Considering a L5030 HSTC
- Thread starter Shawn T. W
- Start date
It has nothing to do with how many gears you have. It's just the simple fact that engine rpm, pto rpm and ground speed are all directly related and inseparable with gear drive tractors unless the clutch is disengaged.
This is an important difference when running a rotary cutter and making tight turns on a headland for example. It's also why the bigger Ag equipment uses CVT for the most part, specifically to allow for constant PTO rpm regardless of ground speed.
I do prefer running the M6060 over the MX for many tasks, but I try to be open and honest about their differences without any bias.
The compact tractors, or even small utilities aren't gonna have the 24 - 32 48? gears that a 100+ HP row crop tractor does, yes more gears mean more choices for ground speed ... An HST is very variable in ground speed ... My SCUT will go slow with the engine at 1500 RPM with the pedal mashed to the floor, increase RPM to 3000 RPM it will go much faster, but at 3000 RPM I can also let up on the pedal, and go much slower (or stop) than at 1500 and "floored" ...
Some tractors have electronics that allow you to maintain speed, or RPM, other settings allow you to drive it like a car, harder you step on the pedal, engine RPM increases, along with ground speed ... But, that's too much electronics for me, I'm more old school, be glad to get out of the computer called a semi-truck!
Some tractors have electronics that allow you to maintain speed, or RPM, other settings allow you to drive it like a car, harder you step on the pedal, engine RPM increases, along with ground speed ... But, that's too much electronics for me, I'm more old school, be glad to get out of the computer called a semi-truck!
Are you accentuating that I’m not open and honest? Please elaborate.
As far as bias, I do favor geared and not prejudiced against HST. Not sure what you mean. I have OWNED and OPERATED all.
As far as your example of slowing and turning using gears vs HST. Geared use your left foot for clutch, HST use your right foot or hand for lever or petal. I’ll take the left foot all day long with the others benefits of geared over HST.
It seems to me that you're not open to the idea that both HST and geared have their pros and cons, so your responses don't come across as being objective.
As to your comment re slowing and turning, explain what you do in your tractor when you need to make a U-turn on the headlands when mowing for example. Go through your process and comment on engine rpm and PTO rpm before, during and after the turn.
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I keep engine and PTO RPMs the same throughout that I have previously set and use clutch for slowing and accelerating. Pretty simple.
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What are the pros of HST that you speak of ? And how am I not open and honest ?
What about me lying?
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If you're use the clutch for slowing down and speeding up, how long do you get before a clutch replacement is required.
Never replaced one running my own tractors for over 30 years.
Im not running on featherd clutch as you might be thinking. Full clutch depressed to slow and feather to accelerate like you do in your 18 wheeler.
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Nobody said you were lying, you're reading a bit too much into a comment someone probably typed in 30 seconds on a mobile phone on the internet.
You aren't particularly open to HST. It's fine that you have a preference for gear drive. I'd say that something like 70% of people on this forum prefer HST, other than for ground engaging tasks.
Yes, on a big tractor you can set your revs, then select a gear that gives the ground speed you want, then go. Works really well on flat land, particularly plowing or the like.
When mowing in a bumpy paddock, a lot of people with an HST would set their revs to run the mower, then ease their HST up and down to vary their travel speed to avoid hammering into bumps. That's what I do when mowing on my machine (which is way smaller with smaller wheels, and very sensitive to bumps).
Headlands are also different (arguably better) on an HST. You can ease into it, power around the headland, speed up again on the other side. If you're putting your clutch in, you're counting on coasting around the turn. May work, may not, depending on what sort of terrain you're on. If it doesn't work, then you're riding the clutch or changing gear. Changing gears in a tractor isn't like changing gears in a road going vehicle, it usually means stop, pick new gear, start again. Then stop again once around the turn, pick new gear, start again. Not saying it's always like that, but for some people's terrain it is.
For loader work I would still maintain HST is dramatically better. A geared tractor usually requires shifting gears, unless your carry speed and your "driving into the pile" speed are the same. An HST is much more flexible. Yes, in theory you can just use a shuttle, and go the same speed backwards and forwards. If you're working in a small area that may be fine. For much of the loader work I do, that wouldn't be fine and I'd be changing gear quite a bit. Tractor clutches are heavy and clunky. I prefer not to do that, an HST gives me a lot more flexibility.
I'm not saying you're wrong to like a gear drive tractor. People like what they like, and opinions cannot be wrong. But I am saying that other people are also right to like an HST, and there are reasons for their opinion. Their opinion, by definition, also cannot be wrong - it's their opinion. It's OK for people's opinions to differ.
My thought when seeing that picture is "D2Cat knows how to use a VSR drill"
Anyone who can control the joystick for something as twitchy looking as that has certainly also mastered the use of the switch on a variable speed tool.
Firstly, thanks for the reply. I knew the answer to the question of the pros of HST over gear before I asked the question. I owned and worked an HST for thousands of hours.
I was hoping the dude that inferred I was not honest in my assessments would get back with me on that answer because from the question he asked me, I’m not confident ( to say nicely) he knows how to effectively and efficiently run a geared tractor ( that he owns ) and I was hoping for enlightenment on HSTs.
He did say I was lying. I gave some opinions and he answered directly toward me saying “… but I try to be open and honest about their differences without any bias.” WTF !
That’s OK, but not cool.
I think most people that have HST tractors like them because of their pros, OK with cons and they certainly get the job done. Most compact and mid range sold are HST. I do think Kubota by far are the best, most reliable tractors made, and I’ve worked most all since I was 14.
The pros just didn’t out weigh the cons for ME on HST. Weaker, louder, less fuel efficient, tiring, runs much hotter on engine and operator, didn’t like HST petal, constant high RPMs to do ANYTHING. The HST I had just drained me working it ALL day.
In retrospect, I prob should not have bashed the HST so critically for the OP on his potential buy.
He did ask for opinions, but for what he is going to do with the tractor it would work fine.
I do have strong opinions on my dislike of HST working tractors. I was so happy to get rid of mine,
but everyones tasks are drastically different.
Thanks for your input.
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Youbet, i find your comments entertaining. You tell us how experienced you are with all machinery and specifically a HST tractor you owned. Listing the Cons of that tractor and how you were happy to get rid of it. However you also stated, "..... I was hoping for enlightenment on HSTs."
Your posts beginning with #21 only discuss how you dislike HST and how your tractor is better. I posted pictures of a hydraulic saw and stated why HST is the tractor us use in that situation. Where I was working and what I was doing your tractor would be a tedious job.
Are you related to Flip?
Your posts beginning with #21 only discuss how you dislike HST and how your tractor is better. I posted pictures of a hydraulic saw and stated why HST is the tractor us use in that situation. Where I was working and what I was doing your tractor would be a tedious job.
Are you related to Flip?
So what you're saying is that you're slipping the clutch in a turn while the engine and PTO are under load (engine rpm in the 1,850 to 2,200 range) in order to reduce ground speed, while theoretically maintaining a constant engine rpm and PTO speed. Is that an accurate summary?
Don’t know Flip.
I think I said running that saw on front that HST is prob better for that application, but I do the same thing with a different implement for tree trimming with shuttle shift without complaint.
i Don’t need validating, I’m just giving my opinions on doing the same things with different tractors. That’s all.
I understand you, my question with you came from for question about straight from the valve or something you said and I was confused. I thought maybe you were talking about the hydraulics for your saw.
As far as your comment on me looking for enlightenment from the “honest one” on HST.
Just like you, I like getting entertained also.
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Why can’t someone give their reasons why they like or dislike something and happy to get rid of it and buy something else they are happier with? That’s how I learn, from other people.
I understand some people take comments about anything that they own and take it somehow personally. Sorry
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No.
Get the gear you want from first row for speed, along with corresponding engine RPM to get your 540 RPMs on PTO for example and set that ( if you don’t know how, look it up).
You might want to adjust gears with engine RPMs if too fast or bumpy or whatever then reset.
At turn, depress clutch to slow momentum and make turn. Lift implement if needed. If you slow
too much then feather clutch to adjust speed, just like you do for a motorcycle, car, truck, or anything with a manual transmission in a tight turn but keep engine / PTO RPMs that have been preset. Coming out of turn everything is set for RPMs on engine and therefore PTO. Don’t change gears and speed is perfect, just roll and think about something beautiful.
I’m confused on “under load” and “theoretically maintaining a constant engine rpm” on your engine and PTO comment for turns. Everything is still turning at same speed from preset ( a little more from reduced load ).
Are you saying that YOU reduce engine RPMs at each turn and then increase engine RPMs to get corresponding PTO RPMs where you want when you come out of each turn, and possibly gear,
changing your PTO RPMs that are not correct throughout your turn and at the start of each new row while moving or stopped?
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I think this is the bit that has people confused.
I think in your use, you coast around the turn. So you clutch coming into the turn, which loses speed and coasts around the turn. When you're facing the other way you let the clutch out again, which is no worse on the clutch than any start (and better than starting from a stand still).
But in other people's minds, the way they turn wouldn't be to coast all the way around. Either because of their terrain, or obstacles, or how they choose to drive their machine, they would slow down and turn slowly. And so, they're going to need power during the turn. Which then means either slipping the clutch, or changing gear to get the right speed for that turn.
That's fine, your machine, you can slip (or "feather") the clutch if you want. Other people don't want.
I think this comes back to wanting to turn slowly, and not being able to do it by just coasting. So one answer is to lower revs while you turn, then increase revs again after the turn. Which would work, but would mean the implement doesn't have 540RPM during that turn. Which might matter (if it's mowing for example, and the implement is still mowing), or might not matter (if it's a seed drill that you lifted while you turned anyway). Horse for courses.
Anyway, probably done this to death. I think we've established that you like gear tractors, and for your usage they work fine, and for your usage HST wasn't real good. This forum has a lot of people who aren't row crop farming, their usage isn't going up and down rows all day for 8 (or 12) hours. And HST is good for at lot of those other uses people put their machines to.
I think this is the bit that has people confused.
I think in your use, you coast around the turn. So you clutch coming into the turn, which loses speed and coasts around the turn. When you're facing the other way you let the clutch out again, which is no worse on the clutch than any start (and better than starting from a stand still).
But in other people's minds, the way they turn wouldn't be to coast all the way around. Either because of their terrain, or obstacles, or how they choose to drive their machine, they would slow down and turn slowly. And so, they're going to need power during the turn. Which then means either slipping the clutch, or changing gear to get the right speed for that turn.
That's fine, your machine, you can slip (or "feather") the clutch if you want. Other people don't want.
I think this comes back to wanting to turn slowly, and not being able to do it by just coasting. So one answer is to lower revs while you turn, then increase revs again after the turn. Which would work, but would mean the implement doesn't have 540RPM during that turn. Which might matter (if it's mowing for example, and the implement is still mowing), or might not matter (if it's a seed drill that you lifted while you turned anyway). Horse for courses.
Anyway, probably done this to death. I think we've established that you like gear tractors, and for your usage they work fine, and for your usage HST wasn't real good. This forum has a lot of people who aren't row crop farming, their usage isn't going up and down rows all day for 8 (or 12) hours. And HST is good for at lot of those other uses people put their machines to.
I'll add one other comment though on the lying bit.
So you believe that @McMXi said you were lying. But a direct quote of what he said is:
He didn't say you were lying. He did imply that you were biased, in that he made a point that he was trying not to be biased. Biased is not lying, it's just putting a spin on things. And you did do that. You put a pretty strong opinion that geared tractors were much better, and that HSTs had many disadvantages. His point was that HSTs also have advantages, something that in your later posts you also said, so you actually kind of agree with him. And @McMXi has both an HST and a geared tractor, and is usually pretty clear he likes his geared machine more (at least in part because it's bigger and better).
The internet is full of people who write things quickly without thinking about it real hard. You can read things in a way where they're an attack on you, or you can read the same thing and go "oh, he probably just meant that I'd ignored some of the benefits of an HST."
It actually doesn't matter too much what @McMXi really meant (although he's been around here for a while, and is normally pretty mild). If you read things on the internet and read them as an attack, you're going to have twice the blood pressure you need to, and your life will be full of people p*ssing you off. Whereas if you read the same thing and go "oh, right, he has a different opinion" your life will be much more pleasant. Whether it's true or not - because you can never know what's really true on the internet.
Just my 10c.