ZB1600

[tncompact]

Hi newbie to Orange Tractor.
I’ve owned this ZB for 7 years and it has been handy. But I always looked for a loader that was compatible, like a unicorn !
Well God smiled on me and an exact model ZB1600 with loader came up and it’s now sitting on my trailer waiting for this Arctic weather to mellow. The donor has a what sounds like a good motor, Tranny made a noise loading it and locked up. Fortunately it was able to roll up on trailer.
Question the hydraulics for the loader on the donor ZB1600 connect under rear axle.
My ZB has rear remotes. I assume I can run the hydraulics to the quick connects?

 

[Russell King]

That depends on how the rear remotes were installed.

Take some pictures of how the donor tractor is connected to the FEL and then some of the rear remote connections on your Zen-non ZB1600. Post them here with good headings so we know what we are looking at.

 

[tncompact]

Russell I will try to post picture’s again it has failed previously

 

[tncompact]

With all these ads popping up my replies and pictures don’t get sent?

 

[tncompact]

Controller line far left runs under to mid Tranny the far right run into engine compartment I have yet to open access panel

 

[Russell King]

With all these ads popping up my replies and pictures don’t get sent?

Not sure what browser you are using but I use duck duck go and get no ads.

you can also get a lifetime membership and eliminate the ads.

 

[Russell King]

Okay those pictures just show the valve but not the tractor.

@tncompact
Do you have much experience with hydraulics on tractors or is your first venture into them?
I am assuming “little to no knowledge“ so please don’t be insulted if you do have some knowledge.

Kubotas use an open center valve system in their tractors until their larger models. That simply means the hydraulic fluid flows continuously from pump through the valves and back to the tractor sump. It uses the same fluid as the HST transmission and pumps.

The valve will divert the flow to the cylinder and build pressure in one side of the cylinder. Most cylinders are double acting which means they are able to exert force in both directions (can push or pull). As one side is filled with fluid the fluid on the opposite side is pushed back to the sump. That flow is called tank return.

So, in general, the flow to a valve is the Power in and connects to a port on the valve that is labeled P. Then the flow is inside the valve cavity that is the main body and has a few ports that are normally labeled T for tank or N for neutral (as I know it). To get flow (with usable pressure) out of that valve, something has to be installed in the valve to protect it from the dow stream pressure. That is usually called Power Beyond (PB) or High Pressure Carry Over (HPCO). There are sleeves or plugs to be installed in the valve but they must be purchased to match the valve usually purchased at the same time as the valve. Valves will also have two outlet ports “to provide flow and pressure to and from the working cylinder.

Some valves do not use a PB connection but use the T port to pass the pressure. Usually a backhoe valve or the third function valves are that type.

So most valves will have a power in hose, a power beyond hose, and a tank return hose. There can be NO TEEs in the power or the power beyond hoses, they must allow flow from tractor to valve to with no diversion. The tank return lines can be TEEd together to return one hose to the tractor.

Most hydraulic problems seem to be from incorrect connections of hoses or incorrectly connected quick disconnects.

 

[Russell King]

So all that being said I only see six lines on the valve instead of seven. Please verify how many hoses connect to the valve. There should be four that connect to the FEL cylinders. There may be two or three that go to the tractor. Please verify how many hoses connect to the tractor and take pictures of how it is connected to the tractor.

From the tractor there will be some source of hydraulic flow. That will come from the pump so you may need to locate the hydraulic pump on the tractor and follow the pump output line to see where it goes.

For some reference here is a picture from my L185 that shows how the hydraulic flow is connected to a valve. The red highlighted hard line comes from the pump, into the block and then is diverted out a port through the red highlighted rubber hose. That connects to the power in port of the valve. The power flows through the valve and out a power beyond sleeve returning to the block through the blue highlighted rubber hose into the block and is diverted into the blue highlighted hard line. That continues into the three point hitch valve and dumps back into the sump. The green highlighted line is the third line connected to the valve and is the tank return line that dumps into the tractor sump.

 

[tncompact]

Thank you Russell, yes I also have Duck Duck go.
Your explanation of hydraulics does help. I have a rudimentary understanding of it.
The firs pic is the far left line onfel to Tranny. Second is where gel lines split one on right goes into engine compartment (weather permitting I’ll open white cover today).
Third is donor tractor.
TIA

 

[Russell King]

Ok I am not 100% sure but the first picture looks like the filter and suction line out of the transmission that would run to the pump. The line in the second picture look like they are the pressure line out of the pump that has been cut into two. So the pump will pump into one (probably the upper) connection and is now diverted into the rubber flexible hose, that then goes to the valve power in port. That will probably have a “P” cast into the valve. Out of the valve a rubber hose is probably running back to the other (probably lower) connection and restoring flow back to the original path that goes into the tractor to the three point hitch.

Are there any additional rubber hose connections into the tractor?

How many hoses are connected to the rear remote? Can you provide pictures of the rear connections you mentioned?

 

[tncompact]

Thank you again Russell.
the controller is that what you refer to as FEL? Has 6 lines.
This is the ZB I’ll be transferring the loader to.
Second pic is the receiving tractors rear remote lines.

 

[tncompact]

Receiver pump has two lines both run back to Tranny. I will have to remove foot plate or rear fender to see where the upper line goes.
The donor pump I’ll have to get more pics.
on My MasseyFerguson the pump for the rear lift is internal. I hadn’t investigated it before on my ZB. I assume that the pump behind the injector pump on both ZBs feeds the three point lift. I can see the lower line connection on both to Tranny. I need to trace the one on the receiver ZB better they get jumbled by tranny.
I’ll get more pics TIA

 

[Russell King]

First picture is the hydraulic pump. The top line looks larger and should be the suction line. The bottom line looks smaller and should be the pressure out line that feeds the three point hitch.

From the pictures of the rear remotes they appear to be the type that is controlled with the three point hitch control handle. There should be some type of lever or handle to turn for using the three point or to use the connection points at the rear. I would NOT use those to connect to the FEL valve (aka controller). Since there are only six lines that valve will not have tank return only power in and power out, then the four lines to the FEL cylinders.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Don't mess with the rear remotes, it will be too confusing.

You will need to do what they did on the other tractor and tap into the small pressure line off of the pump.
Also don't mess with the larger line as that is the suction line, and has nothing to do with your install.

Interesting fuel lift pump bypass:

 

[tncompact]

Thank you Russell and N Idaho,
The pictures of the donor ZB pump and hard line, with loader. I’ll have to get a closer look at the pump and lines to be positive of the setup. But copying it’s setup should work since it does work both loader and 3pt.
Is it best to drain Tranny hydraulic fluid while doing swap?
TIA

 

[Russell King]

You will need to drain the donor tractor of fluid or you will make a mess when disconnecting the hoses.

I don’t think you need to drain the fluid from the tractor you are going to mount the FEL to BUT you may make some mess when you cut into the line. So put a tray on the floor!

It would not hurt to drain the fluid out though. Do you know what type of fluid is in the recipient tractor?

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

I would drain and pull the filter and clean it.
The filter is the big nut in your pictures of the suction line.

 

[tncompact]

I haven’t had to add any so I don’t know what type. On other brands I’ve had I used utf

 

[Russell King]

I haven’t had to add any so I don’t know what type. On other brands I’ve had I used utf

I assume you mean a UTTF fluid not one of the expensive Kubota semi or synthetic fluids.

Since it is not too expensive, I would suggest you dump and change it so you know what type you have and that you know when it was changed. And you can clean the filter.

 

[tncompact]

I’ve previously used Traveller from TSC UTF. I see where Rotella has a UTTF, and others mentioned UTTO? Is synthetic preferring?
and there’s mention of a filter behind the big return nut . And the drain I assume is a big nut on the bottom of Tranny? I haven’t pulled these into the garage one at a time yet, but with cold weather here and going to stay until end of February it’s my project. Thanks I’ll get back on progress.