Mysterious coolant leak, TG1860G

orangekuby

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TG1860G, BX2200
Aug 9, 2019
86
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Started it up, and about a cup of coolant poured out from the front of the muffler. I'm completely at a loss as to where it came from. The only wet spots I found were directly underneath the muffler, and looking with a mirror I can't see any holes in the muffler that would suggest a head gasket leak, nor any obvious drips or wet spots (there are preexisting oil spots). After a couple minutes it seemed to stop dripping. This is the first subzero day, but we've had some single digits before.

Any suggestions on where to look are appreciated.
 

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Mak65

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L2501 HST
Apr 25, 2019
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Are you sure it was coolant (color and/or smell)? Could be water from condensation in the muffler from the last time it was ran. When you started up it blew the water out. Stopped dripping after it either ran out of water or muffler heated up and vaporized any remaining water.
 

orangekuby

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TG1860G, BX2200
Aug 9, 2019
86
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It was definitely coolant. I just changed it this fall and it was bright green, same as the jug of extra mixed coolant sitting next to it on the garage floor.

You bring up a good point though. It could have been coolant that leaked sometime between last time I used it and now. It wasn't necessarily from this time, I just happen to notice it this time.
 
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propuckstopper

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GR2010, BX2380
Jan 10, 2018
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Started it up, and about a cup of coolant poured out from the front of the muffler. I'm completely at a loss as to where it came from. The only wet spots I found were directly underneath the muffler, and looking with a mirror I can't see any holes in the muffler that would suggest a head gasket leak, nor any obvious drips or wet spots (there are preexisting oil spots). After a couple minutes it seemed to stop dripping. This is the first subzero day, but we've had some single digits before.

Any suggestions on where to look are appreciated.
Are you sure it is not a head gasket?
 

GeoHorn

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Be certain to check for foam/water in your oil if its a head gasket.

Open the radiator cap while its running and see if you see bubbles in the coolant from a head gasket leak.

Its possible that a cracked block or head might do this, despite the recent coolant change. Perhaps the crack occurred before the change. Hope not.
 
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D2Cat

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L305DT, B7100HST, TG1860, TG1860D, L4240
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You may be able to go to your local auto parts store and rent/borrow a radiator tester. They usually require you to put some money down or a CC and when you return the item you get it all back.

You connect the tested to the radiator where the cap is, pump to pressure rated on the cap and see how the pressure holds. Be aware, as mentioned, of water/antifreeze level, oil level, and look for any changes. But pressure should hold on your tester.
 

JeffL

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B7200E, B4200DT
Jan 8, 2016
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It is not unusual for an older engine to leak fluids in very cold temps. Combination of shrink due to temp and aging of the seals/gaskets, and hoses. I would re-tighten all the hose clamps when cold and look for source at next start up. Look very close and use mirrors to look under and around.
Also, I got the impression the coolant may have come out of the exhaust itself. If so the a head gasket may be suffering the same issue, again not unusual. However, a bigger issue as you may hydro lock the engine one very cold morning. A re-torque of the head bolts will post pone the inevitable head gasket replacement till warmer times.
 

orangekuby

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TG1860G, BX2200
Aug 9, 2019
86
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United States
I think I found a possible source of the leak. My theory is the radiator hose at the top started leaking on a cold night, ran down the hose which angles towards the front/muffler, and then pooled underneath the muffler due to a small lip on the underside panel. When I started the engine it vibrated some of the pooled coolant onto the floor, where I then saw it. The hose had vague lines where coolant may have died, and remnants of coolant on the underside muffler panel that ran from top to bottom.

The oil looked like normal oil, not grey or milky like one would expect from mixed oil/coolant. I did have to fill the radiator with about a liter of coolant, so I'll keep an eye on the level.
 

orangekuby

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TG1860G, BX2200
Aug 9, 2019
86
10
8
United States
So my theory was wrong. It's not the radiator hose. I started it this morning and the same amount of coolant leaked out, and again only for a short time before it stopped. It's coming from somewhere near the water pump, although the bottom side of the pump and hose fitting are completely dry (used a mirror).

Any ideas from here? I'd like to tear it down, but I need the snowblower until winter is done. I'm still don't think it's a head gasket since the heads are on the outside, they're completely dry, it leaks from somewhere far from them, and the oil is fine.

The part baffling me is the temporary leak, as if it's draining down somewhere and then getting purged on start. But why doesn't it keep leaking?

Edit: second picture is the pump, and closest to the "source" I could find traces of water.

Edit 2: I think I found the source. The hardest to reach water pump bolt is dripping with coolant. I can't tell if it's a crack in the pump housing, or the gasket, but it's something on the block/water pump side leaking. As long as it continues to leak only a small amount on start, I'll wait until warmer weather to fix it.
 

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RCW

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I'm reaching way back to my efforts keeping junk cars running....

Often water pumps would have a bearing/seal go bad on the shaft that also drives the fan??? Would leak at the pully/fan shaft and run down...maybe that's the drip you see off the bottom mounting bolt??

I'm not sure my experience can be translated to a TG tractor, as it looks to be gear-driven. But if I'm close, you're looking at a new water pump.

Just guessing, but hope it helps. I would keep an eye on the Temperature Gauge, if it has one. If the bearing were to lock up, it may stop the pump and fan altogether, and it could overheat.

Try looking at a parts diagram to see if it's possible on your tractor:

https://apps.kubotausa.com/illustrated-parts/

Agree to the legal, then put in your TG1860G model number. I think the diagram you want is under the "Engine" section, and titled "Radiator/Fan"
 
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D2Cat

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RCW has you going the right direction. You'll most likely find a weep hole on the water pump where the fluid is coming from.
 

orangekuby

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TG1860G, BX2200
Aug 9, 2019
86
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For future reference of anyone having this problem, the weep hole is in the attached picture at about the 12:30 position from the impeller. The bolt to the left of it is in my other picture with the red arrow.

I decided to replace the pump sooner than later since the gear side of the water pump (drive side) goes into the crankcase/oil. I'd rather not have the seal fail completely while using it and take out the engine via contaminated oil.
 

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orangekuby

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TG1860G, BX2200
Aug 9, 2019
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Small update, it seems like this water pump style uses o-rings. It could be possible to disassemble it and replace the seals, instead of buying a new pump. I bought a new pump, but may rebuild my old one as a spare. The gear and pump impeller are also made of plastic, just something to be aware of.
 

D2Cat

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Well, the original camshaft was not metal in that engine either! They often gave up at 700-800 HRS.

Another thought to file away. Kubota does not have the camshaft any longer. NLA. However, you can get the engine number and go to a Kawasaki dealer and get ALL the engine parts.
 

orangekuby

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TG1860G, BX2200
Aug 9, 2019
86
10
8
United States
I recently learned about those plastic camshaft gears. Seems like a lot of Kubota and JD machines that also used the kawasaki FD590V (and related engine models) had the camshaft gear teeth break. They eventually went to metal on later designs, but I'm not sure when. My Internet searches say somewhere around 1999, or after the -CS03 revisions. I have an FD590V-CS08, and when I replaced the water pump I took a look at the cam gear, it looked like the metal design and I have a 98 so I'm not sure what to believe.
 

lugbolt

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water pump.

for those who have this issue or similar issue, you have to remove the engine. Leave the coolant in it, pull the motor, put it on the bench with the crankshaft facing downwards, I like to use a couple 5x5 blocks to hold the motor up yet still be able to see the bottom. Wipe it off the best you can. Then grab your cooling sytsem pressure test kit and pressurize the radiator to about 15 psi. Your leak will show up; wherever it is. As said, usually water pump if it's leaking up by the muffler area. If you have to replace it, replace the whole thing. The new style pump has different seals and is built better overall. It is not obvious by looking at it but Kawasaki DID update it. When you have the old one out look at the gear, if the gear is damaged in any way, pull the pan and inspect the cam gear. It, too, is plastic and the other posters have already addressed that. Replace it with a metal one; also replace the crank spur gear. They have to be replaced as a set because the plastic cam spur gear and the metal spur gear are cut a little differently and they will whine LOUDLY if they are not replaced together (I found this out the hard way). Also you will get metal filings in the oil unless both are replaced at the same time. Replacing the spur gear means removing the crankshaft unless you have a puller that will do it while in the engine, and while you "can" remove the crank without removing the heads, it's a LOT easier (less frustrating) to just pull the heads and replace both head gaskets and intake gaskets too, since those, too, have been updated. Once the repairs are made, DO NOT refill it with that pink garbage coolant use green stuff only 50/50 mix.
 

orangekuby

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Equipment
TG1860G, BX2200
Aug 9, 2019
86
10
8
United States
water pump.

for those who have this issue or similar issue, you have to remove the engine.
This is incorrect if replacing the water pump only. I know because I just did it. You will need to take off the 4 nuts holding the engine to the frame, and lift the front of the engine an inch or two, but the whole engine does not need to be removed.

The weep hole leak is pretty obvious once you see it either with a mirror, or by just following the water trail. If the gaskets are leaking, then it's no different than replacing the water pump. The pump will need to come off anyway.

If replacing the rest of the stuff mentioned like cam gear, then yes, removing the engine is the best option.