Adjust L3710 Timing Without Kubota Tool?

[Mr Haney]

I have a guy who is trying to fix my L3710, which has a hole in the front gear case. He says this is a common problem because Kubota put the steering cylinder in the wrong place. They break and go through gear cases.

He says he has a problem. To adjust the injection timing, he believes he needs a special Kubota tool.

Can anyone here shed light on this? Often, there are workarounds for proprietary tools.

He thinks the dealership will try to nail me for several thousand dollars if I can't get an independent repairman who can fix it.

 

[PoTreeBoy]

I don't think you need any special tools. But there is a procedure to follow in the WSM. Hopefully, some one here has a WSM for your machine and can post that page.

 

[mikester]

Your steering broke your gear case and it requires adjusting your timing? Does he sell headlight fluid by chance?

 

[whitetiger]

Can anyone here shed light on this?

Get your tractor away from him as he has no clue what he is doing.

 

[RBsingl]

Your steering broke your gear case and it requires adjusting your timing? Does he sell headlight fluid by chance?

Unfortunately, headlight fluid is on indefinite backorder due to supply chain issues but the good news is muffler bearings, both sealed and greaseable, are back in stock for immediate installation.

Of course the new muffler bearings will require a proper break-in period along with an engine coolant and battery change all available at a special limited time offer discounted package price...

 

[Mr Haney]

The timing is involved because when you take the gear case off, a lot of injector stuff comes off with it.

He is not a Kubota expert. He works mainly on larger stuff from Caterpillar. Showed up in a 28,000-pound Dodge 3500 with a crane and a Miller Bobcat on it, so either he knows a few things or he puts on a first-rate act. He is trying to connect me with a buddy of his who specializes in small machines.

I have a PDF of the manual, and I sent him what appear to be the relevant pages. I didn't even know diesel tractors had anything called timing until today, so I don't know a lot, but the manual seems to indicate that the factory put a bunch of shims on the injector pump or whatever, and that you just have to make sure you use the same ones when you reinstall it.

 

[PoTreeBoy]

i thought this was a 2 part thing, I've never done it
1. Time idler, valve cam and fuel cam via timing marks
2. Since gear case has been changed, perform spillover procedure to fine tune fuel timing via shims. Maybe if you're using the same injector pump and shims this isn't necessary, but I thought it was.

 

[whitetiger]

I have a guy who is trying to fix my L3710, which has a hole in the front gear case. He says this is a common problem because Kubota put the steering cylinder in the wrong place. They break and go through gear cases.
That is pure BS, the front cover gets broken by the person trying to install the cylinder.


He says he has a problem. To adjust the injection timing, he believes he needs a special Kubota tool.
Where did he get the idea that he needs a special tool? You would think such an authority on how wrong Kubota built the tractor would know whether a special timing tool is needed.

Can anyone here shed light on this? Often, there are workarounds for proprietary tools.

He thinks the dealership will try to nail me for several thousand dollars if I can't get an independent repairman who can fix it.
Sounds like someone that is desperate for work.

 

[whitetiger]

Showed up in a 28,000-pound Dodge 3500 with a crane and a Miller Bobcat on it, so either he knows a few things or he puts on a first-rate act.

I would question that weight as the 3500 cab and chassis maximum payload is around 8,000 lbs.

 

[Mr Haney]

We are getting off on tangents and uninformed comments. I just need to know how to adjust the timing, so if anyone actually knows, it would be great to get the answer.

As for the rest:

1. The Kubota cylinder is in the wrong place, because other makers put theirs outside the frame where they can't puncture the gear case AND they can be serviced without taking the tractor apart. The simple way works just fine, so Kubota's design is a bad idea. Even when the cylinder is installed by the factory, it can break and puncture the gear case.

2. I didn't plan to get into a discussion about trucks, but he has a Miller Bobcat and a big crane with a hydraulic pump on his, along with a tremendous number of tools and a specialized bed with cabinets built into it. Before someone pipes up and says their Tacoma has a Harbor Freight crane, this is a serious articulated crane that lifts tractors off the ground, it would be over 20 feet long extended, and the pump probably weighs over 700 pounds by itself. GWVR figures for Dodge 3500 trucks go up to 23,000 pounds for at least one model year, and for all I know, the one he has has a higher rating or he has modified it. Or he's just exceeding the rating. As for the 8000-pound payload of the lighter truck mentioned, even that truck probably weighs 10,000 empty. My 2500 weighs well over 3 tons empty, and it's much lighter.

3. I already made it clear that he says this tractor is out of his usual line of work, so why would anyone say he holds himself out as a Kubota authority?

If anyone knows about the timing, please say something.

 

[lugbolt]

Not sure what timing you're referring to. Injection timing or gear timing?

The gears all have timing marks on them. That's really easy.

The injection pump timing is set by (A) timing of the gears behind the gearcase), and (B) the shim stack under the injection pump. The pump is mounted on the block not the gearcase cover. There's a couple springs (or one spring? I don't remember!) that may be attached to the gearcase cover but that's the extent of the "injection in the cover". The governor runs a fork and the fork actuates the springs which are attached to a sliding lever, which controls the injection pump rack. TO remove the cover, pull the bolts out, pull the cover back a little and then just disconnect the springs. Easy. On some models there is a speed control plate on the top of the cover that can be removed via 4 bolts or nuts, then the spring(s) can be disconnected from the control lever. I mean, if this guy can't do it, you might consider finding someone who can? Caterpillar techs that haven't dealt with Kubota often do this kind of thing. And, those who have actually dealt with Kubota L3710's know that the steering cylinder isn't known in that way to damage things, if this actually happened, it tells me that there was more going on for a long time prior, e.g., very loose steering. That points to lack of maintenance and lack of routine inspection, of which is why I always recommend an annual cleaning and inspection of equipment. Annual at the minimum depending on how many hours are put on it. Is there not a kubota tech that can do this?

Yes I've dealt with these types before. I used to work with one, guy thought he knew everything til he started working on Kubota and even then still thought he knew everything and screwed up more equipment than he fixed! He was a Cat certified field service tech. Same for the Harley know-it-alls. They might be good on a Hardley Davidson but don't let 'em work on a Kawasaki!! And finally I'm going through it too....I was (and still am) a certified Yamaha and Kawasaki tech, changed jobs and working on Polaris stuff....again...completely utterly different. I thought I was "good". You think you are until you have to learn something new...

 

[lugbolt]

Of course the new muffler bearings will require a proper break-in period

I had a customer once tell me that his muffler bearings were bad, M9540HDC. I laughed and asked him why he thought that. He pulled me outside where his tractor was, pulled the intake tube off of the turbocharger, and inside lie the remains of a mangled compressor wheel. He was right. The rotary muffler bearings were SHOT!

 

[RBsingl]

I had a customer once tell me that his muffler bearings were bad, M9540HDC. I laughed and asked him why he thought that. He pulled me outside where his tractor was, pulled the intake tube off of the turbocharger, and inside lie the remains of a mangled compressor wheel. He was right. The rotary muffler bearings were SHOT!

Did you charge him extra because you had to purchase a left handed monkey wrench to remove the old reverse thread muffler bearings?

 

[lugbolt]

Did you charge him extra because you had to purchase a left handed monkey wrench to remove the old reverse thread muffler bearings?

LOL!

 

[Mr Haney]

Not sure what timing you're referring to. Injection timing or gear timing?

The gears all have timing marks on them. That's really easy.

The injection pump timing is set by (A) timing of the gears behind the gearcase), and (B) the shim stack under the injection pump. The pump is mounted on the block not the gearcase cover. There's a couple springs (or one spring? I don't remember!) that may be attached to the gearcase cover but that's the extent of the "injection in the cover". The governor runs a fork and the fork actuates the springs which are attached to a sliding lever, which controls the injection pump rack. TO remove the cover, pull the bolts out, pull the cover back a little and then just disconnect the springs. Easy. On some models there is a speed control plate on the top of the cover that can be removed via 4 bolts or nuts, then the spring(s) can be disconnected from the control lever. I mean, if this guy can't do it, you might consider finding someone who can?

This is really helpful. I appreciate it.

He looked at the exploded diagrams and took a part off the gear case and decided he was not familiar enough with the machine to risk screwing up the INJECTION timing.

Again, this mechanic does not hold himself out to be a Kubota expert. This is why he decided to see if he could hand it off to a friend who works on Kubotas. We are still waiting to hear from the friend.

Are you saying I can just take the parts off and the put the same shims back in place when I reinstall it? That sounds like something even I can do.

I was hoping I could do everything but the injection timing and leave that for the dealer or whoever, but the mechanic says the dealer is not likely to be willing to fix the timing without ripping everything else apart to make sure there are no other problems and also generate a hefty bill.

The hole the steering made was my fault, and I wrote about it in another post. Nonetheless, other makers put their cylinders in places where they are much easier to work on and unlikely to damage anything. My little John Deere 430 is a horror machine in many respects, but the steering cylinder is right out there where it pops off quickly.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

NO timing changes by simply changing the front cover.
If he pulled the injection pump, all it needs is the same parts put back in and it will be in time.

 

[Mr Haney]

NO timing changes by simply changing the front cover.
If he pulled the injection pump, all it needs is the same parts put back in and it will be in time.

Thanks for the help.

I'm starting to feel like I should just do it myself and see what happens. What is the catastrophic problem I risk if the timing is wrong? It sounds like the tractor would just run badly and need to have the shims adjusted. I assume the block won't blow up.

I'm concerned about the difficulty of getting old gaskets off. The one on the used gear case cover I bought was petrified.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

You CAN NOT change the timing by removing the pump or front cover.
You would need to remove gears or leave the sims out to change the timing.
Simply taking it apart will not change the timing.