B5100 Start Up question

[miro]

I've had my B5100 for 3 years - has 2200 hrs on the clock.
I only use it sparingly - blowing in the winter when I get up to my country place, and some hauling and road smoothing - altogether 20 hrs or so per year.

Right from the beginning, when I start the engine , it will fire on one cylinder - puts out white smoke, then about 1 minute later, the second cylinder will start firing. No problems starting the engine - I use a block heater in the winter, and a battery minder.

After that, it runs well, and I am frankly surprised how much power that engine has - I've blown 2 ft snow including 3 ft drifts OK. It doesn't use much fuel maybe half a tank for the whole winter's worth of snow blowing.

I've checked the glow plugs for resistance and voltage and they seem to be OK.
Should I try putting an Ammeter in series with each one to make sure they are drawing current?

How do I find out which cylinder isn't working on start up ( or conversely, which one is)

Miro

 

[85Hokie]

I've checked the glow plugs for resistance and voltage and they seem to be OK.
Should I try putting an Ammeter in series with each one to make sure they are drawing current?

Do you own a Infrared Thermometer? About 25 bucks at local lowes, amazon etc.....you can use it to tell which is heating up too

I take it that you use the glow plugs for 20+ seconds even when it is NOT cold......glow plug heat is a must in most cases. Longer the better in the cold.

How do I find out which cylinder isn't working on start up ( or conversely, which one is)

Again the heat being generated will tell you which one is firing. Point the probe at one of the exhaust pipes and it will tell you which is firing.

I bet you have crud in your "bad" injector.......since they are used so little, the fuel and other bad stuff is clogging up the one that is not hitting. If you are not going to use the machine for a while - pull the injectors and have them cleaned by a pro....... be amazed at what it will do then!

AS for fuel - do you have old fuel in the tank too?

 

[Dave_eng]

I agree with Hokie on the checks you should be doing.
You likely have the habit of buying fuel in the summer and using it in the winter. Bad habit.
Summer fuel can gel or thicken into a waxy substance causing all sorts of problems.
Since you use the machine so little at 20 hours a year, do the reverse. Buy your diesel at a big truck stop in the winter and use it all year round. Winter fuel is specially formulated not to gel when it gets cold and is a little more expensive than summer fuel.
Dave M7040

 

[miro]

I know that using summer fuel in winter is a bad idea. I only buy winter fuel and use it throughout the year.

I always way for the glow plug indicator to show, and then wait at 2 - 3 more clicks - winter and summer.

And yes, I have an infrared thermometer which I will apply next time I'm up there ( Great White North)

If I pull the injector that's cold for cleaning, I might as well do the other one too , n'est-ca pas?

Miro

 

[CountryBumkin]

The "cheap man's" test is to do a cylinder drop test.
It's not as easy to do on a 3 cylinder engine - and it depends on how long the engine runs rough as to whether or not you have enough time to do it...

But what you would do is you after you start the engine, you crack open one injector line (put a rag over the line so fuel doesn't squirt everywhere). When you do that, that cylinder won't fire. On a small engine (that's running rough) killing one cylinder might be enough to stall the engine. But you can often open the throttle a little so it will run. When you crack open the injector line you note how much the engine speed drops. For example its running at 1000 rpm and you crack the line and the engine drops to 800 rpm, you record a 200 rpm drop. You do this one at a time for each cylinder. The cylinder that changes the Least (or doesn't drop at all) is the problem cylinder. I.e. if cylinder 1 drops 200, then you tighten injector line 1, and crack open line 2, and cylinder 2 drops 200 rpm, then you tighten that line, and crack open line 3, and if cylinder 3 drops 50 rpm or no drop you know that is the problem cylinder.

This test is used most often on an engine that has a continuous problem like a bad valve or worn cam lobe (not were the engine starts to run good after a minute or two). But it may be able to help you find the problem cylinder (injector, glow plug, sticking valve, etc.) without having to buy any new tools.

 

[Dave_eng]

Miro
Another well informed Canadian, nice to know.
Before pulling a glow plug, use a multi-meter, even a cheap one to do a resistance check on each glow plug.
Remove the wire from the top of the glow plug and connect one lead of the multi-meter to this terminal and the other lead to the block.
Both readings should be the same. Not certain for your engine but likely between .5 and .9 ohms.
Cleaning the glow plug is not useful or effective.
They get so hot at the tip anything on them burns off.
Amazon often has the plugs for reasonable price.
If you did not take the wire off each glow plug to test then you get misleading results. What resistance reading did you get when you measured it. Looking forward to your reply.
Dave M7040

 

[Dave_eng]

Miro
On second thought your following comment needs to be clarified.
If you are checking the glow plug temp before starting the engine, great.
If you are trying to determine which cylinder is not producing power after starting then the exhaust manifold adjacent to the cylinder port is the best place to measure temperature. The injector itself will be cooled by the cold fuel flowing through it and temp measurements can be confusing. In the end if an injector needs cleaning then do both it wont cost much more.
Dave M7040

If I pull the injector that's cold for cleaning, I might as well do the other one too , n'est-ca pas?

Miro[/QUOTE]

 

[miro]

My recollection about the resistance measured on the glow plugs with the plug wire disconnected was higher - about 3-4 Ohms for each. They were pretty well the same.

The B5100 has only 2 cylinders so on start-up it sounds like a 1 cylinder engine until it warms and the second cylinder is firing.

For sure, I will check the temperatures with the infrared non-contact thermometer. But I won't be up there for a couple of weeks .

I keep the block heater on - but I put it on a Variac and reduced the voltage to about 65 V. I also put a blanket over the hood to minimze the air circulation. That seems to keep that little engine warm. I hope the small rodents don't find it and move in , rent-free.
When I get up there I crank it up to 110V for about 1 1/2 hours before trying to start it.

My next step is to find a place that cleans injectors near Bracebridge / Huntsville.

Thanks for the suggestions. I love this Forum.
Miro

 

[Dave_eng]

Miro
Issues to consider concerning block heaters.
I think you will find that the block heater equipped engine will reach a balance point temperature where the energy put in by the heater is equivalent to the heat being lost by the engine to the atmosphere.
My experience on an old Nuffield 465, Kubota M7040 and Pontiac Vibe is that after 3 hours at most, the block has reached the maximum temperature it can respecting the amount of heat loss. Starting the heater more than 3 hours before you want to use the tractor just wastes energy and has the negative effect of providing a warm home for mice and squirrels. Typically even far less time is necessary assuming your block heater is in the 400 watt range.
Many posts on this and other forums express the amount of damage these pest can cause. Having the heater operating continuously in cold weather might make the engine area very inviting.
Here is a picture of my boat which was parked in an open shed one winter ago with a complete cover over it. A racoon decided the enclosure provided lots of privacy to raise a family.

This winter, after the expensive repairs, the boat is in the same shed but with no cover and everything that can be removed taken out so it is just a big open space. No longer is attractive to even a mouse.
Your tarp over the engine and low voltage operating heater will be appealing.

Just some thoughts for you to consider.
How far north of TO is your B5100?

dave m7040

 

[Tooljunkie]

Cant test a glow plug unless its disconnected. They are wired parallel.
Can start tractor with hood open, start tractor and feel exh manifold, first one to warm up is the one firing. I know its old school, but its the simplest method. Hands on.

That little engine doesent need that much block heater time in your neck of the woods. A battery tender during down time should be enough.

Whoa! Dave, thats some nasty damage to the boat. First winter here at the farm i let a combine in for the winter. Coon rode in with combine and refused to leave once i noticed it. So it wandered around until it dehydrated from lack of water -im assuming. Left door open a few times and it didnt choose to go. Fortunately nothing was damaged. Found a freeze dried coon in spring.

 

[D2Cat]

Miro, if you're going to leave the blanket over the hood, get some moth balls and put them on the floor panel of your tractor and wrap some in the blanket. I even take an old sock and pour some both balls in it and tie it anyplace you can find to let it aerate the area.

That odor seems to offend them!!

 

[miro]

I set up a WHEEL OF DEATH type of mouse preventer in the shop where the tractor is stored. I got about 10 critters by early Dec, but nothing after that.
Maybe they figured it was not a good place to hide out and went next door (2 km away) .

I'll see what the results of leaving the block heater on at lower voltage is next time I'm up there. I usually go in on snowshoes ( about 3/4 km)and I want to get at the job of clearing the sneau right away. Waiting for several hours in a -20 C shop is no fun.

miro

 

[CaveCreekRay]

Thanks for that. Now I am gonna have 'coon nightmares! OMG!

We have a variety of desert 'coon here but they are thankfully very rare. In 30+ years I have only seen one. He mighta been a tourist or snowbird 'coon that got lost.

 

[Dave_eng]

Waiting for several hours in a -20 C shop is no fun.

miro[/QUOTE]

Miro
Not certain about your particular model but usually Kubota recommends quite long times sitting at high idle after the tractor starts to warm up the hydraulics.

Dave M7040

 

[miro]

Thanks for the note - I usually let it warm for 5 - 10 minutes in the winter - now I'll let'er run a bit longer -
50% rated RPM - hmmm

Miro

 

[Grouse Feathers]

Miro

I installed one of these on the transmission of my BX to reduce warm up time. With only 50 watts I leave it on all the time and the cost is only about $0.11 per day. It doesn't get the transmission hot and I usually give the engine and transmission 5 minutes of warm-up (the block heater is on for an hour before I start the tractor). I would have put on a bigger heater, but I didn't have a bigger flat spot on the bottom of the transmission.
http://www.amazon.com/Kats-24050-Wa...id=1454715646&sr=8-8&keywords=silicone+heater