Will the 3pt free lift?

[Tgrund]

Does the 3pt lift arms on the new models free lift? First time I hooked up the 3pt I was unable to free lift the 3pt arms. It was actually a pain to hook up because I had to get it just right. But I had a trailer hooked up to the 3pt the other day and when I unloaded a tractor off of the trailer it raised the 3pt up as the rear of the trailer went down. Now my 3pt will free lift. I don’t know if this is normal or if I broke something. Everything is still working as it should and maybe it was just stiff when I first got it. Just checking if I need to have the dealer look at it when it goes back to have the FEL installed. Model is L4060LE.

I have only had older ford 8n’s before this new bota so there are a lot of things that I am unsure of how the new technology works. On my 8n free lifting the 3pt is normal

 

[NCL4701]

The 3 point free lifts (i.e. “floats”) just like your 8N.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Does the 3pt lift arms on the new models free lift? First time I hooked up the 3pt I was unable to free lift the 3pt arms. It was actually a pain to hook up because I had to get it just right. But I had a trailer hooked up to the 3pt the other day and when I unloaded a tractor off of the trailer it raised the 3pt up as the rear of the trailer went down. Now my 3pt will free lift. I don’t know if this is normal or if I broke something. Everything is still working as it should and maybe it was just stiff when I first got it. Just checking if I need to have the dealer look at it when it goes back to have the FEL installed. Model is L4060LE.

I have only had older ford 8n’s before this new bota so there are a lot of things that I am unsure of how the new technology works. On my 8n free lifting the 3pt is normal

Yes but not as easily as the old 8N.

Dan

 

[GreensvilleJay]

I assume the 3ph control lever needs to be fully down, for the arms to be 'free' AND that the knob that shuts off the 3ph oil is open.
Don't know your tractor but my BX23S has a 'position hold' knob, like a water faucet tap in the 3ph lift system,allows you to 'lock' the 3ph at a spot If the control lever is 'up' then the arms should stay up.
Others with your tractorr model will know. Heck I've never had the 3ph on my BX23S in 3 years.

 

[TheOldHokie]

I assume the 3ph control lever needs to be fully down, for the arms to be 'free' AND that the knob that shuts off the 3ph oil is open.
Don't know your tractor but my BX23S has a 'position hold' knob, like a water faucet tap in the 3ph lift system,allows you to 'lock' the 3ph at a spot If the control lever is 'up' then the arms should stay up.
Others with your tractorr model will know. Heck I've never had the 3ph on my BX23S in 3 years.

Almost all tractors have single acting cylinders oh the 3pt. You can lift the arms from any set position and they will return to that position when you let go. The lowering speed adjustment valve only affects the speed at which they come back down. And depending on the design of the rock shaft it may have no effect at all.

Dan

 

[Tgrund]

My fear was on the 4060 there is two additional lift cylinders mounted to the lower arms. I was afraid I may have screwed this cylinders up

 

[TheOldHokie]

My fear was on the 4060 there is two additional lift cylinders mounted to the lower arms. I was afraid I may have screwed this cylinders up

Thats why i was careful with my answer. I am not sure of the exact design used on the Grand L but I am pretty sure it is still single acting.

Dan

 

[Henro]

Almost all tractors have single acting cylinders oh the 3pt. You can lift the arms from any set position and they will return to that position when you let go. The lowering speed adjustment valve only affects the speed at which they come back down. And depending on the design of the rock shaft it may have no effect at all.

Dan

Just to clarify, I am pretty sure on my tractors the lowering speed adjustment only comes into play from the point at which the the 3PH cylinder happens to be.

For example, if I lock my 3PH in position by closing the lowering speed valve completely, then lift the arms up and let go, they fall pretty fast and independent of the lowering speed adjustment, which in this example is set to zero speed, since it is closed fully.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Just to clarify, I am pretty sure on my tractors the lowering speed adjustment only comes into play from the point at which the the 3PH cylinder happens to be.

For example, if I lock my 3PH in position by closing the lowering speed valve completely, then lift the arms up and let go, they fall pretty fast and independent of the lowering speed adjustment, which in this example is set to zero speed, since it is closed fully.

After you have known me for a while longer Henro you will discover I try to be very careful about what I say:

And depending on the design of the rock shaft it may have no effect at all.

Dan

 

[Henro]

After you have known me for a while longer Henro you will discover I try to be very careful about what I say:
Dan

Point well taken.

BUT how many tractors actually do not have a free moving 3PH when the speed adjustment valve is fully closed? I guess your sentence referring to a rock shaft went over my head...and perhaps the OP's head too?

I would be curious to know for what percent of tractors the 3PH speed adjustment has an effect when it is fully closed. IF the 3PH is free to float upwards independent of the cylinder that activates it. I guess that was my point.

My understanding is that the piston that causes the 3PH to be lifted, is not connected to the arms mechanically, but rather pushes against them, so If they are raised while the piston is stationary, the piston has no affect on them until they are lowered again and the mechanism contacts the piston. So the lowering speed valve would have no affect for these kinds of tractors.

My gut tells me chances are the OP's tractor is one of those, similar to mine.

BUT I do not have a clue really, and could be totally off base. But without going out to verify, I am pretty sure on my two Kubotas if I close the lowering-speed valve fully, it has no effect if I raise the arms more and release them.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Point well taken.

BUT how many tractors actually do not have a free moving 3PH when the speed adjustment valve is fully closed? I guess your sentence referring to a rock shaft went over my head...and perhaps the OP's head too?

I would be curious to know for what percent of tractors the 3PH speed adjustment has an effect when it is fully closed. IF the 3PH is free to float upwards independent of the cylinder that activates it. I guess that was my point.

My understanding is that the piston that causes the 3PH to be lifted, is not connected to the arms mechanically, but rather pushes against them, so If they are raised while the piston is stationary, the piston has no affect on them until they are lowered again and the mechanism contacts the piston. So the lowering speed valve would have no affect for these kinds of tractors.

My gut tells me chances are the OP's tractor is one of those, similar to mine.

BUT I do not have a clue really, and could be totally off base. But without going out to verify, I am pretty sure on my two Kubotas if I close the lowering-speed valve fully, it has no effect if I raise the arms more and release them.

My caution was precisely because of the OPs tractor. The Grand L's like his and many larger tractors of many makes use external cylinders on the 3pt. The arms on them are mechanically connected to the cylinders and when you raise the arms by pulling up on them you are extending those cylinders. The cylinders will impose a resistance both up and down. The effect of the lowering speed valve on free fall when you let go of the arms is not at all clear to me in that situation and may depend on where in the system it is placed. Notice that last sentence is another cautious statement.

Dan

 

[Henro]

My caution was precisely because of the OPs tractor. The Grand L's like his and many larger tractors of many makes use external cylinders on the 3pt. The arms on them are mechanically connected to the cylinders and when you raise the arms by pulling up on them you are extending those cylinders. The cylinders will impose a resistance both up and down. The effect of the lowering speed valve on free fall when you let go of the arms is not at all clear to me in that situation and may depend on where in the system it is placed. Notice that last sentence is another cautious statement.

Dan

OK. As I said, what do I know?

Maybe someone with specific knowledge of the OP's tractor will chime in...Hope so. I certainly cannot add anything helpful at this point.

 

[TheOldHokie]

OK. As I said, what do I know?

Maybe someone with specific knowledge of the OP's tractor will chime in...Hope so. I certainly cannot add anything helpful at this point.

I am pretty sure the OP's concern have been put to rest. His arms can be lifted just like his 8N but there will be more resistance because unlike his 8N with free floating rockshaft he is extending the lift cylinders. If he is so inclined perhaps he will experiment with the lowering speed valve and report the results.

Dan

 

[GreensvilleJay]

I had a look at the online parts for an L4060HST ( 4 versions but no LE )...
2, 3PH single acting cylinders are mechanically connected to the 'rockshaft', though there appears to be 'vent' tubes connecting the 'top' side of the ram 'chamber' to the control valve assy. Be interesting to know why those are there...
To raise the arms, the valve needs to flow oil to the btm of the cyclinders, To lower, it has to 'bleed' (return the clyinder oil to the reservoir.. I didn't check all the diagrams ,so I don't know if there is a 'hold' knob like the BX23S.
At anytime, you should be able to lift up an arm,feeling the resistance of the seals and packing inside the cylinder.
Hopefully an L4060LE owner will tell us.
I know some of the Russian Belarus tractors have double acting cylinders on the 3PH system. makes it easy to change rear tires....well, easier....

 

[TheOldHokie]

I had a look at the online parts for an L4060HST ( 4 versions but no LE )...
2, 3PH single acting cylinders are mechanically connected to the 'rockshaft', though there appears to be 'vent' tubes connecting the 'top' side of the ram 'chamber' to the control valve assy. Be interesting to know why those are there...
To raise the arms, the valve needs to flow oil to the btm of the cyclinders, To lower, it has to 'bleed' (return the clyinder oil to the reservoir.. I didn't check all the diagrams ,so I don't know if there is a 'hold' knob like the BX23S.
At anytime, you should be able to lift up an arm,feeling the resistance of the seals and packing inside the cylinder.
Hopefully an L4060LE owner will tell us.
I know some of the Russian Belarus tractors have double acting cylinders on the 3PH system. makes it easy to change rear tires....well, easier....

Yes, the internal plumbing will determine the effect of the lowering speed valve. Hard to glean that from parts diagrams. I would think the design goal would be to allow the arms to float as normal otherwise something like a scraper blade would not dtay in solid contact with the surface. But that's pure speculation.

Over the years a number of manufacturers have used double acting cylinders on the 3pt. Farmall briefly had them in the 50's. Its currently an option on the JD 4R compact and pretty much standard on large machines in the Fendt and Claas range.

Dan

 

[Dennis.D]

On my Gr L6060 you can lift the arms by hand when hooking up implements. The 6060 came with the telescoping ends which also helps to ease hook up.