Kubota GS850 Sidekick
Oct 28, 2018
7,197
548
83
USA
The DELCO Products division of GM built a diesel electric scraper (pan) in the 60s. It was successful but the handwriting was on the wall regarding reduced taxpayer money for highway construction and it was not commercialized.

SDT
I'm pretty sure they employed a 2 stroke Detroit diesel engine (I wasn't aware they did, interesting). The 2 stroke Detroit is an ideal engine for power generation. That are happiest running at rated RPM all day long. Why in road trucks they weren't the best choice as they don't like running at varied RPM. They made great generator engines.

The old saying applies... To drive a Detroit you slam your fingers in the door frame before you start it. My very first truck was 8V71 powered with a 4x4 twin stick. Only truck I ever owned that you had to downshift to go over a cigarette butt.....:D Most times the fuel pedal was flat on the floorboard.:D
 

SDT

Well-known member

Equipment
multiple and various
Apr 15, 2018
3,084
926
113
SE, IN
I'm pretty sure they employed a 2 stroke Detroit diesel engine (I wasn't aware they did, interesting). The 2 stroke Detroit is an ideal engine for power generation. That are happiest running at rated RPM all day long. Why in road trucks they weren't the best choice as they don't like running at varied RPM. They made great generator engines.

The old saying applies... To drive a Detroit you slam your fingers in the door frame before you start it. My very first truck was 8V71 powered with a 4x4 twin stick. Only truck I ever owned that you had to downshift to go over a cigarette butt.....:D Most times the fuel pedal was flat on the floorboard.:D
It was, indeed, a GMC two stroke.

Model depended upon size and HP of scraper.

Dean
 

Magicman

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
M4900 Utility Special 4WD e/w FEL & 1530 John Deere "Traveling Man"
Oct 8, 2019
5,101
6,541
113
80
Brookhaven, MS
knotholesawmill.com
What LeTourneau designed was a wheel-hub of internal electromotive design that incorporated electro-braking. There was nothing new about diesel-electric systems....they were very common in WWI diesel-electric submarines and locomotives.
I never said that he invented Diesel over Electric. I said that he championed it which he did with his oversized earth moving machines. Yes, taxpayer's $$$ and military contracts contributed to his "success".

The same may be true with some of today's "good ideas".
 
Last edited:

SidecarFlip

Banned

Equipment
M9000HDCC3, M9000HD, Kubota GS850 Sidekick
Oct 28, 2018
7,197
548
83
USA
I never said that he invented Diesel over Electric. I said that he championed it which he did with his oversized earth moving machines. Yes, taxpayer's $$$ and military contracts contributed to his "success".

The same may be true with some of today's "good ideas".
Elon Musk maybe?
 

quazz

Member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
L3800 and Z411
Jan 6, 2014
296
4
18
Rockley, NS
Our internal combustion engine tractors will be obsolete at some point in the not too distant future.
 

dochsml

Member

Equipment
L4701HST
Jan 21, 2020
216
20
18
Leonard, TX, USA
Out with the old and in with the new? This isn't always the case. Radio coexists with television and TV will become obsolete before radio. Tractors do dirty work and all the electronics needed to operate a tractor that runs off unicorn farts and feelings don't like that dirt.
 

quazz

Member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
L3800 and Z411
Jan 6, 2014
296
4
18
Rockley, NS
Don't bet on it.

SDT
Everything becomes obsolete eventually. It doesn't mean they won't exist any more but they will be far less dominant. Some people still farm with horses too.

I am looking forward to laser mowers and bush hogs LOL!
 

GeoHorn

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
M4700DT, LA1002FEL, Ferguson5-8B Compactor-Roller, 10KDumpTrailer, RTV-X900
May 18, 2018
5,720
3,036
113
Texas
Yes as long as folks believe in smoke and mirrors and seemingly overlook the laws of physics.
Laws of physics? The way some folks don’t believe that the Eons known as the Carbonaceous Period stored-away enormous amounts of carbon which lowered the Earth’s temp and now Humans have been burning up enormous amounts of that fossilized-carbon which is returning the Earth to warmer conditions?

Naaahh.... Everyone can understand and believe in simple Physics!

It seems to me that we need to “follow the money” on this subject of Tier IV. When catalytic-converters were perfected and unleaded gasoline became the norm... all our lives and big-city pollution problems were significantly improved and cars became even more durable than the old clunkers we used to drive.
But first we had to endure those ridiculous air-pump/exhaust-injection system band-aids dealer-proprietary computer-diagnosis that were notoriously troublesome. Then out comes OBD and every shadetree can diagnose that the fuel cap is leaking or the number-2 Cylinder spark-ignition has failed.
We should insist that the same regulators that brought us emissions-controls should also require that systems be capable of diagnosis with simple/affordable tools for the shadetree. If a tractor mfr’r would include a simple display on the instrument panel that gave the operator the current-condition-diagnosis then that would be a huge selling point for that mfr’r over others. (One participant has already demonstrated that he chose a Kubota over a Red tractor because K obviously did it better.). That’s what all consumers do— follow the money.
The problem so-far is that different OEMs address emissions from different angles and that prevents an inexpensive shadetree tool. SideFlip has already admitted (unwittingly perhaps) that he knows the solution to Tier IV reliablity and is comfortable with it despite his previous objections: Read/Follow the manuals.
He just already has the tractors that will do his jobs for his predictable future.
What emissions-controls does is address the FUTURE problems of returning the Carbonaceous-Period to the atmosphere so our great-grandkids can live AND not blame us for killing their world prematurely. Just sitting on our duffs and blaming govt and other kids parents ain’t sensible OR christian. IMO
 

SDT

Well-known member

Equipment
multiple and various
Apr 15, 2018
3,084
926
113
SE, IN
Everything becomes obsolete eventually. It doesn't mean they won't exist any more but they will be far less dominant. Some people still farm with horses too.

I am looking forward to laser mowers and bush hogs LOL!
Well, the wheel has been around for quite a while.

I suppose that it may someday become obsolete but not in the "not too distant future." Same with the IC engine.

SDT
 

SDT

Well-known member

Equipment
multiple and various
Apr 15, 2018
3,084
926
113
SE, IN
Laws of physics? The way some folks don’t believe that the Eons known as the Carbonaceous Period stored-away enormous amounts of carbon which lowered the Earth’s temp and now Humans have been burning up enormous amounts of that fossilized-carbon which is returning the Earth to warmer conditions?

Naaahh.... Everyone can understand and believe in simple Physics!

It seems to me that we need to “follow the money” on this subject of Tier IV. When catalytic-converters were perfected and unleaded gasoline became the norm... all our lives and big-city pollution problems were significantly improved and cars became even more durable than the old clunkers we used to drive.
But first we had to endure those ridiculous air-pump/exhaust-injection system band-aids dealer-proprietary computer-diagnosis that were notoriously troublesome. Then out comes OBD and every shadetree can diagnose that the fuel cap is leaking or the number-2 Cylinder spark-ignition has failed.
We should insist that the same regulators that brought us emissions-controls should also require that systems be capable of diagnosis with simple/affordable tools for the shadetree. If a tractor mfr’r would include a simple display on the instrument panel that gave the operator the current-condition-diagnosis then that would be a huge selling point for that mfr’r over others. (One participant has already demonstrated that he chose a Kubota over a Red tractor because K obviously did it better.). That’s what all consumers do— follow the money.
The problem so-far is that different OEMs address emissions from different angles and that prevents an inexpensive shadetree tool. SideFlip has already admitted (unwittingly perhaps) that he knows the solution to Tier IV reliablity and is comfortable with it despite his previous objections: Read/Follow the manuals.
He just already has the tractors that will do his jobs for his predictable future.
What emissions-controls does is address the FUTURE problems of returning the Carbonaceous-Period to the atmosphere so our great-grandkids can live AND not blame us for killing their world prematurely. Just sitting on our duffs and blaming govt and other kids parents ain’t sensible OR christian. IMO
Automobiles became more durable and reliable in spite of catalytic converts. Not because of catalytic converters.

SDT
 

D2Cat

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
L305DT, B7100HST, TG1860, TG1860D, L4240
Mar 27, 2014
13,020
4,393
113
40 miles south of Kansas City
The automobile became more reliable because the Japanese had better machining ability after WW2, and put pressure on American manufactures to step op or be left behind. Engine tolerances and body fit were both better from Japan. The UAW didn't like it. They had signs in their parking lots, "No Foreign Vehicles Allowed". If there were there they got keyed, or turned up side down.

But when car dealers needed to stay in business they began carrying a foreign line of cars.