Starter click, no start BX2660

[Hackman101]

Thanks first off for allowing me to join your group.
I searched the forum for the trouble I am having but I still have not resolved the issue. What I have for the most part is the seemingly typical problem of turning the key, the 3 lights come on which is the battery, glow plug and another that I cannot recall. The solenoid clicks and the motor does not turn over. After about 5 seconds pass, I hear another click. I changed the battery, thinking that the 12 year old battery finally took a dump. No change. I installed the retro starter solenoid from John Deere, after I read about here and elsewhere hoping and expecting it to solve the issue, and no change, it acts like it is not even there. Just clicks and clicks again after 5 seconds passes by.

I called the local Kubota dealer and spoke to the service guy there, I first asked if they have mechanics that do onsite repairs, which they do, So I proceeded to tell him my issue and what I have done. He said I should reseat all the connector of all the safety switches and see if that changes anything. I also asked him about jump starting it but I wanted to be sure about the plastic cover over the starter wire connection. He said it could be "short started" he called it, but could not recommend doing that. I tried that anyway, it fired right up. So the starter is still good.

I wish I could remember to call the same place again and ask about the switches or solenoids, what ever it is that is faulty that makes this problem occur. I hope this forum could shed some light on the actual question I have. Which is, if the issue is with a solenoid, which I think there are 5 of them that have to "behave" in order for me to start the motor, are all the solenoids the same? I would plan to remove one, replace it with a new one, try the starter, if it doesn't work, remove it replace it with the original and move onto the next solenoid and repeat the process until the faulty one is found and simply leave the new one in place.

Since I have to dismantle the tractor to a degree in order to check the connections, I wanted to "test" each solenoid while I had it apart to hopefully save some trouble.

If it is a switch that is usually the culprit, well that is a different matter, since I am sure each location has its' own particular switch. Or so I think it will be a different matter??

 

[DustyRusty]

Find the seat switch and remove the wires from it. Then jumper the two seat switch wires so you have effectively removed that switch from the system. Then if it doesn't start, make sure that the handles for the PTO are disengaged (Do this first! I am being lazy and don't want to go back to rewrite the directions.) This is a safety switch issue, and I am not familiar with all the safety switches on your tractor. Also, make sure that the turtle/rabbit lever is in the neutral position.

 

[Mark_BX25D]

The battery may be good, but that doesn't mean your cables and connections are. A corroded cable or connector can allow enough current to pass to light things up, make things click, and read correct voltages, but still not pass enough current to start an engine.

 

[Hackman101]

Find the seat switch and remove the wires from it. Then jumper the two seat switch wires so you have effectively removed that switch from the system. Then if it doesn't start, make sure that the handles for the PTO are disengaged (Do this first! I am being lazy and don't want to go back to rewrite the directions.) This is a safety switch issue, and I am not familiar with all the safety switches on your tractor. Also, make sure that the turtle/rabbit lever is in the neutral position.

I checked the PTO lever first thing, I forgot to put that in the original post. I noticed that the motor would not start on occasion when I dismounted from the left side. That's when I hit the lever and with just that little bit of force down the PTO lever would not let it start. I am talking about not out of the detent, just sitting down hard on it. Pulling it up just a fraction would let it start.

I will do the seat bypass, that will eliminate one of the 5. The turtle rabbit lever, that is one thing I set in various settings as well. I have hydrostatic, it always started whether it was on turtle, neutral or rabbit.

 

[Hackman101]

The battery may be good, but that doesn't mean your cables and connections are. A corroded cable or connector can allow enough current to pass to light things up, make things click, and read correct voltages, but still not pass enough current to start an engine.

If I was able to short start it, would that not show that there is enough power in the battery? It is a new battery, and I checked the connections before reattaching. I also coated then in terminal preservative, so I call it.

 

[DustyRusty]

The battery may be good, but that doesn't mean your cables and connections are. A corroded cable or connector can allow enough current to pass to light things up, make things click, and read correct voltages, but still not pass enough current to start an engine.

He already verified that the cable connections are good because he was able to bypass the start switch and the starter cranked the engine over and the engine started. A bad safety switch is the problem, but which one is the question. Without being there in person, and doing proper testing all we can do is lead him to where to look, but it is up to him to diagnose and fix the problem. Resolving electrical problems requires a methodical method of testing.

 

[DustyRusty]

I checked the PTO lever first thing, I forgot to put that in the original post. I noticed that the motor would not start on occasion when I dismounted from the left side. That's when I hit the lever and with just that little bit of force down the PTO lever would not let it start. I am talking about not out of the detent, just sitting down hard on it. Pulling it up just a fraction would let it start.

I will do the seat bypass, that will eliminate one of the 5. The turtle rabbit lever, that is one thing I set in various settings as well. I have hydrostatic, it always started whether it was on turtle, neutral or rabbit.

Bypass them one at a time till you locate the one that allows the tractor to start. Then one by one start putting them all back in place one at a time, testing as you do each one. This will "prove" that it is just one, but it could be that there is more than one that is defective. It may be that one is "out of range" and just needs to be reset, such as the PTO switch you described. Others such as the seat switch have no adjustment, and just need to be replaced. Twenty years ago the only safety switch on my BX22 was the PTO lever. My BX23S has a multitude because lawyers have gotten involved when someone makes a foolish move and gets injured. I am wondering when the day comes that tractors will have helmets that you have to wear before you can operate them.

 

[Hackman101]

Bypass them one at a time till you locate the one that allows the tractor to start. Then one by one start putting them all back in place one at a time, testing as you do each one. This will "prove" that it is just one, but it could be that there is more than one that is defective. It may be that one is "out of range" and just needs to be reset, such as the PTO switch you described. Others such as the seat switch have no adjustment, and just need to be replaced. Twenty years ago the only safety switch on my BX22 was the PTO lever. My BX23S has a multitude because lawyers have gotten involved when someone makes a foolish move and gets injured. I am wondering when the day comes that tractors will have helmets that you have to wear before you can operate them.

FWIW I have been a shade tree mechanic since way back when. but all the switch and solenoid stuff has me thrown. I can do as you say, it is easy enough since it is only a matter of bypassing each switch.

Soooo, the question is.... how do I bypass the switch? I have not really looked to closely at any of them. The seat one appears to be buried under the cushion somewhere somehow and only the leads are visible, and they are sheathed. Is it just a matter of disconnecting the connector, and if there are 2 wires to the switch, jumper the 2 wires together? I do not know the term "normally open or normally closed" but I guess it is safe to assume that joining the 2 wire will finish the circuit, and satisfy what is needed to start the motor? It seems to be the obvious way to do it if there are only 2 wires, but if I don't ask.....

 

[Mark_BX25D]

He already verified that the cable connections are good because he was able to bypass the start switch and the starter cranked the engine over and the engine started.

That's what I get for scanning a thread quickly!

 

[Mark_BX25D]

Is it just a matter of disconnecting the connector, and if there are 2 wires to the switch, jumper the 2 wires together? I do not know the term "normally open or normally closed" but I guess it is safe to assume that joining the 2 wire will finish the circuit, and satisfy what is needed to start the motor? It seems to be the obvious way to do it if there are only 2 wires, but if I don't ask.....

Bingo.

"Normally closed" (NC) means a a switch that is closed (circuit is complete, current flows) when you aren't doing anything with it.

"Normally open" (NO) means the circuit is open (broken, no current flows) when you aren't doing anything with it.

There is usually a spring to keep the switch in its normal position, and when you press on the switch (sit on the seat, press on a pedal, flip a lever, whatever) you act against that spring to activate the switch.


Safety switches are typically a "normally open", and when you sit on the seat, etc. you complete the circuit and allow current to flow, which allows the tractor to start and run.

When you jumper them you are completing the circuit, allowing current to flow.

 

[DustyRusty]

An electrical engineer once told me that "normally open" or "normally closed" refers to the way the switch is wired when sitting on a shelf. How it is installed and used in the application is where it gets "wonky". Seat switches close or join together when you sit in the seat. As I said previously, I am not familiar with your tractor, and this is where a service manual is helpful. The wiring diagram will show the switch, and how it is activated. The seat switch is removable, and where and how the wires connect into the starting circuit will require searching from the seat back to the main harness. If it were my tractor, I would just cut the wire where it is convenient and install a new connector if the factory connector is located in an inaccessible location. If you search "seat switch" you will find that many people have been having problems with them. It may be inferior quality switches, or that they are not resistant to dampness.
There are tools today that can help with diagnostics of electrical problems, but they sometimes have a steep learning curve and are expensive to purchase. Just take your time and don't let get you going down the rabbit hole too deeply. You can't tell a normally open or closed switch by looking at it. You need to use a tool such as a multi-meter to see how it operates and then do the opposite to verify its quality.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

With any 'electrical ' problem, 1st step is to get the wiring diagram for your machine. Since you did the JD bodge and it still won't start, I suspect a bad ignition switch or safety switch or corroded wiring. The fact that it'll start when you jumped at the starter means good battery, bat cables and starter.
Typically power goes from battery to ign sw to a 'neutral' switch to seat switch to PTO/mower switch then to starter relay/solenoid...without the wiring diagram, it's hard to say WHERE the fault is.

 

[Mark_BX25D]

An electrical engineer once told me that "normally open" or "normally closed" refers to the way the switch is wired when sitting on a shelf. How it is installed and used in the application is where it gets "wonky".

Well, it's still either NC or NO. How that interacts with the circuit can get.... creative.

You can't tell a normally open or closed switch by looking at it.

Actually, many are marked on the body somewhere. There is an "NC" or an "NO" somewhere. If you don't know what it means, it's easy to miss, and they can be pretty small. Others may have a part number printed on the body which can be looked up online.

You need to use a tool such as a multi-meter to see how it operates and then do the opposite to verify its quality.

And that is the best way.

 

[Hackman101]

Thanks for all the input guys. I will do my best to figure out how to set my multimeter to test the switches. I have the manual for it, so all I need to do is follow directions.. I also have downloaded the work shop manual (WSM) and printed out all the pages related to the switches and their locations. I had the WSM for some time, but just did the printout last week and gave it a once over. I have noticed already that the seat switch is not out in the open like the WSM shows, but it still gets me in the general area, and besides, now I know I do not need to get to the actual switch, just the connector.

Today I hope to get to checking these things out, maybe get to the PTO switch. The WSM says I need to remove the left rear wheel to access it, I could not find a connector within eyesight looking through from the backside, just a wire perhaps going to it with the corrugated wrap around it.

I also hope to get to the neutral switch, it may be easy to find under the tractor, I have the hydrostatic drive so the forward and reverse is a "heel/toe" pedal on the floorboard. All those would get 3 of the 5 out of the way. The rest from what have read are under the dash and the steering wheel needs to be removed... or maybe those are relays. I have gone in so many directions trying to resolve this, until I got here and you guys are giving me a solid direction to go to sort this problem out.

Thanks a bunch!!

 

[Mark_BX25D]

Thanks for all the input guys. I will do my best to figure out how to set my multimeter to test the switches.

Look to see if it has a "continuity' test setting. Some meters have this, and will beep for you when you have continuity.

If not, you'll be using the OHMS setting, and you are looking for near zero ohms.

Disconnect your switches (both connections) and use your meter to determine IF and HOW they work. You are looking for NC or NO or NW (No Worky!).

If any switch shows no continuity no matter what you do, it's bad. Replace it, or for a temporary get-you-back-to-work fix, jumper where the switch was. (Assuming it's an NO switch, which is almost certain.)

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=multimeter+continuity+test

 

[Hackman101]

Look to see if it has a "continuity' test setting. Some meters have this, and will beep for you when you have continuity.

If not, you'll be using the OHMS setting, and you are looking for near zero ohms.

Disconnect your switches (both connections) and use your meter to determine IF and HOW they work. You are looking for NC or NO or NW (No Worky!).

If any switch shows no continuity no matter what you do, it's bad. Replace it, or for a temporary get-you-back-to-work fix, jumper where the switch was. (Assuming it's an NO switch, which is almost certain.)

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=multimeter+continuity+test

It is a decent Klein, popular brand. I got it to work on the ohms scale did a little this and that.

Well long and short of it is now running, I took off the JD solenoid, found out when I tightened it up it must of spun the connector for it the wrong way and the eyelet was broken off. If the JD part was going to work, I seen to it that it didn't.

I found the connector for the one buried in the seat I think it must be the rider present sensor because when I pulled down on the back of the seat it did not read anything. Found a connector a little farther down the line for the seat sensor that did not have a plastic clip part that housed the 2 wires and held them to its other counterpart, just 2 bare blades stuck into the other half with some tape wrapped around it that was partly falling off. Undid the tape, cleaned all the accumulated dirt that was all up inside the connector part that was there, and tried the key, no start. This was the second place I set the jumper to bypass the seat sensor.

Moving on, I was able to locate the PTO switch real easy, it was under the seat. I found the kinda accidentally. I was moving my arm around and hit the PTO lever just as I was looking down in a spot and seen the hidden part move of the PTO lever under the cover where I was looking. It had 4 wires going to it so I was going to take a pic of it and post it here to ask about how to test that one but my eye caught another connector that I hadn't noticed before. I realized THAT is the seat sensor, when I pressed down again on the back of the seat, the plunger that was visible in this switch was not being depressed. So I did it instead of the seat. It fired right up. Problem solved. I will write more since there were a few observations I made, but I need to get to the store.

Thanks again for the encouragement to try the things that got me in the right spot to find the solution. I am still holding my breath on this because of what I noticed that I have not mentioned yet.

This is an update to what I was supposed to write about my observations.

My @#(**&&^% short term memory really sucks!!!! Now I can remember what it was that I seen to report back about.

 

[Hackman101]

Well it has been a while, my ride is back to its old trick again, ran fine the last time, let it set for a few weeks or more, get back on it to fire it up and nothing. Dash lights up, tried jumping it through the battery, same clicking as without the jump. Haven't tried short starting, I may try it as part of the diagnosis.

I tried what I thought was the remedy the last time, but no joy. I must have forgotten something so I'm back printing out the last post to keep with me. Maybe it will be easier this time.

 

[Tony D]

Thanks first off for allowing me to join your group.
I searched the forum for the trouble I am having but I still have not resolved the issue. What I have for the most part is the seemingly typical problem of turning the key, the 3 lights come on which is the battery, glow plug and another that I cannot recall. The solenoid clicks and the motor does not turn over. After about 5 seconds pass, I hear another click. I changed the battery, thinking that the 12 year old battery finally took a dump. No change. I installed the retro starter solenoid from John Deere, after I read about here and elsewhere hoping and expecting it to solve the issue, and no change, it acts like it is not even there. Just clicks and clicks again after 5 seconds passes by.

I called the local Kubota dealer and spoke to the service guy there, I first asked if they have mechanics that do onsite repairs, which they do, So I proceeded to tell him my issue and what I have done. He said I should reseat all the connector of all the safety switches and see if that changes anything. I also asked him about jump starting it but I wanted to be sure about the plastic cover over the starter wire connection. He said it could be "short started" he called it, but could not recommend doing that. I tried that anyway, it fired right up. So the starter is still good.

I wish I could remember to call the same place again and ask about the switches or solenoids, what ever it is that is faulty that makes this problem occur. I hope this forum could shed some light on the actual question I have. Which is, if the issue is with a solenoid, which I think there are 5 of them that have to "behave" in order for me to start the motor, are all the solenoids the same? I would plan to remove one, replace it with a new one, try the starter, if it doesn't work, remove it replace it with the original and move onto the next solenoid and repeat the process until the faulty one is found and simply leave the new one in place.

Since I have to dismantle the tractor to a degree in order to check the connections, I wanted to "test" each solenoid while I had it apart to hopefully save some trouble.

If it is a switch that is usually the culprit, well that is a different matter, since I am sure each location has its' own particular switch. Or so I think it will be a different matter??

• OEM Part Numbers: AM107421

Jd part should work if wired correctly. I just fixed one that was wired wrong and put one on a zd 323. works great.

 

[Hackman101]

Thanks, I got it going. I didn't need the JD part either. I popped the steering wheel, pulled the key switch, and using my wiring diagram found that the black and white wire that goes to the solenoid, through a couple of safety switches goes to the momentary contact in the key switch. So I too off the clip that's on the solenoid, added a clip on a 3' piece of 16g wire and shoved it on the solenoid. Ran the wire with the others to the key location and removed the B/W wire from the connector to the key switch, placed the new wire in the connector and replaced the clip in the connector block. It was a tight fit, so iti is a good connection. Set the connector back onto the key switch and presto, works like a charm!