Front backhoe usefulness?

RichardD

New member

Equipment
MX5100
Nov 10, 2021
12
8
3
Kansas
I have thought about whether or not how useful a quick attach front backhoe would work on my tractor loader. I have a Kubota MX5100 with a FEL. There are quite a few manufacturers who make the front backhoe attachment, but most are used on a skid loader. I don’t have a skid loader and they say the front backhoe will work on a tractor. To me it looks like it wouldn’t work very well, a lot of moving the tractor around. If anyone has one on a tractor let me know what you think of it.
Thanks
Richard
 

UpNorthMI

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
L3200, L3901, MX5800, SVL75-2, KX040
May 12, 2020
850
564
93
Up North, MI
I have thought about whether or not how useful a quick attach front backhoe would work on my tractor loader. I have a Kubota MX5100 with a FEL. There are quite a few manufacturers who make the front backhoe attachment, but most are used on a skid loader. I don’t have a skid loader and they say the front backhoe will work on a tractor. To me it looks like it wouldn’t work very well, a lot of moving the tractor around. If anyone has one on a tractor let me know what you think of it.
Thanks
Richard
Richard,

im sure a fronthoe will mount on your MX and it will work but not sure it is a wise or great long term solution.

as you mentioned a lot of moving the tractor around and it would be very difficult to see what you are doing.

I own an MX, a track loader and an excavator, they are all different machines and have their uses. A backhoe puts a lot of force back through a tractor, that’s why they come with a heavy chassis rear type mount. A skid loader has a lot of weight and a very solid mounting front plate, very different to a front end loader on a tractor . Skid loader also has better hydraulic flow and controls.

I would not consider putting a front mount backhoe onto my tractor front end loader, as you say they are designed for skid / track loaders, I’d be seriously concerned about the FEL managing the forces involved.

Either get a backhoe for your tractor or rent a mini excavator when you need to.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

RichardD

New member

Equipment
MX5100
Nov 10, 2021
12
8
3
Kansas
Richard,

im sure a fronthoe will mount on your MX and it will work but not sure it is a wise or great long term solution.

as you mentioned a lot of moving the tractor around and it would be very difficult to see what you are doing.

I own an MX, a track loader and an excavator, they are all different machines and have their uses. A backhoe puts a lot of force back through a tractor, that’s why they come with a heavy chassis rear type mount. A skid loader has a lot of weight and a very solid mounting front plate, very different to a front end loader on a tractor . Skid loader also has better hydraulic flow and controls.

I would not consider putting a front mount backhoe onto my tractor front end loader, as you say they are designed for skid / track loaders, I’d be seriously concerned about the FEL managing the forces involved.

Either get a backhoe for your tractor or rent a mini excavator when you need to.
Thanks for your reply and advice. We may only use it a couple times a year for repairing frozen hydrants or something similar so it really makes economic sense to rent one when needed.
 

Jchonline

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
Kubota L6060, KX040-4, M7060, RTV X1100C, M62 (sold)
Oct 28, 2018
1,386
596
113
Red Feather Lakes, CO
Thanks for your reply and advice. We may only use it a couple times a year for repairing frozen hydrants or something similar so it really makes economic sense to rent one when needed.
Do not get a front backhoe. Backhoes worth anything at all are pretty heavy (BH92 is 1800 lbs and has only a 9 ft reach). Stresses of a backhoe require a very study mount to the subframe (they do make some 3PT hoes but I don't think they are a good idea). Mounting one to a FEL that has no direct frame support besides the mounting point by the operators station is asking for trouble.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users

Fladogman

Active member
Feb 1, 2020
116
82
28
Crawfordville Fl
I have a friend who has one for his skid steer, his biggest complaint is he can't see down in the hole very well, I would think it would be worse if it were on a tractor. In addition I feel the fel arms are not designed for the side force that a BH would apply.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

Crash277

Well-known member

Equipment
BX23S
Jan 17, 2021
846
622
93
Canada
Cheap....HF....Toys !
lol, ive never used one. just seems like an ok option for someone that doesnt dig lots. im actually surprised by how much i use the BH on my little BX. no regrets on getting a TLB.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users

fried1765

Well-known member

Equipment
Kubota L48 TLB, Ford 1920 FEL, Ford 8N, SCAG Liberty Z, Gravely Pro.
Nov 14, 2019
6,311
4,001
113
Eastham, Ma
lol, ive never used one. just seems like an ok option for someone that doesnt dig lots. im actually surprised by how much i use the BH on my little BX. no regrets on getting a TLB.
Your "little BX" is likely one fine digging machine compared to anything HF even dreams about!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

GreensvilleJay

Well-known member

Equipment
BX23-S,57 A-C D-14,58 A-C D-14, 57 A-C D-14,tiller,cults,Millcreek 25G spreader,
Apr 2, 2019
9,668
3,915
113
Greensville,Ontario,Canada
stuff to consider..
1) find a SS BH you 'like' the specs of....
2) see IF your tractor can supply the GPM@pressure for it( and what RPM...)
if it passes 1 and 2, what is the price, all in, delivery, taxes, etc.
consider how many hours you could rent a miniex for the SS BH....

also consider ,when the SSBH is on, your tractor is 'dedicated' to BH digging only...
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

fried1765

Well-known member

Equipment
Kubota L48 TLB, Ford 1920 FEL, Ford 8N, SCAG Liberty Z, Gravely Pro.
Nov 14, 2019
6,311
4,001
113
Eastham, Ma
stuff to consider..
1) find a SS BH you 'like' the specs of....
2) see IF your tractor can supply the GPM@pressure for it( and what RPM...)
if it passes 1 and 2, what is the price, all in, delivery, taxes, etc.
consider how many hours you could rent a miniex for the SS BH....

also consider ,when the SSBH is on, your tractor is 'dedicated' to BH digging only...
One more thing!
Consider how many times you would rent a mini-ex for that unplanned 30 minute job!
Convenience/availability is everything for a BH attachment.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users

Dustyx2

Active member

Equipment
BX22, M7060, Landpride RC-2512, Woodmax SB84
Feb 19, 2021
212
56
28
NE Wyoming
I have actually consider this too. I have seen two different styles of hoes. One is the hoe complete with boom and swing built in that you sit on, and the other that uses the skid steer boom and the skid steer to pivot. The second style wouldn't work for this. My concerns would also be the stress on the loader and if I could plant it sufficient to dig with. Our ground is HARD digging. I have the hydraulic capacity but not sure it's a good idea.

I have a BX with the hoe and it struggles in our hard ground. That said, I have used it a lot, and a lot of thing have got done here that wouldn't have if I didn't have it. The bigger projects I rent a excavator for. Not convenient, and I'm sure if I had a more capable unit, I would have more projects done.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

RichardD

New member

Equipment
MX5100
Nov 10, 2021
12
8
3
Kansas
Lots of interesting replies to my thread! Most of you reaffirmed some of my thoughts, ie: twisting load on the FEL, can’t see where I’m digging when seated in the tractor, moving the tractor around all the time, not very heavy duty. Our son had an outside water line break, he rented a small excavator machine and in an hour he was done, line repaired and the trench filled back in. I’ll just get him to fix my broken lines from now on!👍😂😂
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

BC2

New member

Equipment
L4060
Apr 20, 2023
20
5
3
TX
Richard,

im sure a fronthoe will mount on your MX and it will work but not sure it is a wise or great long term solution.

as you mentioned a lot of moving the tractor around and it would be very difficult to see what you are doing.

I own an MX, a track loader and an excavator, they are all different machines and have their uses. A backhoe puts a lot of force back through a tractor, that’s why they come with a heavy chassis rear type mount. A skid loader has a lot of weight and a very solid mounting front plate, very different to a front end loader on a tractor . Skid loader also has better hydraulic flow and controls.

I would not consider putting a front mount backhoe onto my tractor front end loader, as you say they are designed for skid / track loaders, I’d be seriously concerned about the FEL managing the forces involved.

Either get a backhoe for your tractor or rent a mini excavator when you need to.
Well, I was all stoked to get a Titan Fronthoe with a 10" bucket and thumb at $2,080 to use with an LA805 loader until I read this. Now I'm worried. Here's the logic I was using:

1. Won't be used a lot, but when I want it, the rental availability of a mini ex is unlikely to be there in our market without significant wait times (think months, and when the contractors are not using them, you're probably not using them either if it's because of weather). It's not uncommon to see rental units that are rented from about 100 miles from here during the height of construction season.

2. Primary expected uses are for trenching (most of which I can probably try to do in a pinch with a middle buster instead of a hoe), light excavating around the root zone of a tree to enable removing the tree stump down into the roots without resorting to a stump grinding only down to ground level, picking up small to mid size landscaping boulders, picking up sawn logs (some are pretty big diameter oaks and even a 3' length at full diameter is pretty heavy), minor smoothing out of stock tank shorelines, small burial pits for prunings that don't go through the chipper, and burn pits if necessary. I can do most of the picking up of rocks and sawn logs with my pallet forks without having the hoe, but maybe a little less convenient. Can't do much digging with a standard front end loader bucket though.

3. I am well aware that this system is limited on a tractor because of: (a) low flow and low pressure hydraulics which don't even come close to something like a high flow ASV track loader even in their 50hp range, and (b) lack of efficient side to side dump capability. I would think the hydraulic pressure is a factor, but the flow rate is probably not that important in this scenario since you are not going for high speed production and the rotation rate of the bucket is therefore pretty insignificant. The lack of side to side swing means that you are basically limited to digging maybe something like half the length of the fronthoe's arm without moving the tractor and you are likely to be moving the tractor in reverse in about 3' increments to make a long trench, so it's going to be a slow process for sure, but it might be faster than waiting weeks or months for a mini ex to become available for rent.

4. As to not being able to see in front of you to see what you are doing. A track loader is much better for this. However, I was wondering if you couldn't mount a couple of mirrors on the system like they use on school buses to help the driver see where the front bumper is, or even get one of those wireless rear view cameras that you can buy to mount on your license plate bracket and just mount it on the front of the tractor. Seems like that would solve the problem.

One thing that concerns me is the mention in this thread of damage to the loader arms and the implication that twisting and/or side loads on the arms is one of the problems. If you are only using an 8"-12" wide bucket and digging in soil, not rocks, where is the twisting/side loading coming from?

I know you have a load cantilevered pretty far out away from the pivot on the loader arms and the pivot is not as far back as with a track loader, but as you curl the bucket, the force and torque load on the loader arm driveshaft should rotate through vertical and down toward horizontal and away from the tractor so that it's trying to pull the tractor by the end of the curl. Is the concern that this set of forces is going to exceed the lift capacity of the loader arms and that in fact torque is not being applied in the "lift" direction but in the "lower" direction when you start the curl? I would think the loader arm driveshaft would have equal orifice sizes on the lift direction hydraulics and the lower (i.e. push down) direction hydraulics, so the hydraulic system shouldn't care whether you are lifting up or pushing down.

Now I'm not going to buy one until I think this out some more, look for other digging alternatives, and hopefully see some more comments on this thread. However, I'm not going to put a full blown backhoe on the back of the tractor, just too much cost & hassle for what I want to do, so that option is out for now.
 

PaulL

Well-known member

Equipment
B2601
Jul 17, 2017
2,098
1,103
113
NZ
Have you considered a chain digger for the 3ph/PTO? If one of your main uses is trenching, then chain diggers are awesome for that. Of course, they also cut every pipe or service you have in the ground, but if where you're digging is reasonably clear ground, it'll make a trench far faster than a front hoe, back hoe or mini ex. A second hand one might be quite reasonably priced.

For the other tasks you mention
- tree roots, probably live with them or wait until you can rent an appropriate machine
- lift and carry work - look at a grapple, way more useful anyway
- minor smoothing, burn pits you could do with the FEL
- burial pits....no good idea there. Perhaps just avoid the need to bury stuff?
 

Runs With Scissors

Well-known member

Equipment
L2501 TLB , Grappel, Brush Hog, Box Blade, Ballast box, Forks, Tiller, PH digger
Jan 25, 2023
1,720
1,821
113
Michigan
I am with the majority on this.

From seeing how my BH77 can twist, lift and jerk my machine around, there is no way I would want to subject my loader arms to that kind of abuse.

I think you'd be asking for serious trouble.
 

BC2

New member

Equipment
L4060
Apr 20, 2023
20
5
3
TX
I'm convinced. No fronthoe - thanks for saving me $2k plus whatever the tractor repairs would have cost! For trenching, plan ahead & use a rented DitchWitch. For picking up, I'm still not quite on board with the grapple even though I see rave reviews of them all over the web, although it is running neck & neck with a WR Long 4 in 1 bucket from EA. The bucket would allow pickup of material as well as blading of ranch road gravel and maybe a little shallow digging/scraping without changing implements - I know it's a jack of all trades/master of none implement that can't carry as much volume as a grapple, but it can also carry smaller stuff than most models of grapple can. The bucket would put any loads on the tractor/loader arms on a shorter moment arm, so maybe it's a bit of improvement over the fronthoe in that respect. It's disadvantages are weight and cost (almost twice as much as a cheap grapple), but even with a 72" 510lb 4 in 1 bucket model, my calculations are that you can fill the just under 12 cf bucket to struck capacity with rock and still be within the load limit of the LA805 at most, if not all, lift heights. I don't need to be able to lift and dump over the side of a dump truck, only need about half the lift height at most.
 

PaulL

Well-known member

Equipment
B2601
Jul 17, 2017
2,098
1,103
113
NZ
4 in 1 buckets are very common in NZ, mostly because we don't really have grapples in a size for a small tractor (small market, long way from anywhere), and Kubota don't option their tractors with quick attach here (or even offer it at all....apparently because NZers are too cheap to buy it).

They're nothing like a grapple.

If your price for a 4 in 1 is similar to the price for a SSQA adaptor, plus standard bucket, plus grapple, then that'd be way way better. Standard bucket is more durable and lighter. Grapple can do more, rotate to more angles, grab stuff better.

I don't recommend you do this with your grapple, but EA apparently think it's a reasonable thing to do.