B2400 fuel gauge and temperature gauge not working

NickAdams

New member

Equipment
B-2400 HSD
Jan 11, 2021
16
4
3
22642
I have a B2400 HSD. Both the fuel gauge and temperature gauge are not working. I bought the tractor used about 15 years ago and the the fuel and temp gauges moved only slightly. While removing the panel to replace the combi switch and hazard relay (lights and hazard lights not working), I decided to look at the gauges by dismantling the panel. In dismantling the panel board (glass, meter cover, and case), I removed the needles attached to the electromagnet portion of the fuel and temperature gauges - I pulled the needle and stem from the associated fuel and temp gauges. I noticed on the underside of the needles there was corrosion on the metal contacts . I believe the electromagnets pull on these metal contacts to move the needles to show the fuel level and temp. I cleaned up the metal contacts by gently scraping the contacts with a small screw driver until shiny. When I put the panel back together (setting the fuel needle on empty and the temp needle on cool) and started the tractor, the temp gauge instantly read overheating and the fuel gauge read full. When I turned the tractor off, temp gauge continued to read overheating and the fuel gauge continued to read full

My guess is that cleaning the needle contacts on both gauges allowed the needles to move - and allow them to max out - so I am inclined to look into the fuel sending unit and the temp sensor. However, it seems unlikely to me that fuel sending unit and the temp sensor would both be bad. And, I am surprised that both needles did not return to the start position.

I would appreciate your thoughts in this matter before I further tear into my tractor.

Thanks
 

North Idaho Wolfman

Moderator
Staff member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
L3450DT-GST, Woods FEL, B7100 HSD, FEL, 60" SB, 743 Bobcat with V2203, and more
Jun 9, 2013
28,792
5,171
113
Sandpoint, ID
Sounds like you have a missing ground connection.
 

NickAdams

New member

Equipment
B-2400 HSD
Jan 11, 2021
16
4
3
22642
Makes sense - I know the grounds for these 2 gauges were linked on the panel board. You would know where this ground is located? Thanks
 

GreensvilleJay

Well-known member

Equipment
BX23-S,57 A-C D-14,58 A-C D-14, 57 A-C D-14,tiller,cults,Millcreek 25G spreader,
Apr 2, 2019
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Greensville,Ontario,Canada
I haven't looked at your tractor's wiring but historically haet and fuel gaugaes were wired as follows..

+ battery -> switch->guage------->sensor---gnd.

If you disconnect the sensor, the gauge will read zero, as no current is flowing
Grounding the gauge terminal that goes to sensor, it's read full scale,probably over full scale.

BTW I KNOW my BX23s is 'old skool' wired as I had the tank out of it last week, removed tha gauge unit and yes.. it's a resistor whose wiper has a float attached to it.

OK, downloaded the WSM from kubotabooks.... and wiring is as I thought WITH the addition of a ground connection at the meter. I'm wondering if that's for a 'dash light' ,always on ?? Chapter 9 has test proceedures for the gauges/wiring/sensors....
 
Last edited:

NickAdams

New member

Equipment
B-2400 HSD
Jan 11, 2021
16
4
3
22642
I do have the WSM however my electrical diagnostic skills leave much to be desired. My original understanding of Wolfman's comment above was that there was a single ground point for both the temp and fuel gauge. I now suspect the schematic just symbolizes that both the fuel and temp sensors are grounded to the block/frame where installed. I also assume that the fuel sensor is attached to /in the tank? And the temp sensor is on the radiator or the block? Once I find/ gain access to the sensors, I can perform the tests.

Info on accessing the fuel gauge? Also I have not found the temp sensor yet but will study on it tomorrow. B2400 has good engine access.

Thank you
 

kubotasam

Well-known member

Equipment
B2410, B7100dt, B7500,Woods BH750,Landpride 2660RFM, Tiller, B2781 Snowblower
Apr 26, 2010
1,200
125
63
Alfred Maine
My B7500 (same instrument panel as yours) when I bought it had an issue with the temp gauge not reading correctly.
It turned out it was the ground connection where the wiring harness connects to the back of the instrument panel. The previous owner had left it out in the weather and moisture had corroded the connection.
 

NickAdams

New member

Equipment
B-2400 HSD
Jan 11, 2021
16
4
3
22642
Thanks - I will check the connections between the plug and the panel and see what I can see. This perhaps explains both the fuel gauge and temp gauge problem. I am still unable to locate the temp sensor but perhaps I don't have to if its the panel connections.


I did disassemble the tractor so I can access the fuel sending unit. I checked the senor ground wire by using a multi meter and established that there is continuity between the negative battery terminal and the sensor ground wire. So I don't think its a ground problem. I disconnected the yellow wire and the ground wire from sensor - the gauge still read full. I touch the ground and yellow wire - still reads full. Confused.

I am now thinking gauge problems - expensive. Also will look for shorts - cheap. I thank everyone for their help and appreciate any thoughts you may have.
 

NickAdams

New member

Equipment
B-2400 HSD
Jan 11, 2021
16
4
3
22642
I did check the connector and plug for corrosion - they look fine. Also verified continuity between the YG wire at the fuel sensor to the plug - fine. Checked the the fuel gauge continuity on the panel between U terminal and IGN; and the U terminal and the GND terminal - both showed continuity. Per WSM, I understand that this is as it should be - ie Not "Infinity". Same testing performed on temp gauge - not Infinity -ok. I remain confused.
 

NickAdams

New member

Equipment
B-2400 HSD
Jan 11, 2021
16
4
3
22642
I pulled the panel from the tractor about an hour ago - no connection to power/tractor. The temp gauge remains maxed out and the fuel gauge reads 1/2 full. Got to be the gauges - right? No power - no readings?
 

NickAdams

New member

Equipment
B-2400 HSD
Jan 11, 2021
16
4
3
22642
I finally solved all my instrument panel issues with the help of this forum and wanted to recap:

1. My initial problem was that the fuel gauge and temp gauge did not move much at all at startup or during use. A secondary problem was that the light and hazards did not work.

2. The repair of the lights and hazards was fairly straight forward. I removed the panel cover. The combi switch and hazard relay is accessible on the left once the panel is removed. The combi switch just pops out of the cover and is easily disconnected from the harness - replacement is simple as well. This fixed the lights but not the hazards. The relay is connected to the same harness. To remove the hazard relay, you turn it parallel with the mount - if you have the replacement hazard relay, you will see how it is "keyed" into the mount. Installed the hazard relay and hazards worked.

3. I hoped to repair the fuel gauge and temp gauges by removing the back cover of the panel and disconnecting the harness. I then removed the glass from the panel which allowed me access to the panel face plate and the needles to the gauges. I then removed the needles from all the gauges (stems came out with the fuel and temp needles). I believe this was my 1st mistake in that the fuel and temp gauges did not reset to no fuel or temp when installed. Worse, both fuel and temp gauges when connected to the harness and powered up, went to above full fuel and above max temp. And, did not move down when disconnected from the harness. I spoke with the dealer and he expressed disbelief that I removed the needles. I believe that you should not remove the needles though more knowledgeable members may disagree - I would defer to them. But it seemed to have caused me great difficulties.

4. I could not test or access the fuel gauge sending unit without removing the entire front cover. Removing the front cover requires the removing the steering wheel. The auto steering wheel removal tool I had required that it be screwed into the wheel - the tool I had would not screw into the tractor steering wheel. The gear pulling tool would not fit around the steering wheel and could not be used. I ended up using a piece of metal across the steering wheel bolt and some clamps. The way I did it took a long, long time. Once the steering wheel is removed, the cover comes out easily giving access to the fuel gauge sending unit. Ultimately, I removed the fuel gauge sending unit and discovered that there was no resistance across the wire connector and the ground - and no movement on the omh meter when the float was moved. Replaced the fuel gauge sending unit. Also replaced the temp sensor which is located on the right rear of the engine block.

5. When I plugged the panel board back in, the fuel gauge and temp gauge still did not work as discussed above. The panel is discontinued and cannot be obtained new. I ordered a salvaged panel - the machine it came from had in excess of 7000 hrs and was in rough shape (discussed in a separate thread). When the salvage panel was plugged into the harness the the fuel and temp gauges worked but the glow plug light stayed on. I was uncomfortable with the salvage panel so I removed the 3 screws holding the fuel gauge to the board, removed the 3 screws holding the temp gauge to the board and the 2 screws holding the hrs meter. All these screws are on the back of the board. By removing these screws, you do not have to remove the fuel and temp needles. I did remove the RMS needle and the 2 screws on the front of the face plate because I wanted to use my existing hr meter. Removed the salvage face plate with the gauges still attached. I installed the salvage face (with gauges) on to my original panel (after removing the defective/broken gauges). The original RMS/hr meter remained on my panel. Attached the all the above screws on to my panel and reinstalled the RMS needle.

6. Miraculously, I plugged the panel (with the salvage face plate and gauges - and everything worked. Also solved my hr meter problem - showing ~1200 hrs v salvage meter ~7200 hrs. Prior to doing all this, dealer said he would not spin the salvage panel hr meter to show the same hrs as my original meter but would try to take my hr meter out and install the unit into the salvage panel.

7. I did not discuss in detail the multi meter testing procedures as they are on various posts on this forum (by people who understand them better than I) and also in the WSM. I used them to verify that the fuel gauge sending unit was defective. When I checked my original panel, the WSM tests showed that my panel board was good not withstanding that the gauges did not work. The panel was good - just the gauges had problems - but this confused me. I did not test the temp sensor.

8. The salvage panel was ~$225 plus shipping, the temp sensor was ~$20 and the Fuel gauge sending unit was ~$90.

I learned a lot and hope this long post might help someone else. Thanks to everyone who helped me on this forum.
 
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