BX25D - another... Cold related diesel gel jelling issue thread

[randee]

Thought I would ask the pros!

So last year I learned the hard way the tractor doesn't like 20 degrees below zero. So since then, I have been adding a anti-gel additive to my fuel. I never know when they switch to "winter mix" or if they did, so I just always add the additive. In fact, I have been adding double the recommended amount just in case. (the packaging says it will not harm the engine to add more - right or wrong) Yet, I was trying to get some things done yesterday and had a hell of a time. It would run for 10minutes that keep bouncing back and forth between good and rough. I was working in 25degrees the day before and didn't have one problem, yet yesterday it was 18 degrees and it didn't like that at all.

It's a 2014 Kubota BX25d. It's been about 100hrs since I have changed my fuel filters. I have about 350hrs on it.

First question, what can I do to get up and running? It should be a few degrees warmer the next couple days so might just fix itself.

Second question, what can I do besides additives to not have this issue. I was going to buy an engine block warmer, but not sure how that would warm up the fuel lines/filters? Could I get some heat tape and zip tie it around the fuel lines and filters and plug it in? or is will that make my tractor explode?
Is this additive, which had decent reviews, just junk?


Really ticks me off when you need to move some snow, or get a vehicle unstuck and the tractor refuses to move! As I was sitting on my tractor as it was acting up I could see my neighbors 80's kubota cleaning up his driveway. So I know I am doing something foolish...

Here is video of it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mcm0rmG-imM

Thanks for any help!

 

[Ike]

I think you have water in your tank. When it does this pull your fuel filter and I bet you will find it iced up

 

[stumpcutter]

the additive keeps fuel from gelling nothing for water in filter from freezing follow Ikes advice

 

[DevilDog]

I agree with the previous posters as the Howe's is a quality product that I myself use her in upstate New York, this year we had -15 degrees and my Grand L3540 always started. Check for water or contaminant in BOTH of your Fuel Filters.
DevilDog

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Can you get it in a warm shop or garage where you can heat it up?
If so You need to drain all of the fuel and YEP most likely water out of the unit.

Draining it where it's cold won't work because it will still be frozen in the tank filters and lines.

After you get it drained, replace both filters and purge the system of air then try it again.

Also check your air filter, it is rare, but I've seen wet debris clog that up too.

 

[randee]

I think you have water in your tank. When it does this pull your fuel filter and I bet you will find it iced up

Okay I will give that a shot, going to be a hassle since it's freezing cold, but what are you going to do? Be nice to have a heated garage, or something.

I bought this after reading something about this and water:
http://a.co/2WmBxii

So all the fuel I put in goes through this filter, which is supposed to remove water. Only a few times when I filled up straight from the pump did I miss going through this filter. I try to keep it full as well. What other precautions can I do to remove water?

I have considered doing a fuel filter mod like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qM8D2ggPQJc
to make that part of maintenance easier.

 

[randee]

the additive keeps fuel from gelling nothing for water in filter from freezing follow Ikes advice

Thanks stumpcutter, I will give it a shot!

 

[randee]

I agree with the previous posters as the Howe's is a quality product that I myself use her in upstate New York, this year we had -15 degrees and my Grand L3540 always started. Check for water or contaminant in BOTH of your Fuel Filters.
DevilDog

Thanks Devil Dog, good to know that's a quality product. I know my dad said it always worked for him. I am thinking that water must have always been my problem since when it gets cold, that is the same behavior.

Now I just got to figure out the best way to keep the water out of there. Wonder if it is ending up in my 5gl diesel cans. Hmm...

 

[stumpcutter]

the filter mod you posted in #6 is great idea except use racor filter/water separator kit # 320R-rac-01 bit pricy but it can eliminate tractor not starting word to the wise don't get knock off brand again RACOR also power services 911 might help if you can't get it in heater shop but use it as directed it has alcohol in it wait for other senior members to chime in on its use good luck

 

[Dave_eng]

I am suggesting you build an inexpensive 12 volt fueling system.
You pump from your cans through a Goldenrod water filter and into your tractor's tank.
No more water issues!!!

No more lifting heavy cans and splashing yourself with diesel.

https://www.amazon.com/Diesel-Keros...-6&keywords=12+volt+diesel+fuel+transfer+pump

Goldenrod water filter.

Use Anderson plugs. One connected to your battery, the other to your fuel transfer pump leads. These are rated for 50 amps. Higher amperage ones are readily available if you wanted to power a winch.

When I used cans many years ago, I always found water in the bottom once warm weather arrived.

With a bulk tank and Goldenrod filter, I have never, in 20 years, found any water in my tractors' water separators.

Dave

 

[randee]

Can you get it in a warm shop or garage where you can heat it up?
If so You need to drain all of the fuel and YEP most likely water out of the unit.

Draining it where it's cold won't work because it will still be frozen in the tank filters and lines.

After you get it drained, replace both filters and purge the system of air then try it again.

Also check your air filter, it is rare, but I've seen wet debris clog that up too.

Thanks Wolfman,

It will be 40 degrees here in a couple days, hopefully enough to that it out. I will have to order some replacement fuel filters.

I did check the air filter, just because it's an easy check.

So I know I just filled up the tank, so you are thinking the entire tank is suspect, empty it and discard?

 

[randee]

I am suggesting you build an inexpensive 12 volt fueling system.
Dave

Wow, that's impressive, thanks for that. I will get started on that right away. I hate using those can's to fill up my tractor. Also, I use that little filter/funnel thing and it slowly fills up to, so I have to poor really slow. It's not too bad, cause I can usually steady it on the hand grab.

Ok, I will look at building something. Thanks for the info, very cool...

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

So I know I just filled up the tank, so you are thinking the entire tank is suspect, empty it and discard?

Empty it, you'll see the water in the bottom of the fuel, and re filter not taking the water if nothing else.

 

[07wingnut]

After all those precautions, you could still experience the same problems if water condensation occurs in the fuel tank itself. The only way to prevent that is to keep your fuel tank on the tractor full.

 

[randee]

After all those precautions, you could still experience the same problems if water condensation occurs in the fuel tank itself. The only way to prevent that is to keep your fuel tank on the tractor full.

Good point, makes me think I should first work on changing the primary fuel filter to a filter that has a water separator. Most often I keep the tank between 3/4 and full. I fill it up before I use it, and I rarely use it more than 1/4 of a tank at a time. I am think I will start topping it off, when I am done using it. Per everyone's suggestions here..

Thanks wingnut.

 

[Ike]

Thanks Devil Dog, good to know that's a quality product. I know my dad said it always worked for him. I am thinking that water must have always been my problem since when it gets cold, that is the same behavior.

Now I just got to figure out the best way to keep the water out of there. Wonder if it is ending up in my 5gl diesel cans. Hmm...

Most of the logging operations around here use Howes and they don't have any problems in -0 temps. But a couple had water problems this winter and it was narrowed down to one supplier

 

[Ike]

I agree on keeping the tank full especially if your tank is metal. I seldom keep mine full but I have a plastic tank which does not sweat as much. I also watch my sediment bowl as it has a clear bowl with a red ring in it to tell you if there is water in it. I wish Kubota would have put a drain in the bottom of this bowl

 

[randee]

Good point, makes me think I should first work on changing the primary fuel filter to a filter that has a water separator.

Thanks wingnut.

Quick update for anyone following along.

So I did a quick job to get a different primary filter. There was definitely something wrong with that filter. I pulled the hose that went from the filter to the pump and it was dripping out, pulled the filter off and it poured out. This was after it's been 40deg for a couple days, so I don't think it was a cold issue, and not sure if it was even a water issue... I am thinking it might have been just a filthy filter completely blocked?

So what I did:
Took out primary filter, and put in a shutoff valve connected to the tank line. http://a.co/iw5zrTj
Ran new hose from shutoff to new fuel filter/water separator. http://a.co/7fIdsyx
Ran new hose from new filter to original fuel pump. http://a.co/7ICEMqJ
All with these clamps, I don't like the original clamps. http://a.co/ifDFBTe

I mounted it in front of the brake on left hand side using a bolt that was already there. I just made a simple bracket to hold it. Hopefully I will make something better later. I am sure Paul Short would not be impressed (his setup is beautiful) but it gets the tractor working again for me. Original kubota secondary filter after the fuel pump. All stock fuel pump to engine.

Before I did this, I disconnected the fuel line to the engine and with the fuel pump on it just dripped. Then after this, I checked the same spot and it sprayed out, like under pressure. For under $80, it wasn't too bad. I want to say I changed those filters out about 150hrs ago when I did my 200hr service. I think my manual says like every 500hrs? So I must be introducing some bad stuff in my fuel. I decided to go to a different place to by diesel now as well, they sell "off road" diesel so it's a few cents cheaper as well. Hopefully it will be better fuel.

Now this summer I will work on Dave_eng post on getting cleaner fuel into my tank. Also might make a better bracket that protects the filter a bit. However, I usually have my mowing deck so it's mostly protected. I also need to buy some loom for the fuel line too.

Thanks for everyone's help!

 

[armylifer]

After reading your solution for fixing the problem I think that you have done almost all you can do to prevent the problem from reoccurring. There are two more things that I can suggest that may help you in the future.

1. Mix your diesel with kerosene at a 50% - 50% mixture in the winter. This helps prevent gelling more than any other thing that you can do with your fuel.

2. This part is just my experience and there may be some that will disagree me, but I add 1 ounce of acetone per every three gallons of fuel to prevent condensation related problems. I do this at every fill up all year long. The acetone absorbs more water than alcohol does and it is actually a cleaner more efficient burning additive than alcohol is. As I said, this may be controversial but I have been doing this to my gasoline and diesel powered vehicles for about 30 years without any sort of problems. If you decide to try it, make sure that you are getting pure acetone. It is available in one gallon cans in the paint section at all Walmart stores for about $14.00 per gallon.

 

[randee]

After reading your solution for fixing the problem I think that you have done almost all you can do to prevent the problem from reoccurring. There are two more things that I can suggest that may help you in the future.

1. Mix your diesel with kerosene at a 50% - 50% mixture in the winter. This helps prevent gelling more than any other thing that you can do with your fuel.

2. This part is just my experience and there may be some that will disagree me, but I add 1 ounce of acetone per every three gallons of fuel to prevent condensation related problems. I do this at every fill up all year long. The acetone absorbs more water than alcohol does and it is actually a cleaner more efficient burning additive than alcohol is. As I said, this may be controversial but I have been doing this to my gasoline and diesel powered vehicles for about 30 years without any sort of problems. If you decide to try it, make sure that you are getting pure acetone. It is available in one gallon cans in the paint section at all Walmart stores for about $14.00 per gallon.

Thanks for the reply Armylifer,

Since I have had so many problems with dirty filters and water. I am getting my diesel from a different place. They sell ag (red) diesel and it is a mix of kerosene and diesel in the winter aka "winter mix". They seem to be more finicky about it, so I am hoping it is cleaner and contains less water.

Never tried Acetone, but I will check it out for sure. I don't mind a little extra work and cost if it's the best for the engine.

Thanks!