B2400 3 point position control lever does not hold position

[nojgib]

The 3 point lifts and holds as it should, but the lever itself has no friction and falls as soon as released. If you pulled it to say 4 of 1-8 the arms raise and stop at 4. When the lever is released it immediately falls to 1. The arms stay where they were or fall at the rate set by the lowering valve. What holds the lever in position?

 

[lugbolt]

There is a nut on the lever's pivot. The nut generally has a pair of conical nuts on it that holds tension on the lever. With that said, it's very possible that the nut(s) are loose. See if you can find them. Follow the lever down to where it hooks onto it's bracket, and see if the nuts are loose. If they're not loose, see if you can tighten them up & adjust the tension on the lever.

 

[Russell King]

There is a nut on the lever's pivot. The nut generally has a pair of conical nuts on it that holds tension on the lever. With that said, it's very possible that the nut(s) are loose. See if you can find them. Follow the lever down to where it hooks onto it's bracket, and see if the nuts are loose. If they're not loose, see if you can tighten them up & adjust the tension on the lever.

Replace “conical nut” with “conical washers” in second sentence. That is what Lugbolt meant to say.

 

[nojgib]

Thank you for the reply. Problem is on this model there is a c clip (#100) and not a nut. Shaft goes through the cylinder case (#70) to work the control valve. The threaded shaft on the bracket (#140) is for lever to engage 4WD

 

[Russell King]

I guess I would try and remove the lever and see if it fits tight on the shaft. I suspect that the lever has opened up and does not fit tight on the splines.

 

[nojgib]

After going for more photos I gave a bit of misinformation and the 4WD lever is lower and not shown in the schematic.
What I have is slightly different on the side than shown in the schematic and looks identical to the photos in the service manual. The lever itself has a pin that moves the actual adjustment for the position control valve. The lever slides onto a bushing over the lower shaft #120 which is controlled by the feedback lever. All is held by a C clip. The nut that holds the equivalent of #90 is bottomed out on the shoulder of the shaft. A few photos

 

[DaveD]

There are two styles of 3-point lift hydraulic control valves on these models. My B1700 has the new style that is pictured in the parts diagrams. I bought mine new in 1996 and the old style was swapped for the new style then by the dealer. The new style has a control valve that operates more smoothly than the original; you can tell that you have it because the lift will slow down and stop smoothly during the last inch or so of lift. Another way to identify it is by the lift control lever pictured in parts diagram F14000 Position Control Lever, part 50. It will have an upside-down U-shaped tab welded to the lever, as indicated by the arrow in my screen capture.

In that diagram, notice two nuts, parts 85 and 80, and some conical washers, parts 60. I believe those are what lugbolt is referring to. I can't tell for sure from your photos but it looks like your position control lever is different, so is probably the older style. Here is a photo of mine, the newer version. The semi-circle tab captures a cadmium colored peg in the precise middle of the photo which operates the control valve, per part 90 in the J040500 Control Valve parts diagram. Just down and to the right you can see the nuts and conical washers, all compressed. That said, I believe there is more than these conical washers holding the lever and control valve stiffly in place, but I don't know what!

I'm not sure that this will be of any help to you since it appears that you have the old style, but at least you might determine if this is so and go forward from there.

 

[nojgib]

I did come across a S/N change for the cylinder so I would also agree there are 2 styles and what I show would be the older. Any bit of information is helpful and always appreciated.
I don't see much difference in the control valve itself or the cylinder assembly. It looks like the biggest changes are the way the handle lever is attached and how it works the lever #70. #70 has a change in that my shown version that shaft is threaded and the in later version it resembles the lower lever shaft #120 and has opposing flat sides. The cylinder and control valve look like they could be the same with only those couple parts swapped out.
I've been thinking about my problem and i am going to try give a little friction with a plastic washer hopefully tomorrow. I'll take a few photos of things when I have it apart.

 

[lugbolt]

The cylinder and control valve look like they could be the same with only those couple parts swapped out.

Similarly, the old Standard L tractors. The valve body itself is identical between it and the Grand L valve body. However, there are a couple little parts inside that differentiate the Grand L and standard L valve; and those couple minuscule and insignificant parts make all the difference in the world. That's one of several reasons there was a running change on the B series Pos control valve. New style is MUCH smoother than the old. The old, is less of "position control" as it is up and down.

Plastic washer might hold for a while.

 

[kubotafreak]

Sounds like the part 90 with the nut is the only part to apply holding pressure. Nut being bottomed out makes it sound like the two conical washers Lugbolt described are missing. There is supposed to be an adjustable lever stop, that commonly goes missing. I cannot find a good assembly diagram of that configuration. Have you had the lever off? I wonder if there is an oring on the shaft to provide friction.

 

[DaveD]

There is a huge difference in the two position control valves and all parts including linkage have to be matched together. I did extensive research on this sometime back because my hitch tends to fall slowly beyond a certain setting of the lever (see https://www.orangetractortalks.com/...tch-leak-down-when-stopped.52614/#post-478346 ). (I now believe it is a feature, not a problem!) If you don't have a copy of the WSM get it at kubotabooks.com. It contains mechanism information for the old position control valve and linkage starting on page 8-M4 and for the newer "enhanced" version starting on page E8-M4.

Also, if you don't have a copy of the parts manual you can find one at kubotabooks as well. Note the B2400 manual has the new and old position control lever et. al starting on page 77.

That said, I still find no information about how to tighten the older version up so the lever doesn't fall. And an additional look at my new version tells me that the conical washers do indeed provide all the necessary friction to prevent it from moving, as the control lever shaft peg (the cadmium part under the U-shaped actuator in my photo) always has pressure against the operating lever, which is held in place with the conical washers. The old mechanism lists part 60 as a "bush". Perhaps adding conical washers in place of or in addition to to this bush may fix it. But it will be difficult to re-engage the circular clip (part 80) with any spring pressure on that shaft.

The best answer, I believe, is to take the linkage down as far as you can and try to find what would normally keep it in place. But it might be that the old control valve when in the neutral position normally exerts no pressure on the balance arm and the other levers so doesn't normally need any friction to hold it in place, but may now be malfunctioning.

However, after re-reading your first post, I'm not sure whether you are saying that only the lever falls, but the arms stay in position. Note in my thread referenced above that my hitch stays where I set it if at 5 or above, but falls slowly below 4 or below. Does yours act like that?

Edit: Look at your B2400 parts manual, page 104, last parts pics before the parts list by number. It has, for lower serial numbers, parts 80, 90, 100, 105, 110, 140, what appears to be the mounting bracket and a couple conical washers. Chances are this is for your control valve and may be where the problem lies, although it's hard to tell exactly where it is located. I hope this helps.

 

[nojgib]

I thank you all and will try my best to respond to all.

Also, if you don't have a copy of the parts manual you can find one at kubotabooks as well. Note the B2400 manual has the new and old position control lever et. al starting on page 77.

I have the WSM part 1 and 2 but don't have a full copy of the parts manual and will look into that.

That said, I still find no information about how to tighten the older version up so the lever doesn't fall. And an additional look at my new version tells me that the conical washers do indeed provide all the necessary friction to prevent it from moving, as the control lever shaft peg (the cadmium part under the U-shaped actuator in my photo) always has pressure against the operating lever, which is held in place with the conical washers. The old mechanism lists part 60 as a "bush". Perhaps adding conical washers in place of or in addition to to this bush may fix it. But it will be difficult to re-engage the circular clip (part 80) with any spring pressure on that shaft.

Photos following. I'm thinking (without looking at the above referenced materials) that the friction should be on the part with the nut on this version. I added a plastic washer (which I didn't get any photos but simply temporary as proof of concept) to get past the shoulder a bit and apply pressure. The lever stays where I place it now.

However, after re-reading your first post, I'm not sure whether you are saying that only the lever falls, but the arms stay in position. Note in my thread referenced above that my hitch stays where I set it if at 5 or above, but falls slowly below 4 or below. Does yours act like that?

No it didn't matter where the handle was placed like yours. As long as I had the lowering valve closed the arms stay. Not sure what an end of a 30' long / 20ish inch wide average beetle killed Eastern Pine weighs but it lifted and held an end of it overnight without falling. The lever itself though would fall to the lowest setting as soon as released.

Edit: Look at your B2400 parts manual, page 104,

Will get that in the near future for reference.

Sounds like the part 90 with the nut is the only part to apply holding pressure. Nut being bottomed out makes it sound like the two conical washers Lugbolt described are missing. There is supposed to be an adjustable lever stop, that commonly goes missing. I cannot find a good assembly diagram of that configuration. Have you had the lever off? I wonder if there is an oring on the shaft to provide friction.

I did have the lever off and someone before me also so I don't know exactly what should be there. The photos show what I have. I have read about the adjustable lever stop and I do not see one here so this is among the missing also. I also don't see anywhere an oring would be placed other than inside the cylinder case. I do feel though that there is a lot of thread left on the circled shaft and something would be there for friction. I will get a few conical washers and replace the make shift plastic washer in the near future.
I have shown in the photos where I placed the friction.

 

[DaveD]

I'm thinking (without looking at the above referenced materials) that the friction should be on the part with the nut on this version.

Here is a screen capture of your version of the control arm bracket from the B2400 parts manual page 104, and these parts are represented in your photo IMG_8148, but note that the two parts number 080 are missing. Those are the conical (cup) washers that should be keeping the arm control lever (090) from moving. As you suggested, they should be located on this shaft and would be placed under the washer in your photo, between it and the arm control lever. Adding these two washer to this assembly will fix your problem.

No it didn't matter where the handle was placed like yours. As long as I had the lowering valve closed the arms stay.

The lowering valve has nothing to do with movement of the control arm and valve. That the hitch is able to hold a weight when this valve is closed is good in that it signals that the hitch cylinder, piston, and ring are in good shape, but this valve cuts off flow at the input/output of the cylinder, only for fluid exit, so the position of the control arm and valve has no effect.

 

[nojgib]

Here is a screen capture of your version of the control arm bracket from the B2400 parts manual page 104, and these parts are represented in your photo IMG_8148, but note that the two parts number 080 are missing.

Part 105 listed as a collar was also missing but unavailable so I replaced it with a regular washer to keep the nut from bottoming out on the shoulder of the shaft. Installed the 2 spring washers and the lever no longer falls. Thank you all for the help.