B2620 Starting issue

[GSP]

On my 2620 hst The issue started the last time I was blowing snow the charging light came on but everything seemed to work fine, today I went out to start the tractor and it would not start.

when the key is turned to the start position you can hear the fuel relay click and it seems like the safety switches are working intermittently as I can get the relay to click for the hydro pedal and one of the PTO switches one time then the next time it will only click for both pto switches then it will be the hydro pedal only very sporadic

Things I have checked
- battery is good
-tried to bypass all safety switches no different
-attempted to jump solenoid to start but will just spin starter wont engage flywheeel

is there another switch i have missed
2 on seat
2 on pto
1 on hydro pedal

I am leaning on replacing the operator presence controler but want to make sure i didn't miss something before I spend $160 on a part.

Is there a workaround for the controller

Is there a way to get it going so I can use the tractor in the mean time

thanks

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

On my 2620 hst The issue started the last time I was blowing snow the charging light came on but everything seemed to work fine, today I went out to start the tractor and it would not start.

Charging lights coming on is never "everything seamed to work fine", it was telling you something is wrong.

when the key is turned to the start position you can hear the fuel relay click and it seems like the safety switches are working intermittently as I can get the relay to click for the hydro pedal and one of the PTO switches one time then the next time it will only click for both pto switches then it will be the hydro pedal only very sporadic

Things I have checked
- battery is good
How did you determine that? Volt meter or a load test?
While it can show good voltage it can have Low amps.

-attempted to jump solenoid to start but will just spin starter wont engage flywheel

This is a problem , so you took a wire and jumped from the positive on the starter to the solenoid wire (small terminal) and it wont engage the solenoid but it will make the starter spin...Or were you jumping from one side of the starter to the other and bypassing the solenoid (large wire to large wire)?

is there another switch i have missed
2 on seat
2 on pto
1 on hydro pedal

I am leaning on replacing the operator presence controler but want to make sure i didn't miss something before I spend $160 on a part.

Is there a workaround for the controller

Is there a way to get it going so I can use the tractor in the mean time

thanks

Most likely you have fried the alternator and/or battery and one or both needs to be replaced.

 

[bandaidmd]

"when the key is turned to the start position you can hear the fuel relay click"

your fuel turns on when the key is turned to on, not the start position.
I would bet your hearing the starter solenoid trying to engage the starter, but not having the juice to complete its task.
All the info wolfi gave you is right on the money.
Take a volt reading at the battery and then turn on the lights or better have someone try to start while reading the volts i'm betting you have nowhere near the 12.5 that you need..

 

[GSP]

A few things I left out of the original post: it is a 2011 model year with 75hrs. I ended up using the forums suggestions as to starting problems and that is how I ended up on the safety switch hunt thinking it would be something simple.

-bandaidmd

Yup that's what I meant, sometimes my fingers move faster than my mind can "proof" thanks for the clarification though.

-North Idaho Wolfman

Checked the battery using a multimeter 12.8v this morning

I meant everything continued to work as usual by the "everything seamed to work fine" comment only ran it 10-15 min after the light came on and didn't realize it was a true problem until today

the starter was jumped across the lugs

Is it common for battery / alternator issues to start this quick on a pretty new tractor?

I think I will take the battery and alternator into the autoparts store tomorrow to see if they can test them.

Is there anything else that would lead to this problem that I should be on the lookout for.

Thanks for the replies

 

[lsmurphy]

You need to trace back your alt wire. It may be fused at the starter where it is picked up and runs to the battery and to the ignition.

You blew a fuse at the starter......that's my guess.


The wiring on these tractors are simple....barring some of the high end tractors with computers.


Trace your wires.......check your fuses........check your grounds.
Before your run off swapping parts.

Batteries and alts will bench test good and not be good......I dont' trust bench tests.

Also, to answer your question......just cause you think it's 'new' means nothing. Yes, new batteries can go bad.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

On my 2620 hst
-attempted to jump solenoid to start but will just spin starter wont engage flywheeel

I come back to this point, If you jumped the starter the right way it will engage the starter and turn the motor over, and with the key on it should start.

You need to jump the starter from the large lead that comes from the battery to the small lead on the back of the starter, usually will have a single possibly black and yellow wire coming off of it to a blade terminal on the solenoid/starter.

If it still just spins the starter rather than engaging it into the flywheel, then starter/solenoid is toast and needs to be replaced.

And like lsmurphy is saying it's possible that a fuse as blown causing your problems.

 

[skeets]

And while your looking in there look for mice they have a bad habit of chewing wires that go to ground and will give you all kinds of grief

 

[lsmurphy]

And while your looking in there look for mice they have a bad habit of chewing wires that go to ground and will give you all kinds of grief

He has some sort of failure while it was running.....doubt it was mice.


If his alt did go out, causing the charge light to come on, it is possible his alt failed.

What does not make sense is that his battery is dead after running a short period with a failed alt.

He did not mention what he was running at the time.....was he running lights? for how long?


Diesels consume no electric while running, other than his fuel pump, which will not drain a battery in a short period.

At startup he is using glow plugs and the starter......10 to 15 seconds will not kill a good battery. He should be able to start and run for a dozen times before a battery failure.

Something else happened.

I installed a new battery in mine last spring, 7 months ago or so, last month it failed. I tested it with a meter, showed 12+ volts, turned key to start and needle went to 0, attached a 250 jump charger and the starter barely turned. A battery with a dead cell is like a black hole that consumes every bit of energy. I replaced it.
It is possible his battery is gone.
It is possible his alt is gone.
It is possible he has blown a main fuse.

His rectifier/regulator is in the alt.......if it ain't charging......it's gone......replace it.

Jump the starter, get it running, test the alt.....see if it is putting out. If it is......check your fuses.....cables.......if all is good.....replace your battery.

 

[bandaidmd]

"Checked the battery using a multimeter 12.8v this morning"

static testing a battery without a load being applied is really not going to give you any valuable info.

 

[Lil Foot]

static testing a battery without a load being applied is really not going to give you any valuable info.

Agreed! I had a battery that read 13.2V until I put a load tester on it, then it dropped to zero in about .02 milliseconds.

 

[GSP]

Thanks for all the help guys! I went out this morning and "correctly" jumped the starter it started right up ( of course after running the glow plug and leaving the block heater on for awhile.)

The battery again measured 12.8v before starting and 12.6v after, I disconnected the alt and was only getting .7v out of it at idle. Is it safe to assume that the alt has failed? I ran the tractor for a couple hours clearing snow with no lights on (except the charging light) and when done I checked the battery again and it was back up to 12.8v(tractor running), also the tractor would start using the key again so not real sure what happened there but hopefully it will continue to start with the key.

is there a place to acquire a reasonably priced replacement alt for it other than a dealer.

Thanks again for the help.

 

[lsmurphy]

http://www.dbelectrical.com/p-4720-kubota-alternator-16231-64010-16231-64011-16231-64012.aspx


There was another member here who had a model similar to yours that had a fuse near or at the solenoid to the starter that failed......the fuse holder failed.

Check and see if you have a fuse holder in that location.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Way to go GSP!
Yes check the fuse before you replace the alternator, also most auto supply companies can test your alternator and see if it's working before replacing.

I use these guys for replacement Kubota parts, Or EBay.
http://www.goldeneagledirect.com

 

[BSrFab]

If you still have the Dynamo on there then it sounds like you have a bad rectifier (voltage regulator). Just went through this on my B2620. Make sure to check all your safety switches first of course, but if its not charging and the starter won't activate with the key then it is most likely the rectifier.

It not too hard to get to, you can pop the gauge cluster off and swing it to the side without removing the steering wheel after you take the tach drive cable and a couple electrical connectors.

I used an aftermarket rectifier from eBay, $45 shipped.

 

[bandaidmd]

Thanks for all the help guys! I went out this morning and "correctly" jumped the starter it started right up ( of course after running the glow plug and leaving the block heater on for awhile.)

The battery again measured 12.8v before starting and 12.6v after, I disconnected the alt and was only getting .7v out of it at idle. Is it safe to assume that the alt has failed? I ran the tractor for a couple hours clearing snow with no lights on (except the charging light) and when done I checked the battery again and it was back up to 12.8v(tractor running), also the tractor would start using the key again so not real sure what happened there but hopefully it will continue to start with the key.

is there a place to acquire a reasonably priced replacement alt for it other than a dealer.

Thanks again for the help.

don't know where your getting that .7 v figure , with the motor running your looking for 13.6 to 14.7 reading at the battery for nearly any 12 volt system.
There should be 12 volts running to the dynamo if none of the wires have that figure out why before removing/replacing parts.
messicks may have a wire diagram that you could download.

 

[BSrFab]

The dynamo puts out ac voltage, if the meter was on dc then it would show a very low dc voltage if checked straight off the two wires coming out of the dynamo when disconnected. Set your meter to ac and check the two wires ( disconnected), you should have mid 20- low 30vac depending on the rpm.

 

[Wvkubota]

Mine is also doing the very same thing put a new battery in it it ran for an hour got off would not start just the click checked the battery still had a full charge. Could start with the jumping the starter method. All switches check out ok, what does the rectifier mentioned here have to do with the starter engaging from the key? And will replacing that get it to work again. I did not have any discharge or alternator light come on.

It behaves like a bad switch but I can jump them all and it won't start, I did an ohms test and all passed.

Dealer came out it started every time (charged me $390 service charge and new battery)and like I said used it for an hour now will not start again just like before

 

[Kanook]

I have had 2 tractors display the symptom of only a click from the starter solenoid when attempting start. they were both caused by a voltage drop across the various safety switches before the VDC gets to the solenoid. One was a K B1700 and the other a JD. In the case of the JD the voltage getting to the solenoid from a good battery with solid connections was only around 8vdc and was caused by a poor connection on one of the safety switches...re-crimping the connections fixed it....In the case of the K, it was the switch on the clutch that was causing a voltage drop and replacement fixed the click.

If the voltage getting to the start solenoid is low, this could be the issue....BTW ...JD sells a low voltage relay fix to address this problem.

 

[Wvkubota]

So i was able to get it started last night and to check everything. All checked out normal, shut it down and the same behavior.
Tore into the dash and found,next to the rectifier,
a black switch/relay it checks out bad and the wiring
is part of the starting wiring that goes to the
starter solenoid. I need to replace it but don't know
part numbers or a good place to buy one, any ideas?

 

[jnschnit]

disregard this