Time for tractor!?

K7G

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L2501HST, LA526 w/ L2248, BB1260, RCR1860, EA Disc Harrow
May 29, 2023
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Aladamnbama
DT versus HST: As an old(er) guy, I’m comfortable with manual transmissions in cars and trucks. Like most our age, the car I learned to drive was a three-on-the-tree.

Is the DT worth the discount considering the relative “close in” work I’d be doing in the trees or is the HST the better choice? If I was working in large fields or large tracts, the DT would probably be a better option, correct? Or am I overthinking it?
 

K7G

Active member

Equipment
L2501HST, LA526 w/ L2248, BB1260, RCR1860, EA Disc Harrow
May 29, 2023
76
111
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Aladamnbama
Another question: any warranty service issues if I purchase from another dealer but have it serviced locally? My brother-in-law wanted me to price it at a dealer that his friend manages.
 

The Evil Twin

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Equipment
L2501, LA526,
Jul 19, 2022
2,475
2,434
113
Virginia
DT versus HST: As an old(er) guy, I’m comfortable with manual transmissions in cars and trucks. Like most our age, the car I learned to drive was a three-on-the-tree.

Is the DT worth the discount considering the relative “close in” work I’d be doing in the trees or is the HST the better choice? If I was working in large fields or large tracts, the DT would probably be a better option, correct? Or am I overthinking it?
IMHO, if you will be doing a lot of maneuvering, go HST. I was also in the learned on a manual club. However, after doing a lot of loader work and grapple clearing, I'm glad I opted for the HST. This is what I basically deal with. Going forward and back several times to turn around. I believe a manual would have been traded in.
20230528_165844.jpg
 
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K7G

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L2501HST, LA526 w/ L2248, BB1260, RCR1860, EA Disc Harrow
May 29, 2023
76
111
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Aladamnbama
Got it, thanks ET.
 
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GrizBota

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L3830HST/LA724, B2601/LA435/RCK54-32, RCR1872, CDI 66”grapple, pallet forks
Apr 26, 2023
1,154
734
113
Oregon
DT versus HST: As an old(er) guy, I’m comfortable with manual transmissions in cars and trucks. Like most our age, the car I learned to drive was a three-on-the-tree.

Is the DT worth the discount considering the relative “close in” work I’d be doing in the trees or is the HST the better choice? If I was working in large fields or large tracts, the DT would probably be a better option, correct? Or am I overthinking it?
You are not over thinking it. Get the HST if you’re doing lots of maneuvering. I too learned on manuals, didn’t have an automatic anything until the very late ‘90s. I have an 8N Ford tractor with a four speed manual. I literally haven’t used it since I got my first HST tractor in ‘07 and I’m pretty sure I’ll die with the 8N sitting in the barn where it is right now. HST allows you to move a 1/4 inch if you want. I know everyone is a pro manual tranny and clutch operator so those folks will claim they can do the same on a manual. For us mortals though, HST is a game changer for what a CUT was made for.

Obviously presuming it’s the right tool for the job. If you want to hay a section of land, probably not. I suspect someone will have the urge to share that they can and do hay with an HST too. A section of land is 640 acres, have fun with that. A 10 or 20 acre hobby farm is a different deal.
 
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K7G

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L2501HST, LA526 w/ L2248, BB1260, RCR1860, EA Disc Harrow
May 29, 2023
76
111
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Aladamnbama
Thank you. I’m on the right track it seems.
 

PaulL

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Equipment
B2601
Jul 17, 2017
2,250
1,209
113
NZ
In between this post and the last one, MrsK7 walked around and I explained the little projects. Now it’d be worth my time to build a small spreadsheet (cough/nerd/cough) and highlight the differences between the BX, B, LX and L models under 25 hp. I understand the X indicates a lighter version of essentially the same model but I want to insure I don’t miss something.
The spreadsheet already exists: https://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/threads/bx-vs-b01-vs-b50.36719/

It's a bit older, nothing much has changed, but the B2650 got renamed the LX2610. Same machine pretty much - some comfort things have changed on the various models, but not so much.

The X does mean "smaller than" - so an LX is smaller than an L, an MX is smaller than an M, a BX is smaller than a B. But it doesn't mean "smaller but the same" - they're completely separate models.

The L2502 is quite a good machine. It's a 1.3L engine that is seriously detuned, so it has a lot of torque but tops out at quite low revs (that's how they keep the total HP under the emissions cap - a machine with more than 26HP needs additional emissions controls). And as others on here will tell you, when you get bored you can put a turbo on it and liberate quite a few ponies.

Realistically all you need is the B2601 though, and you're financially limited. The bigger tractor would be better, but given a choice between a B2601 with grapple and a LX2610 without a grapple, I think I'd go with the grapple. That's the real choice you have here I think - more on the base tractor, or more on implements.

Of course, you could put it all into the tractor now, and then make a business case for new implements next year......new year, new funding, right?
 
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ve9aa

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TG1860, BX2380 -backblade, bx2830 snowblower, fel, weight box,pallet forks,etc
Apr 11, 2021
1,202
980
113
NB, Canada
All my vehicles are manual (motorbike, DD cars, classic car) but I prefer the HST on the tractors.

I say buy the biggest tractor that you can afford -and- fit between your door frame !

Good luck !

(pix or it didn't happen) ;-)
 
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PaulL

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B2601
Jul 17, 2017
2,250
1,209
113
NZ
You are not over thinking it. Get the HST if you’re doing lots of maneuvering. I too learned on manuals, didn’t have an automatic anything until the very late ‘90s. I have an 8N Ford tractor with a four speed manual. I literally haven’t used it since I got my first HST tractor in ‘07 and I’m pretty sure I’ll die with the 8N sitting in the barn where it is right now. HST allows you to move a 1/4 inch if you want. I know everyone is a pro manual tranny and clutch operator so those folks will claim they can do the same on a manual. For us mortals though, HST is a game changer for what a CUT was made for.
Yup. A manual transmission in a tractor isn't like a manual transmission in a car, and the tasks aren't really the same either. If you had a car that spent all its days pulling a boat out of the boat ramp, you'd pretty soon want an auto. Tractor use, particularly small tractor use, is more like pulling a boat out than driving on the freeway and/or carving up some mountain roads. Tractor clutches are heavy and mostly snatchy, and when you're doing loader work (for example) you're back and forth constantly, so you're in and out of gear.

HST is definitely the right choice unless you're running a big machine and/or doing long straight passes. You have lots of trees, there's no long straight passes in your future. HST is also nice in that it separates engine revs from speed. So when you're running a rotary cutter you can constantly vary speed without having to keep changing gear (the rotary cutter needs constant revs).
 
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K7G

Active member

Equipment
L2501HST, LA526 w/ L2248, BB1260, RCR1860, EA Disc Harrow
May 29, 2023
76
111
33
Aladamnbama
All my vehicles are manual (motorbike, DD cars, classic car) but I prefer the HST on the tractors.

I say buy the biggest tractor that you can afford -and- fit between your door frame !

Good luck !

(pix or it didn't happen) ;-)
All in good time!

Your Land Rover …III or IIA? I had a Series III with an overdrive as a daily driver in Phoenix. Summer days were a challenge but it never failed to put a smile on my face!
 

K7G

Active member

Equipment
L2501HST, LA526 w/ L2248, BB1260, RCR1860, EA Disc Harrow
May 29, 2023
76
111
33
Aladamnbama
The spreadsheet already exists: https://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/threads/bx-vs-b01-vs-b50.36719/

It's a bit older, nothing much has changed, but the B2650 got renamed the LX2610. Same machine pretty much - some comfort things have changed on the various models, but not so much.

The X does mean "smaller than" - so an LX is smaller than an L, an MX is smaller than an M, a BX is smaller than a B. But it doesn't mean "smaller but the same" - they're completely separate models.

The L2502 is quite a good machine. It's a 1.3L engine that is seriously detuned, so it has a lot of torque but tops out at quite low revs (that's how they keep the total HP under the emissions cap - a machine with more than 26HP needs additional emissions controls). And as others on here will tell you, when you get bored you can put a turbo on it and liberate quite a few ponies.

Realistically all you need is the B2601 though, and you're financially limited. The bigger tractor would be better, but given a choice between a B2601 with grapple and a LX2610 without a grapple, I think I'd go with the grapple. That's the real choice you have here I think - more on the base tractor, or more on implements.

Of course, you could put it all into the tractor now, and then make a business case for new implements next year......new year, new funding, right?
I like the way you think. Lol

On paper, the L2501 or L2502 looks good. I’ve requested pricing on it, the LA525 loader, the LP RCR1260 rotary cutter and the BB1260 box blade for a family contact. I’’ve also asked for the package above with the third function valve and the price for everything including the grapple itself. Three price points, three options.

The local dealer has the package above with the trailer for $26,990 cash. No third function or grapple. Their webpage lists the financing as zero down, $393 per month. I called and they said it was 84 months so….$33,000 total costs including insurance but not taxes. I need to research insurance options to see if the total cost makes sense.
 

ve9aa

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Equipment
TG1860, BX2380 -backblade, bx2830 snowblower, fel, weight box,pallet forks,etc
Apr 11, 2021
1,202
980
113
NB, Canada
All in good time!

Your Land Rover …III or IIA? I had a Series III with an overdrive as a daily driver in Phoenix. Summer days were a challenge but it never failed to put a smile on my face!
1961 Series II
Now sold (wish I still had it!)
 
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K7G

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Equipment
L2501HST, LA526 w/ L2248, BB1260, RCR1860, EA Disc Harrow
May 29, 2023
76
111
33
Aladamnbama
1961 Series II
Now sold (wish I still had it!)
Nice! I couldn’t see the headlights so it was a guess.

Years ago, I had a 109” Dormobile from the same era. The bulkhead was rusted out and I sold it having lost the enthusiasm to rebuild it from the ground up.
 

Matt Ellerbee

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Lifetime Member

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MX6000
Jun 27, 2019
1,755
1,983
113
Canton, Georgia
Alright, I’m just gonna come out and say it… MX. It’s an absolute beast and will do all you will ask of it.

I had an LX2610 before I got the MX. It is a fine size tractor too. Go sit on them all and see what fits, you’ll know.
 
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K7G

Active member

Equipment
L2501HST, LA526 w/ L2248, BB1260, RCR1860, EA Disc Harrow
May 29, 2023
76
111
33
Aladamnbama
Alright, I’m just gonna come out and say it… MX. It’s an absolute beast and will do all you will ask of it.

I had an LX2610 before I got the MX. It is a fine size tractor too. Go sit on them all and see what fits, you’ll know.
Thats a little more than I want to spent at this point in time! Maybe for the next purchase. We’ll stop by the tractor place in the next day or two to try a few on for size.
 

PaulL

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Equipment
B2601
Jul 17, 2017
2,250
1,209
113
NZ
I like the way you think. Lol

On paper, the L2501 or L2502 looks good. I’ve requested pricing on it, the LA525 loader, the LP RCR1260 rotary cutter and the BB1260 box blade for a family contact. I’’ve also asked for the package above with the third function valve and the price for everything including the grapple itself. Three price points, three options.

The local dealer has the package above with the trailer for $26,990 cash. No third function or grapple. Their webpage lists the financing as zero down, $393 per month. I called and they said it was 84 months so….$33,000 total costs including insurance but not taxes. I need to research insurance options to see if the total cost makes sense.
If it's not interest free, then $33K over 84 months v's $27K cash - my calc (RATE formula in Excel) is they're charging you effective 6%. I wouldn't pay 6% personally, even though I suspect there'll be places you could put your money that pay more than that in the next few years. You get tax and messing around. Interest free or not interested I'd say.

Comments on the attachments.

You almost never want the trailer that's included in a package, they're made to a price point. If it's not the trailer you'd buy if you were straight up buying a trailer, then I'd be careful.

The LP RCR come in light duty and medium duty. The RCR1260 is light duty 60 inch. The RCR1548 is heavier duty but 48 inch. I think the RCR1860 would be a better buy, but then it's not my money I'm spending. :) Do you really need a 60 inch cutter? Looks to me like most things you'd cut you'll have two passes anyway - one on this side of the tree, one on the other......is there any area on your property where a 60 inch will actually mow faster than a 48 inch?

Similarly, the BB1260 is the light duty 60 inch. The BB1560 is the medium duty. Worth considering, and also worth considering whether a box blade is really what you need. A lot of people recommend a grading scraper instead.

I feel like I saw a better video than that, but not sure where - pulling all the gravel to the surface of a driveway that literally looked like pure dirt before he started. I thought it was a Messicks, but perhaps not. People who have a grading scrape/land plane swear by them. Box blades are apparently fiddly, and really good for large renovation. Land planes are mostly idiot proof and suitable for a once a month tidy up - which if you keep doing, will mean you never need to do more.

There's not much more cost in an L2502 than an L2501. I'd pay the difference for brakes on the left, floor mat and I think something else that they changed that I forgot. Perhaps it was electronic clutch on the rear PTO. Messicks have a video if you look.
 

K7G

Active member

Equipment
L2501HST, LA526 w/ L2248, BB1260, RCR1860, EA Disc Harrow
May 29, 2023
76
111
33
Aladamnbama
I wasn’t going to assign any interest rate until I could determine the insurance cost but your point is well-taken. Even at the current deal rate of 0.99% and 84 months, they aren’t starting from the cash price. Cash is still king.

Appreciate the advice on 60” versus 48”. Still learning and you’re helping!
 

GrizBota

Well-known member

Equipment
L3830HST/LA724, B2601/LA435/RCK54-32, RCR1872, CDI 66”grapple, pallet forks
Apr 26, 2023
1,154
734
113
Oregon
Alright, I’m just gonna come out and say it… MX. It’s an absolute beast and will do all you will ask of it.

I had an LX2610 before I got the MX. It is a fine size tractor too. Go sit on them all and see what fits, you’ll know.
I was looking at potentially up sizing my PTO Hp that the L has by either getting a larger L (30 or 40 series) or an HST MX. the MXs are a good value for the Hp, if you need it. Myself, I’m thinking an MX is more tractor than needed on a hobby farm. But in the right application, any of the various tractor sizes can be the right tractor. But any of them is better than no tractor.
 

PaulL

Well-known member

Equipment
B2601
Jul 17, 2017
2,250
1,209
113
NZ
I wasn’t going to assign any interest rate until I could determine the insurance cost but your point is well-taken. Even at the current deal rate of 0.99% and 84 months, they aren’t starting from the cash price. Cash is still king.
It often isn't with Kubota, because the financing comes from Kubota themselves and the dealer carries no additional cost from using financing, they often haven't been that keen on cash prices, it's often been the case that 0% interest and cash were about the same price. At the moment that's not the case though.

Inflation is still running 5-7%. So arguably you'll be paying a lot of the tractor off with money that's worth quite a bit less than today, so deferred payments could be good. But I'm not confident inflation will stay that high, presumably one day someone will do something about it.

Appreciate the advice on 60” versus 48”. Still learning and you’re helping!
Reading back, I wasn't super clear. The options here are:
- RCR1260: light duty 60 inch
- RCR1548: medium duty 48 inch
- RCR1860: medium duty 60 inch

The RCR1860 is obviously the best, because it will be by far the most expensive. :). The RCR1548 might not be a lot more money than the RCR1260, you get a smaller cutter but built stronger. It would also stick out less far since the cutters are all square - 60 inch wide means 60 inch long. 48 inch wide will be 48 inch long. Your dealer will know - as soon as you ask "what about the RCR15 or 18 series, I hear they're stronger" it'll suddenly turn out that they know the 12 series is light duty. It also depends how hard you're working it - they're not a bad rotary cutter, they're just for lighter use.

What work do you need to do on the driveway? Is that the only use for the box blade, or do you have other uses? Take a look at the land planes and see what you think.
 

GrizBota

Well-known member

Equipment
L3830HST/LA724, B2601/LA435/RCK54-32, RCR1872, CDI 66”grapple, pallet forks
Apr 26, 2023
1,154
734
113
Oregon
It often isn't with Kubota, because the financing comes from Kubota themselves and the dealer carries no additional cost from using financing, they often haven't been that keen on cash prices, it's often been the case that 0% interest and cash were about the same price. At the moment that's not the case though.

Inflation is still running 5-7%. So arguably you'll be paying a lot of the tractor off with money that's worth quite a bit less than today, so deferred payments could be good. But I'm not confident inflation will stay that high, presumably one day someone will do something about it.
This is exactly why I took the Kubota 0% interest vs the $500 discount for cash when I bought my B last year. Easy math. Inflation was 9% last year. Bought my Kubota at the 1/3 point, so in just those 8 months for the remainder of the year the reduction in buying power of the cash I could have bought the tractor with was about $1500. So if I’d paid it off at the end of that first year it would have been with cash that had $1500 less buying power than it did 8 months earlier. I told the sales guy, I’ll take the financing, the tractor and keep my money. Over the 5 year pay back period, inflation will probably accumulate to about 30%, the average dollar in that time frame having experienced about half that decrease in value. That’s a nice discount which beats the heck out of a $500 cash discount and not having the money working for me.