Building a fueling station.

[jyoutz]

Auto shut off nozzles are a good thing.

Yes but that still leaves fuel in the hose. A hand crank pump can reverse the flow back into the tank and drain the hose.

 

[RCW]

@William1 - - been watching your thread.

I tend to think a gas station runs at 5GPM +/- (think garden hose flow). Large diesel pumps are likely more.

I doubt you'd want much more than 5GPM?

I feel like I'm living large with a D-cell transfer pump at 2-3gpm.

I also don't use enough diesel to warrant anything more than a 5-gallon can on hand. I got well into this COLD winter with some summer-blend diesel in the tractor....

Be curious to see what you settle on.

 

[William1]

I just ordered a Fill-Rite 8 gpm pump, a Fill-Rite filter manifold (10 micron, hydroscopic) and a few swivels.

I spoke with the actual tech at Fill-Rite, nice guy. He had a few suggestions. He also said he's had a few others like me pick his brains and asked I let him know what my final solution is.

He felt the existing piping OD 'might' be good , but the threads off, so... he suggested:
Maybe cut the pipe (its over 6" long) below the threads and rethread. Simple!
Or... take the included bung adapter (that comes with the pump) and have it welded to the tank.
Or... just get a 1-1/2" joint and have that welded to the tank (1-1/2 plumbing is a 1-1/4" pipe - Gotta love it...)

My simple solution may be to just get a short length of stout 1-1/4" ID hose, a few pipe clamps.

The reason I am doing all this is to lessen the number of trips to fill up and to stop lifting heavy cans up for fueling. I worked hard long ago and I get to enjoy the fruits of my labors.

 

[NCL4701]

Yes but that still leaves fuel in the hose. A hand crank pump can reverse the flow back into the tank and drain the hose.

Auto shut off nozzles are a mechanical system entirely contained in the nozzle. Maybe you can’t use an auto shut off with a mechanical pump, but I don’t know why you couldn’t.

As you pump, you’d just have to pay attention and stop pumping when the nozzle clicks off. Slide the nozzle out a little to get it free of the fuel in the tank, turn it back on to re-open the valve in the nozzle, and reverse the pump to drain the hose.

 

[jyoutz]

Auto shut off nozzles are a mechanical system entirely contained in the nozzle. Maybe you can’t use an auto shut off with a mechanical pump, but I don’t know why you couldn’t.

As you pump, you’d just have to pay attention and stop pumping when the nozzle clicks off. Slide the nozzle out a little to get it free of the fuel in the tank, turn it back on to re-open the valve in the nozzle, and reverse the pump to drain the hose.

Can an electric pump reverse direction? The ones I looked at were one way flow.

 

[NCL4701]

Can an electric pump reverse direction? The ones I looked at were one way flow.

I haven’t seen an electric pump that can reverse flow. I have no idea why you’re asking me about electric pumps. I haven’t said anything about electric pumps. I have said something about auto shutoff nozzles. The function of an auto shutoff nozzle has absolutely zero relation or connection to the pump.

Why are you asking about electric pumps?

Edit: Upon further reflection, maybe we’re not quite in the same page with how an auto shutoff nozzle works. For purposes of this thread, I’m talking about the type nozzles and pumps that would be used on a fuel transfer tank. Pumps and nozzles used at gas stations and truck stops can be much more complex.

This is, IMO, a pretty decent explanation of how an auto shutoff nozzle such as would be found on a fuel transfer tank works. It’s exactly the way the one on my recently acquired transfer tank operates.

The main point is the auto shutoff feature mechanically shuts the valve in the nozzle. It doesn’t do anything to the pump at all.

A simple electric pump on a fuel transfer tank is a centrifugal pump, so if it’s deadheaded against a closed valve for a few seconds, or probably even a few minutes, until the operator can shut the pump off, it’s not a problem for the pump.

I don’t see why an auto shutoff nozzle as described in the video wouldn’t work just as well paired to a mechanical pump as it would paired to an electric pump. With the mechanical pump, the ability to reverse the flow to drain the hose wouldn’t be impacted by whether the nozzle is auto shutoff or not.

 

[JasonW]

What’s the purpose of draining the hose if you have a nozzle on the end? Either regular or auto shut off nozzle.

An auto shut off nozzle might not with a hand pump due to the low flow compared to an electric pump. If I fill mine really slow it will not auto shut off.

 

[NCL4701]

An auto shut off nozzle might not with a hand pump due to the low flow compared to an electric pump. If I fill mine really slow it will not auto shut off.

That makes sense. I don’t know what flow is required to actuate an auto shutoff.

 

[jyoutz]

What’s the purpose of draining the hose if you have a nozzle on the end? Either regular or auto shut off nozzle.

An auto shut off nozzle might not with a hand pump due to the low flow compared to an electric pump. If I fill mine really slow it will not auto shut off.

Even with an auto shut off there will be fuel in the hose. And no doubt it will leak out of the nozzle. This is why I won’t buy a non-reversible pump.

 

[Hugo Habicht]

Even with an auto shut off there will be fuel in the hose. And no doubt it will leak out of the nozzle. This is why I won’t buy a non-reversible pump.

When filling with my hand pump (not reversible) the nozzle runs empty up to the part that is the top of the hose when stopping. I simply hang the hose with the nozzle pointing upwards and put a little plastic cap over it to prevent dirt getting in.

I too do not see the point of having all that electrical equipment (with associated fire risk) and heavy batteries to deal with. But my tractor tank is not very big either, only 18l (about 5 US gal.).

 

[Gaspasser]

I have the 8 gpm GPI pump and tried the fillrite automatic nozzle as I mentioned in previous post. Switched to manual nozzle to make pump happy. Neither nozzle leaked or dripped. I do stop filling and shake it before removing from tractor and hang it on pump bracket which swtches pump off.

 

[JasonW]

Even with an auto shut off there will be fuel in the hose. And no doubt it will leak out of the nozzle. This is why I won’t buy a non-reversible pump.

Yes there will still be fuel in the hose. Thats how every gas station and every transfer tank with an electric pump is set up.
I currently have four transfer tanks with pumps and none leak.

 

[William1]

Yes there will still be fuel in the hose. Thats how every gas station and every transfer tank with an electric pump is set up.
I currently have four transfer tanks with pumps and none leak.

The only thing I think about is dust in the nozzle, say I'm doing wood work in the shop and the sawdust is flying. Current 5 gallon cans are always capped. I'll find a cap (or cork) for the nozzle as well. I'm not worried about leaks at all. Once the pump is shut off, residual back pressure will bleed back tot the tank. The nozzle storage point it a high spot so gravity is working in my favor as well.
The crank pump I have will be relegated to draining machine tanks of fuel when a tank needs to be pulled.

 

[D2Cat]

If this is a major concern "The only thing I think about is dust in the nozzle" simply put one of those rubber feet for a chair over the nozzle end. (Or an upside down beer can!)

 

[JasonW]

If this is a major concern "The only thing I think about is dust in the nozzle" simply put one of those rubber feet for a chair over the nozzle end. (Or an upside down beer can!)

All of mine have a nozzle holder. So I cover the nozzle with a shop rag and put it in the holder.

My dad used a cap on his, until one day he filled the tractor and forgot about the cap. Had to fish it out of the fuel tank.

 

[William1]

I now have the pump (manual nozzle), filter/filter manifold and the 'first concept' which will be minimally invasive.

A 4" nipple in the pump inlet (wish I had access to a lathe!!!) then a length of marine grade heavy duty reinforced fuel line with the threads on the other end ground down to prevent hose damage connecting the nipple to the caddy. I'll butt the end of the nipple right up to the pipe from the tank (minimize flex), then use four banjo clamps to seal and 'hold tight'.

It'll be a week before assembly. So critique me.

 

[JasonW]

I now have the pump (manual nozzle), filter/filter manifold and the 'first concept' which will be minimally invasive.

A 4" nipple in the pump inlet (wish I had access to a lathe!!!) then a length of marine grade heavy duty reinforced fuel line with the threads on the other end ground down to prevent hose damage connecting the nipple to the caddy. I'll butt the end of the nipple right up to the pipe from the tank (minimize flex), then use four banjo clamps to seal and 'hold tight'.

It'll be a week before assembly. So critique me.

Definitely post some pictures. All of my pumps are mounted directly to the fuel tank, with a filter and hose.

 

[Gaspasser]

Looking forward to pics William.

 

[Hugo Habicht]

I now have the pump (manual nozzle), filter/filter manifold and the 'first concept' which will be minimally invasive.

A 4" nipple in the pump inlet (wish I had access to a lathe!!!) ...

Stating the obvious: you need a lathe to do your fueling station, sure thing

And while you are looking for one, I am sure you will find a reason to buy a milling machine too. And a surface grinder. And .... and .... and ....

And you will love to be able to fabricate things straight away instead of wasting endless hours on the internet looking for the right part and then waiting three weeks for the part to circle through the couriers distribution network in an almost endless loop.

 

[William1]

Today I...

Clamped an angle grinder to a bench and put on a sanding disk. Using my best home hands on method, I ground down the threads on one end of the 4" x 1" nipple, tapered as best I could in a true shade tree fashion. I noted the small end is now about the same OD as the fuel caddy pipe. So..... not sure what will happen. Have to wait to get the rubber hose to see if.... the nipple is too wide or the fuel caddy is narrow and figure out what to do. It'll be close1/8" to 3/16". I am hoping it just fits the caddy and I have to really work it to get it on the nipple.