A bit of a long rant. They don't build pickup trucks like they use toooooo.

[McMXi]

So no, it is not a psychological thing, vehicles do not reach the life time any more as they used to in the early 90s.

I guess my 24 year old truck that I drive almost every day that has CR fuel injection, HEUI, OBDII, an ECU etc is my imaginative friend.

The real problem is that some people want their idea of reality to be everyone else's idea too. It's also the desperate need to feel that they made the best choice or decision. There's a fear of getting it wrong.

 

[Hugo Habicht]

I guess my 24 year old truck that I drive almost every day that has CR fuel injection, HEUI, OBDII, an ECU etc is my imaginative friend.

The real problem is that some people want their idea of reality to be everyone else's idea too.

Hey, if you like a vehicle that blears and blinks, fine enjoy it. But longevity is history. Carl-Friedrich Gauß normal distribution still allows for some cars to last longer, so a single vehicle has no statistical significance.

Here is another real world example on my work bench today: Mercedes R230 SL500 headlights (friends car, would not want a present of it and will not do repair jobs like this any more). Insulation of the lamp wires crumbling to bits. You want to see the wire loom of my Mercedes three times the age of this SL500?

 

[Blue2Orange]

Regarding rust and age. Really depends on the make and model year. '91 Honda Accord and then the car that replaced it. '01 Chevy Prism (aka Toyota Corolla). Showed no body rust. I see wheel well cancer on all makes and models of older pickups up here. Pretty even split among GM, Ford, and Ram owners. But maybe just a biased feeling v. actual. More GMs with rust. I like the idea of Ford using more aluminum. Steel or Al, either way body dings are going to be costly.

Couple days ago had a dental appointment in town. Came out and parked a few slots away was a nice truck. Restored. Guessing modified and without a box. The storage boxes under the flat bed are a practical option.

 

[Russell King]

@Hugo Habicht

My wife owned a Volkswagen Passat (2000 model?) that had that same problem on the headlight wires to the bulb. I always assumed it was the heat from the halogen bulbs but the wire seemed undersized also.

I hated changing those bulbs because there was no room for hands to get to the removable holder and then the wires were so short you had to try and install the bulb in that same cramped area (without touching the glass part). Then try to wrap electrical tape around the small wire that had no insulation left on it.

 

[D2Cat]

@Hugo Habicht

My wife owned a Volkswagen Passat (2000 model?) that had that same problem on the headlight wires to the bulb. I always assumed it was the heat from the halogen bulbs but the wire seemed undersized also.

I hated changing those bulbs because there was no room for hands to get to the removable holder and then the wires were so short you had to try and install the bulb in that same cramped area (without touching the glass part). Then try to wrap electrical tape around the small wire that had no insulation left on it.

There seem to be a lot of repairs these days requiring being a contortionist monkey with small hands!

 

[Hugo Habicht]

@Hugo Habicht

My wife owned a Volkswagen Passat (2000 model?) that had that same problem on the headlight wires to the bulb. I always assumed it was the heat from the halogen bulbs but the wire seemed undersized also.

Hello Russell,

interesting, I never knew that other manufacturers also used this inferior insulation material, I always thought it was Mercedes only.

Heat would speed up the deteriation process but would not be the main reason. Life span of a car is roughly 2000 to 3000 hours, the time the light is on would be a fraction of that.

In any case, just one nice example how useful vehicle life is being reduced by the manufacturer.

Kind regards,

 

[Hugo Habicht]

There seem to be a lot of repairs these days requiring being a contortionist monkey with small hands!

On one Volkswagen Polo you have to take the inner wheel arch cover off to replace the bulb.

And on the Mercedes R230 above you have to take the bumper off (huge part) and loosen both front wings to get the lights out. I think this is called progress. No surprise repair costs are spiralling out of control, bringing more cars to the scrap heap prematurely.

 

[SDT]

Vehicles were rusting to bits in the 50s and 60s in 10 years when they started to make cars without frames (before that cars had almost infinite life expectancy, they could always be repaired). They learned from their mistakes and begin of the 90s cars were good and lasted 20 to 30 years without major corrosion problems in Europe (Audi with zinc plating for example). Mercedes started giving 30 years warranty on corrosion.

Also manufacturing tolerances had improved significantly so there were engines that lasted 1000000km without repairs (Mercedes OM616 and OM601/2/3). So the motor car had reached a pinnacle in longevity and reliability.

Then electrical systems took more and more hold in the automotive industry and reliability went down quickly. Also design changed that the mechanics only lasted the design specification but not a km longer. When testing the components they are made weaker if they last significantly past design specification.

Despite corrosion problems being solved, the car electronics now limits the useful life to about 15 to 20 years. Spare parts will not be available (or are prohibitively expensive) in the future because the silicon manufacturers guarantee only about 10 to 12 years availability.


So no, it is not a psychological thing, vehicles do not reach the life time any more as they used to in the early 90s.


But let's face it, the majority of the population wants a new car every three years, so long lasting vehicles are not desired.

"Despite corrosion problems being solved, the car electronics now limits the useful life to about 15 to 20 years. Spare parts will not be available (or are prohibitively expensive) in the future because the silicon manufacturers guarantee only about 10 to 12 years availability."

Largely true but the useful lifetime of vehicles built in the 50s, 60s, was about 10 years, despite being built having more robust structure because it simply became no longer cost effective to repair such vechicles as values declined due to rust, etc. Accordingly, most 50s and 60s vehicles ended up in junk yards after 10-12 years despite the lack of complicated electronics.

 

[Hugo Habicht]

Largely true but the useful lifetime of vehicles built in the 50s, 60s, was about 10 years, despite being built having more robust structure because it simply became no longer cost effective to repair such vechicles as values declined due to rust, etc. Accordingly, most 50s and 60s vehicles ended up in junk yards after 10-12 years despite the lack of complicated electronics.

I always thought that the old designs with the frames were almost indestructible. I know that a lot of pre-war cars were still running in England at that time and only introduction of car testing took them off the road. Thank you for pointing that out.

Does not change my argument, really. Longevity went up, reached a maximum in the early nineties and is going down (slowly) since. I've seen a good few cars going to the scrap yard due to electronics problems only.

 

[jimh406]

There are still old cars with good frames. That seems to have more to do with what was put on the road than the frame.

I agree that the coatings are mostly better although OEMs occasionally miss a spot.

 

[Blue2Orange]

Snow season is salt and sand season up here. Lots of salt and sand deposited on paved roads and gravel roads. My graphite colored truck looks dusty white until washed if you drive after a snow day.

Rusty patina has replaced the factory installed undercoating. IIRC, it looked and felt like a dull dark grey mat textured and softer material. Almost like a coating of dark wax. Guessing the abrasive sand/salt in the winter and dust, stone from warm weather gravel surface just wore it off. My first new car was a '84 Saab 900. Only kept it for 7 years. No issues after 7 winters. White paint job. Rarely washed it in the winter. Body was rust free. Undercoating was still visible.

 

[torch]

Shop person noted the thin steel is strong and part of design to absorb impacts to reduce passenger damage. Problem is not very stiff. Don't lean against a GM pickup.

Not limited to GM or pickup trucks...

38 years ago I'd respond to a collision and sort out the dead from the seriously injured. The vehicles were often repairable.

These days the vehicles are a tangled mess of crumpled metal but the occupants are all standing around outside taking selfies. We go through more cold-packs (due to air bag deployment) than we do compresses and bandages.

 

[chim]

Way back when I had a '78 Ford F150 bare bones three-on-the-tree with a 300CID 6 cylinder for a few years. The manual steering was a workout machine, but otherwise it was a great truck. Ran it until 1983 and never a problem.

Had a '90-ish Chevy 2WD loaner for a few months after a yahoo ran into my '90 Silverado 4WD and totalled it. The loaner had a v6 with manual on the floor and I'd buy a new one just like it today if I could.

Bought a '75 K5 Blazer new and by 1978 it was rusting through above the wheel wells.

Still have the '09 Trailblazer I bought from the company for $1.200 when I retired in September of 2021 as a "temporary" vehicle till we decided on a new SUV. It now has 301,000 miles on it. Last year was the first year I spent more than $1000 on repairs. Mechanically its in great shape, but there are places where rust is starting to come through.

When I was younger, any car that had over 70,000 miles was considered just about shot!

 

[mikester]

There are still old cars with good frames. That seems to have more to do with what was put on the road than the frame.

I agree that the coatings are mostly better although OEMs occasionally miss a spot.

Be thankful you live where they don’t excessively salt roads because the guberment wants to save money on grader blades.

My experience is that newer vehicles tend to be more efficient and last longer than the POS Swiss cheese rust buckets of old. Then again I don’t buy Kia, VW or Chrysler (or whomever owns that failed company these days) so my perspective is skewed a little towards quality and longevity. Come to think of it I stopped buying the big three 25 years ago due to poor quality and lack of warranty “service” on their crap products.

 

[xrocketengineer]

Here is another "annoyance" with new trucks. You can not even replace the battery yourself.

 

[McMXi]

Here is another "annoyance" with new trucks. You can not even replace the battery yourself.

Please provide screenshots from relevant owner's manuals which indicate that this is the case. My 2024 F-450 owner's manual suggests disconnecting the batteries for long-term storage. This is what it states in the manual. No warnings about the hazards of disconnecting or reconnecting. Additionally, in the maintenance section there's the advice to regularly check and clean battery terminals. Kind of hard to do that without disconnecting them.

12 Volt Battery

• When storing your vehicle for longer than 30 days the battery state of charge should be approximately 50%. Additionally, we recommend to disconnect the 12v battery to reduce system loads on the battery, or you can use a trickle charger for longer storage periods.
• Check and recharge as necessary. Keep connections clean.

 

[xrocketengineer]

The problem appears to be not when the same battery is removed and reinstalled. The issue is with a new battery. If the BMS (Battery Management System) is not reset, the computer assumes that it is still dealing with the old battery and it will not charge the new battery properly. My 2014 Focus ST has the sensor on the negative side of the battery. The last time I installed a new battery, I had to do a sequence of actions (which I don't remember now how) until a message on the instrument panel indicated that the BSM had been reset. According to the video, on most 2018 or later vehicles, the BMS can only be reset using the dealer's OBDC computer system. Otherwise, you have to have the equivalent computer, a subscription to be able to operate the computer with the proper software and a tech certification. In other words, a paywall. All of this has been justified in the name of "security".

 

[SDT]

There seem to be a lot of repairs these days requiring being a contortionist monkey with small hands!

That's long been the case for some models but, yes, such continues to worsen as vehicles have become smaller and more and more mandated equipment is in the way.

 

[SDT]

Not limited to GM or pickup trucks...

38 years ago I'd respond to a collision and sort out the dead from the seriously injured. The vehicles were often repairable.

These days the vehicles are a tangled mess of crumpled metal but the occupants are all standing around outside taking selfies. We go through more cold-packs (due to air bag deployment) than we do compresses and bandages.

Bingo.

Even a minor collision can result in air bag deployment.

Many, many otherwise repairable cars are totaled by insurance companies after collisions due to the added costs to replace the air bags.

 

[SDT]

Please provide screenshots from relevant owner's manuals which indicate that this is the case. My 2024 F-450 owner's manual suggests disconnecting the batteries for long-term storage. This is what it states in the manual. No warnings about the hazards of disconnecting or reconnecting. Additionally, in the maintenance section there's the advice to regularly check and clean battery terminals. Kind of hard to do that without disconnecting them.

12 Volt Battery

• When storing your vehicle for longer than 30 days the battery state of charge should be approximately 50%. Additionally, we recommend to disconnect the 12v battery to reduce system loads on the battery, or you can use a trickle charger for longer storage periods.
• Check and recharge as necessary. Keep connections clean.

Interesting that any manufacturer would recommend a "trickle," charger for long term storage.