Fire quick response

[pmhowe]

I'm figuring that this year is going to be as bad or worse than the recent previous years for forest fire danger. My house borders about a million acres of national forest. I'm currently doing my planning. Beyond the obvious (a) run when necessary, taking loved ones, pets, valuables, (b) fire mitigation stuff around house, farm, etc.), I am trying to sort through the sensible other things I can do to prepare/deal with fires.

In particular, I'm thinking it would be good to do something before the fire department arrives. I'm thinking about the following:
1. Build a small holding pond for water supply - perhaps 10,000 gallons or so.
2. Buy a fire pump with hose - I'm thinking a small system with 8-10 gal/min flow rate, 2" input, 1" and/or 1.5" output. (Trailer mounted? 3pt hitch? Long hose?) This would allow addressing initial fires caused by lightning, cigarettes, car crash, etc. I suspect early response, putting out a little fire before it gets big is the best way to go.
3. What else?

I'd really like to know what you are doing/thinking.

Thanks for your input.

PMH

 

[dmanlyr]

Short of leaving and of course general brush cleaning - I would make sure that any trees that might fall are far enough away from the house that if they fall, they will not fall on the roof / close to the house to spread the fire behind you.

As to the pump, I would consider a few of the small honda pumps, not one. As they wil tend to fail from the debri in the air and water. Same with the pump pickup hoses, have a few spare hoses and strainers, they will clog from the debri in the water supply.

Nothing worse than being stranded in the middle of a fire with water left and no way to pump it, or having to take time out to clean things out and restart. By then the fire might have rolled right over you.

Place hoses only on cleared ground and have a pre arranged plan on hose deployment before the fire gets there taking into account wind, terrain and flammable items.

Don't try and save remote outbuildings, concentrate on the main structures.

Personally I would figure on installing a pool with about 20 to 24 thousand gallons myself. That way you can use it for fun and as a backup. Above ground plastic type tanks can fail from the heat. They do make below ground cisterns that would be better that a pool or pond as it cuts down on the debri in the water, but that can be a hard sell when a pool can be used for fun with the family. Sometimes a easier sell to the spouse.

Just some random quick thoughts - David

PS, you are right in a wildfire the fire department is going to take its limited resources and try and fight the fire like a military manuver, which may mean that your house is considered a expendable asset. Nothing wrong with this, they cannot be every where.

 

[seanbarr]

Finally, I can have some input to this forum!

I was a former firefighter with wild land background in San Bernardino County, CA for both California Dept of Forestry (CDF) and the county itself. Our territory almost always covers areas where we get annual brush & forest fires.

The most advice we consistently give is always preparedness, doing things way in advance before the first embers land on your property. Building firebreaks along the perimeter can double as trails and serve as easy access for you & firefighters.

I'm sure you've got these simple steps covered but it wouldn't hurt for a review. The most common problem is the failure to "harden" your home with fire resistant shingles, enclosed eaves, improper windows, walls, and the fuel-filled dry deck. That is the most important because you want the house to survive should you be away from your home! I've seen a single, unattended, unscathed home standing in the middle of 30-40 that perished despite firefighting efforts.

http://www.readyforwildfire.org/

I should point out that fire typically burns along the ground. If there's little fuel from ground level up to 6 ft, it has a terrible time traversing. Many fires are this way. Thin out dense groves of saplings & young trees and cut branches from mature trees.

While wheeled tank water is helpful, be ready to do without. Have a bunch of shovels, Pulaski (axe & adze in one), McLeod (A MUST!), chain saws, axes, etc. for fuel reduction strategy if there is a fire in your area. Fire can move extremely fast and can entrap you thus I do not recommend that you try to fight the fire on your own. Always put life before property. Try to win through preventative methods instead, you'll come out ahead. If you get a tank trailer, build racks to hold some basic gear as I mentioned and paint it red with gold leaf lettering!

Now to the other details, here's what you can do for firefighters in your area before they arrive.

You're spot on into investing a body of water. In rural areas where they utilize 4x4 pumpers, they usually have a capacity of 500 gallons (typical city pumper is 1500 gallons) and the access to any available water is always, always appreciative. If possible, install a dry hydrant system if you have a large body of water, pond, etc that you can access. Ask the local fire dept for size & fittings recommendations.

Here's are some of the other recommendations...

• A large, prepared sign visible from the street that lets them know helps with their strategy, "5,000 gallon pool at back" is always helpful if they don't know what you have should you have to leave before they arrive in the area.
• Set up ladders ready to go for roof access, more than one is encouraged & leave them in place.
• Don't forget the propane tank. They go "boom". Move them inside.
• Have garden hoses charged & ready with whatever attachment that allows water to be turned on at the end.
• If you have a flammable roof, setup a sprinkler or two and turn them on to wet the entire roof.
• Open fireplace damper and close fireplace screens.
• Close all doors, windows, vents, remove all flammable curtains & move flammable objects away from windows.
• Have your vehicle ready with change of clothes, valuables, medicine, documents, insurance, etc in the car ready to go at a moments notice, facing out & go when told.
• Leave room for the fire department to back their vehicle in your driveway should they try to use your water and/or fight on your property. Move other cars out of the way.

That's the gist of the list!

 

[Eric McCarthy]

I was kicking around this idea for a while and to add to what Seanbarr was saying. I came up with the idea of excavating a fire break between your property and the wooded area that surrounds you. As Seanbarr mention fires spread across the ground and up 6ft in height. If you're able to clear out a path from the edge of your property I'd say maybe 12ft or so wide and have bare dirt.

 

[ipz2222]

Be prepared to defend yourself. Good words. A nerghbor's house burnt last year and it shouldn't have. There was someone in the house when it caught fire and he fire department was called. The house is about 1,400 feet ,( yes, feet) from the fire hall and a fire hydrant is less than 900 feet from the house. They were able to save the deck chaires on the far side of the swimming pool. !!! I have since spent over $400 on extra fire extingushers for every room in my house and 1 very large one in the garage. I don't expect the police to save me when someone breaks into my house and I don't expect the fire dept to save my house, well maybe if my neighbor's is on fire, then they can prevent mine from catching fire. NO disrespect to fire fighters meant, it's just the way it is. By the way, a firefighter is the most respected person in the US, a congressman is one of the least respected. (source), The day america told the truth.

 

[G-Man]

Very good thread here. Two years ago we have a very bad fire season. Each and every day we got calls and multiple a day. Good plan make for good results. Now is a very good time to make sure all dead leaves and stuff is away from your house and building. Make sure if you have a deck to clean out underneath too. Lots of kindling gets it way under decks.

 

[kchampagne]

Pmhowe, I greatly share your concerns as I live in Littleton and have a place in Bailey. I agree with all of the great advice already posted. I would raise one red flag with your idea to build a small holding pond: it could be in violation of Colorado water law if you impound water without water rights. As you know water rights issues are big in CO and I've seen too many private individuals get into big legal trouble for building ponds. I am not sure if a swimming pool could help you get around this. If you have water rights via your well permit or surface water ( stream, creek, spring), just verify with the state before spending your valuable time and resources building it. Fingers crossed that we get abundant precipitation this spring!!

 

[kubseki]

Don't forget protective clothing ...boots, gloves, goggles etc.

 

[Eric McCarthy]

Pmhowe, I greatly share your concerns as I live in Littleton and have a place in Bailey. I agree with all of the great advice already posted. I would raise one red flag with your idea to build a small holding pond: it could be in violation of Colorado water law if you impound water without water rights. As you know water rights issues are big in CO and I've seen too many private individuals get into big legal trouble for building ponds. I am not sure if a swimming pool could help you get around this. If you have water rights via your well permit or surface water ( stream, creek, spring), just verify with the state before spending your valuable time and resources building it. Fingers crossed that we get abundant precipitation this spring!!

Well one way to get around that issue is build a shallow swimming pool aka pond in the backyard and install a sliding board at one end. Can you get in trouble for a shallow in ground pool??

 

[skeets]

A few years ago a bunch of us went fishing in the GWN up around Hurst, and one of the lakes we worked our way back into had several homes, or I should say several LARGE, summer homes around the lake. And each one had , and this is an assumption on my part fire suppresion systems, that looked like sprinklers under the eves and along the ridge or the roof, and a shed with burried pipes going out into the lake, you could see them about 10 feet down 3 or 4 incher pipes, it looked like strainers on the ends. And there was no brush or large trees for maybe 200 feet all around each of these homes. Over kill I do't know but it sure would give me piece of mind,, them Canucks know how to burn a forest down,,,lol

 

[pmhowe]

Many thanks to each of you for your comments. The ideas presented here are very helpful and most of them are easy to implement. In hindsight, most of them are common sense. However, to be truthful, there are several I didn’t think of, so I now have my marching orders.

Sean, I’m curious: I have glass doors on my fireplace insert, and a wire mesh cap to serve as a spark arrestor on top of my chimney. Why is it necessary/desirable to leave the fireplace damper open? I wouldn’t think it would make any difference, open or closed.

Kchampagne, thanks for reminding me about the pond building issues. I will verify with the state before building a pond. I’m lucky in that there is a good year-round stream running through the property, there are remnants of a dam remaining from years ago, and the home has two water permits, one for household use and one for irrigation. So, there is a decent chance the state will allow me to reactivate the previous pond. We’ll see! I realize I am dealing with a state that, until a couple of years ago, considered it illegal to collect and use rainwater!

Thank you all again for your input. Lots of good ideas.

 

[seanbarr]

The reason to keep the damper open is to keep the pressure both inside & outside the same. Wildfires create their own weather patterns and can generate high winds. With the house closed up to prevent embers from getting inside, the pressure can suck in embers. The chimney with the open damper provides the best avenue to equalize pressure and the closed fireplace will keep embers from passing into the room.

I should add two things that is handy to have, flappers, basically tools with a flat square piece of rubber attached on one end, it's used to smother flames. The other is any containers of water around the home (kiddie pool, trash cans, etc) and wet towels can be beneficial.

And forgot another cardinal must, shut off the gas line at the main.

 

[skeets]

We’ll see! I realize I am dealing with a state that, until a couple of years ago, considered it illegal to collect and use rainwater!

My friend you have got to explain that one to me

 

[pmhowe]

With the house closed up to prevent embers from getting inside, the pressure can suck in embers. The chimney with the open damper provides the best avenue to equalize pressure and the closed fireplace will keep embers from passing into the room.

I should add two things that is handy to have, flappers, basically tools with a flat square piece of rubber attached on one end, it's used to smother flames. The other is any containers of water around the home (kiddie pool, trash cans, etc) and wet towels can be beneficial.

And forgot another cardinal must, shut off the gas line at the main.

Sean, thanks again. I would never have thought of the pressure equalization issue, but it is a very good point. I'm making a checklist for implement early this spring and will add this and your other suggestions to it.

Skeets, I'll start a separate thread to address your question.

Phil