Another Thread on M9000 AC

[paugambi]

Hey fellas. We have just taken delivery of a new M9000, this one a 4WD with a shuttle shift. It is a 2003 model with about 2800 hours.

The coolest thing about this tractor is that the AC worked and blew cool, maybe not cold, but cool enough air. The guys we bought it from (auction house that fixes up their machines well before selling) had just replaced a decent amount of parts on it, including but not limited to the compressor...

Well, I was just teaching my sister how to run the tiller, got out, and as soon as I got out, this horrible belt whining noise started. Sounded like the water pump or AC compressor one was seized. Turned it off, popped the hood, turned it back on and looked for the pulley that was causing the noise. Turns out it was the compressor, and when you turned the AC off, the noise stopped and the pulley began to turn again. Tried it one more time and you could tell the slip clutch engaged and it tried to turn it but maybe got a quarter turn before the belt slipped again.

All this to say... we are without AC for today. We're also a little bit miffed that such a thing happened to a tractor we just bought AND it was a brand new part. Not sure if the shop is the one liable for this or if it was just a mistake. I know absolutely nothing about compressors other than what they do, and I would appreciate some direction on what to do next. Can I adjust the skip clutch? Is this probably permanently seized? I'd really appreciate any ideas y'all could give, I don't want to have to buy another compressor... lol. Thank you guys for the help in advance!

 

[GeoHorn]

Sounds like a locked compressor or slipping clutch. The locked compressor could be mechanical…or overserviced with refrigerant…. or the compressor was cycled off/on too-quickly for the pressure to bleed-off…. etc etc. If you turned the AC off and waited several minutes before turning it back on will it operate normally?

 

[paugambi]

Sounds like a locked compressor or slipping clutch. The locked compressor could be mechanical…or overserviced with refrigerant…. or the compressor was cycled off/on too-quickly for the pressure to bleed-off…. etc etc. If you turned the AC off and waited several minutes before turning it back on will it operate normally?

Yes it will. Looks to be operating normally right now.

 

[Russell King]

There should be some warranty on the part if you have any proof of the purchase and the vendor will warrant the part to you or the auction house

 

[paugambi]

There should be some warranty on the part if you have any proof of the purchase and the vendor will warrant the part to you or the auction house

This will be the way we go if we can't fix it ourselves. Hopefully we can!

 

[paugambi]

Although, if not apparent I would like to add that when you turn off the AC, the pulley spins as it should, tractor works fine, and no squeaky noise. So I am thinking that the clutch is working properly, or I guess too tight. Again, not 100% sure what the mechanism is in the compressor itself so I am purely guessing. But it definitely will work as intended while it is cool, and you can turn the AC off and use the tractor normally.

Anyways, thanks for the help so far! Still hopeful.

 

[Tx Jim]

Upon inspection of noise was AC comp. belt or clutch slipping? If belt was slipping I suggest to tighten it a small amount.

 

[paugambi]

Upon inspection of noise was AC comp. belt or clutch slipping? If belt was slipping I suggest to tighten it a small amount.

The belt was slipping, but I checked tension and it was plenty tight... don't think that is the issue today sadly

 

[dvcochran]

My M9 had similar symptoms a few years back. It would work for a time then start squealing. Turn the A/C off for a while, turn it back on and it would work again for a while, sometimes days. The first time it squealed, I did the same as you and checked the belt. But also checked to see if I could turn the compressor by hand, which I could but could feel a 'catch'.
It may not have mattered but in hindsight I wish I had not tried to keep running it (hay on the ground). I ended up finding metal contamination in every other part of the A/C system when I tore it apart.
I was told by my local Kubota mechanic and another A/C mechanic that I trust that any time the compressor is replaced the condenser, dryer, and expansion valve should be replaced, and the evaporator is a crap shoot. It is not that much more work with the exception of the exp. valve and evaporator which are under the roof. If yours comes off as easy as mine that is not too big of a deal either.

 

[Tx Jim]

I wonder why when compressor fails why metal filings can't be removed from AC system with a good flush utilizing correct tools/flushing fluid?

 

[paugambi]

My M9 had similar symptoms a few years back. It would work for a time then start squealing. Turn the A/C off for a while, turn it back on and it would work again for a while, sometimes days. The first time it squealed, I did the same as you and checked the belt. But also checked to see if I could turn the compressor by hand, which I could but could feel a 'catch'.
It may not have mattered but in hindsight I wish I had not tried to keep running it (hay on the ground). I ended up finding metal contamination in every other part of the A/C system when I tore it apart.
I was told by my local Kubota mechanic and another A/C mechanic that I trust that any time the compressor is replaced the condenser, dryer, and expansion valve should be replaced, and the evaporator is a crap shoot. It is not that much more work with the exception of the exp. valve and evaporator which are under the roof. If yours comes off as easy as mine that is not too big of a deal either.

Okie dokie. Well... these guys said they got all of these parts replaced, and they showed us (except for evaporator and expansion valve since it was harder to get to) so that is a shame that it will all have to be replaced again...

Considering I don't know what I am doing very well with this stuff, would you recommend me changing out all these parts myself or will it be a bigger pain in the butt than it's worth? I don't think I have any scales to measure the charge, and I may have a couple gauges to test pressure, but I think that's it. Also would you know of a reputable parts supplier with decent prices or would you go OEM if I am buying them myself? But if it will save a large amount of labor costs, I would be willing to do it this fall/winter.

Also, last question since you have the same AC system as I have presumably... is your AC still working? I've got another M9000, and it's missing one door. The AC was broken when the door was broken off, so I know well enough that they're shoddy at best lol. Don't want to waste money if I am going to be in a similar place next year. I can live without an AC if I'm going to be paying, what, $500 anyways for all the parts to replace?

Thanks a lot for your reply. Appreciate it

 

[dvcochran]

Okie dokie. Well... these guys said they got all of these parts replaced, and they showed us (except for evaporator and expansion valve since it was harder to get to) so that is a shame that it will all have to be replaced again...

Considering I don't know what I am doing very well with this stuff, would you recommend me changing out all these parts myself or will it be a bigger pain in the butt than it's worth? I don't think I have any scales to measure the charge, and I may have a couple gauges to test pressure, but I think that's it. Also would you know of a reputable parts supplier with decent prices or would you go OEM if I am buying them myself? But if it will save a large amount of labor costs, I would be willing to do it this fall/winter.

Also, last question since you have the same AC system as I have presumably... is your AC still working? I've got another M9000, and it's missing one door. The AC was broken when the door was broken off, so I know well enough that they're shoddy at best lol. Don't want to waste money if I am going to be in a similar place next year. I can live without an AC if I'm going to be paying, what, $500 anyways for all the parts to replace?

Thanks a lot for your reply. Appreciate it

***Disclaimer***I am just a guy with a M9000 who has good knowledge of what to do but not the equipment to do it. I can 'tell' you quite a lot but I am smart enough to know a cannot do all the work.
FWIW, I was able to get with a local A/C mechanic who I know and have used. He let me do the physical replacement stuff and he did the flush, evacuation, and refill. That is the Critical part of the job.
If you have never done it, you should not. Headaches on the horizon. It take special knowledge and equipment. Plus you have to purge the system with compressed nitrogen which not everyone has access to.
You will get ROBBED if you by dealer parts.. apairinc.com is where I purchased my parts but I had to use someone who had an account with them. They do not sell to the general public. acpartsguys.com is also a good source.
My system has been working fine for 3 years now. Remember, these are roughly 20 year old tractors so no, I was not over miffed when mine failed. I was more pissed when I learned they have an pretty crappy system overall. Mine only had 85x hours on it but it had set in impound for 7 years (cool story).
Putting a 10" cooling fan and never letting is set at under 1200rpm's makes a huge difference.
I guess it has a lot to do with what part of the world you are in. In TN there is no way I could go without A/C on a cab tractor. The parts alone will cost you over $500. Unless you are paying to have the parts installed is should not cost you another $500.
FWIW, my TN75 A/C system has also been replaced so it is not brand specific.

 

[paugambi]

***Disclaimer***I am just a guy with a M9000 who has good knowledge of what to do but not the equipment to do it. I can 'tell' you quite a lot but I am smart enough to know a cannot do all the work.
FWIW, I was able to get with a local A/C mechanic who I know and have used. He let me do the physical replacement stuff and he did the flush, evacuation, and refill. That is the Critical part of the job.
If you have never done it, you should not. Headaches on the horizon. It take special knowledge and equipment. Plus you have to purge the system with compressed nitrogen which not everyone has access to.
You will get ROBBED if you by dealer parts.. apairinc.com is where I purchased my parts but I had to use someone who had an account with them. They do not sell to the general public. acpartsguys.com is also a good source.
My system has been working fine for 3 years now. Remember, these are roughly 20 year old tractors so no, I was not over miffed when mine failed. I was more pissed when I learned they have an pretty crappy system overall. Mine only had 85x hours on it but it had set in impound for 7 years (cool story).
Putting a 10" cooling fan and never letting is set at under 1200rpm's makes a huge difference.
I guess it has a lot to do with what part of the world you are in. In TN there is no way I could go without A/C on a cab tractor. The parts alone will cost you over $500. Unless you are paying to have the parts installed is should not cost you another $500.
FWIW, my TN75 A/C system has also been replaced so it is not brand specific.

Okay, that sounds good, thanks a lot for your information. Looks like that will be what I am up to maybe this fall. I will find someone who knows mobile AC units well enough to flush it and recharge correctly. Like you say, it's one thing to know what to do, another to do it. haha. One question about the AC components in the roof... do you have to go through the headliner to take off the roof, or are you able to access the screws that hold it on from the top of the roof, like standing on the tractor? I can't find it in the workshop manual and the last person that was in the roof of this one decided to silicone around the screws/bolts so I have no idea if it would be easier to take off the silicone they put on, or if I should/can go through the headliner. Thankfully the part is under warranty so it should mainly just be labor and stuff like the expansion valve which don't cost nearly as much as a compressor.

Also, the story on the impounded tractor does sound interesting... lol. Growing something illegal with it or what? haha

Also, thanks a ton for your information, more experienced and knowledgeable people like you make it way easier to deal with this stuff.

 

[Fordtech86]

I would recommend at the least to have it properly diagnosed before blindly throwing parts at. Even more so given you state this is a failure after its been repaired once already. Not sure of your area. Maybe check with a tractor or auto repair facility in the area. Not all auto places will take in a tractor, but it wouldn’t hurt to ask. I don’t know tractor shop rates, but a proper diagnosis fee would be worth it. At auto dealer I work at it would cost $129 plus tax. Minor compared to the price of replacing parts that may or may not have failed after they were recently replaced.

After having it diagnosed you could make a decision on how to have it repaired.

 

[paugambi]

I would recommend at the least to have it properly diagnosed before blindly throwing parts at. Even more so given you state this is a failure after its been repaired once already. Not sure of your area. Maybe check with a tractor or auto repair facility in the area. Not all auto places will take in a tractor, but it wouldn’t hurt to ask. I don’t know tractor shop rates, but a proper diagnosis fee would be worth it. At auto dealer I work at it would cost $129 plus tax. Minor compared to the price of replacing parts that may or may not have failed after they were recently replaced.

After having it diagnosed you could make a decision on how to have it repaired.

That is looking like my next course of action... once I find somebody to help me with it, they'll know way better than I do what is going on. Hopefully I'll find someone good but affordable!

 

[dvcochran]

Okay, that sounds good, thanks a lot for your information. Looks like that will be what I am up to maybe this fall. I will find someone who knows mobile AC units well enough to flush it and recharge correctly. Like you say, it's one thing to know what to do, another to do it. haha. One question about the AC components in the roof... do you have to go through the headliner to take off the roof, or are you able to access the screws that hold it on from the top of the roof, like standing on the tractor? I can't find it in the workshop manual and the last person that was in the roof of this one decided to silicone around the screws/bolts so I have no idea if it would be easier to take off the silicone they put on, or if I should/can go through the headliner. Thankfully the part is under warranty so it should mainly just be labor and stuff like the expansion valve which don't cost nearly as much as a compressor.

Also, the story on the impounded tractor does sound interesting... lol. Growing something illegal with it or what? haha

Also, thanks a ton for your information, more experienced and knowledgeable people like you make it way easier to deal with this stuff.

The bolts for the roof are on the inside of the cab. Every other bolt is long (approx. 3-3-1/2") and they hold the roof on. Short ones hold the headliner on. There are several other items to deal with to remove the headliner (vents, radio, temp controls, etc...) so it should be much easier to remove the roof.
Are you saying there are several bolts missing around the perimeter of the headliner and the roof is caulked in place? That could be a real PITA and should be resolved. There should be a foam gasket on the bolt line to seal out dust. When you get ready to put it back on take the time to insulate the inside of the roof very good. It will make a difference.
Definitely before I started buying parts I would have the system diagnosed. Even if you only need a charge I strongly suggest you look into adding a condenser fan. Run the power through a relay and cycle it from the compressor ON wire at the clutch.

 

[paugambi]

The bolts for the roof are on the inside of the cab. Every other bolt is long (approx. 3-3-1/2") and they hold the roof on. Short ones hold the headliner on. There are several other items to deal with to remove the headliner (vents, radio, temp controls, etc...) so it should be much easier to remove the roof.
Are you saying there are several bolts missing around the perimeter of the headliner and the roof is caulked in place? That could be a real PITA and should be resolved. There should be a foam gasket on the bolt line to seal out dust. When you get ready to put it back on take the time to insulate the inside of the roof very good. It will make a difference.
Definitely before I started buying parts I would have the system diagnosed. Even if you only need a charge I strongly suggest you look into adding a condenser fan. Run the power through a relay and cycle it from the compressor ON wire at the clutch.

I will definitely do that. I will get someone who knows what they're doing, and see what they say. After they get that done, I will make sure to get the condenser clean as I can, and then add a fan in. I've even seen some people that removed the battery, and put another condenser where the battery was, although that sounds more like a PITA than it's worth.

Looks like the bolts on the roof of the cab are just siliconed so water wouldn't seep past them... not caulked in place thankfully. But it'll still be a pain getting it all removed lol. But, I'll get er done and may report back if I remember to just in case it helps somebody out.

Thanks a lot for the help! Appreciate you

 

[dvcochran]

I will definitely do that. I will get someone who knows what they're doing, and see what they say. After they get that done, I will make sure to get the condenser clean as I can, and then add a fan in. I've even seen some people that removed the battery, and put another condenser where the battery was, although that sounds more like a PITA than it's worth.

Looks like the bolts on the roof of the cab are just siliconed so water wouldn't seep past them... not caulked in place thankfully. But it'll still be a pain getting it all removed lol. But, I'll get er done and may report back if I remember to just in case it helps somebody out.

Thanks a lot for the help! Appreciate you

The water penetration does not make sense to me. The roof is made such that the bolts to not protrude through the outer layer. I wonders if the seal in there and if the roof is firmly attached if water is penetrating the cab.
I did look into getting a custom condenser built but after I got everything repaired and the condenser fan I was satisfied with the system. FWIW, I do not have tinted windows but I hear they make a big difference.