Need advice L3302 HST

[TheOldHokie]

I called the nearest Kubota dealership when it happened which to me seems a better call than to come here first. I came here for advice on what to do now that it is at this point. I am sorry I seem to have come to the wrong place for advice on this. If someone can give me a ballpark idea of what they would expect a engine damaged Kubota L3302 HST with those implements would sell for with 15 hours I will be on my way.

WAG - 25% of list for the tractor.

Dan

 

[EastTXBeavs]

I have to wonder if you would have done more to look for the source of the leaking coolant had you paid for the tractor like most of us have to do. When you spend $200 on a tractor and implements that most pay $35k for or more perhaps you're not as motivated to get on the floor and look around.

This has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of Kubota products so question all you want. I've enjoyed more than 10 years of trouble-free ownership of Kubota equipment and look forward to many more with tractors #3 and #4.

I would like to add, I dont know squat about tractors as this is my first one ever. I hardly know much about diesels and currently have my first one of those too. I am new to this. Medicine is my world so I am blissfully aware of my lack of knowledge. That being said, I was prepared to buy a tractor like an m7060 for 50k+ and still would have no idea what to look for and would be hoping that the dealership would cover the deficit in my knowledge. That is the honest truth. In a way, if this was something I did, maybe this was a less expensive way to find out to check inside the radiator as well as the reservoir.

 

[McMXi]

I would like to add, I dont know squat about tractors as this is my first one ever. I hardly know much about diesels and currently have my first one of those too. I am new to this. Medicine is my world so I am blissfully aware of my lack of knowledge. That being said, I was prepared to buy a tractor like an m7060 for 50k+ and still would have no idea what to look for and would be hoping that the dealership would cover the deficit in my knowledge. That is the honest truth. In a way, if this was something I did, maybe this was a less expensive way to find out to check inside the radiator as well as the reservoir.

It's the letter that I find despicable and the flagrant attempt to get someone else to pay for your mistakes. We all make mistakes, but this culture of everyone else is to blame is far too common these days. And now every muppet thinks they have the power of social media to get companies to bend over backwards for them.

If you want advice, I'd go back to the dealer who auctioned off the tractor and find out why it was auctioned and with no warranty, and then determine if they're a big part of the problem. Could they have knowingly auctioned off a damaged tractor? Where did they get the tractor from? Did they sell it originally? Are they a good and respected Kubota dealer? How many tickets were sold for the auction?

 

[EastTXBeavs]

I have opted to ignore future posts from mcmxi. Thanks for the help with approximate valuation. Thanks those who have helped me figure out where I may have missed an important check off before running the tractor. I will definitely add opening radiator to assess for fluid as part of a prerun check. I watched quite a few videos on operation checklists before attempting this and dont remember seeing it but it will be locked in the ole noggin now. I got some good advice here mixed in with some advice that was not requested with a side of vitriol from Kubota's very own white knight. For those offering to help, thanks a bunch. I know Kubota has a long history of reliability so I am not judging the entirity of Kubota based on this one thing especially if it was something that I did directly (although I never did anything to sabotage for sure). I am still surprised that my tall grassy pasture with weeds was enough to knock loose or crack something inside the motor area but I clearly could've acted sooner when things started going wrong.

 

[MapleLeafFarmer]

new to reading this thread and no matter how you slice and dice this one that is some sh@ty bad luck right off the get go.

However I would approach your letter a little differently. either:

1) take the approach that it "might" be considered partially ( 0 to 100% could be argued) a manufacturers / dealer assembly / pre-check / defect type of problem and hope to get some consideration.

or

2) take the new user "oops" approach and ask for some dealer / manufacturer consideration for this very unfortunate and catastrophic issue.

As you mentioned, Kubota is a top shelf company and I know my dealer and manufacturer rep. in my area care about their customers (past, present and future) and given something like this, which is definitely out of the norm., you might find that they surprising offer you at lest some possible support.


good luck and wish you much success. Please let us know the outcome as probably lots of inquisitive minds here would love to know the outcome.

I have a L3301 and love it. Its built very well and works like new after 10 years of pretty hard work at times. If you can get yours back up and running it can make someone very very happy to have parked on their property.

Cheers

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

I have opted to ignore future posts from mcmxi. Thanks for the help with approximate valuation. Thanks those who have helped me figure out where I may have missed an important check off before running the tractor. I will definitely add opening radiator to assess for fluid as part of a prerun check. I watched quite a few videos on operation checklists before attempting this and dont remember seeing it but it will be locked in the ole noggin now. I got some good advice here mixed in with some advice that was not requested with a side of vitriol from Kubota's very own white knight. For those offering to help, thanks a bunch. I know Kubota has a long history of reliability so I am not judging the entirity of Kubota based on this one thing especially if it was something that I did directly (although I never did anything to sabotage for sure). I am still surprised that my tall grassy pasture with weeds was enough to knock loose or crack something inside the motor area but I clearly could've acted sooner when things started going wrong.

You've become offended at the harsh facts!
Did some push your buttons on it, yea it happens on here.

I personally find some of your " letter " and subsequent omissions suspect.

You didn't buy the tractor, you won it.
Kubota did not have anything to do with any of that transaction.
So sadly they are not going to do a thing for you.

If you really want to dig it to it.
Go to a Kubota dealer with the serial number of the tractor and ask for a sale record.
Something is just not adding up on a 5 hour tractor being "used".

Why didn't you call the delivery dealership?
Have you to talked with them?

Why call a different dealership and ask advice?
And I'll bet your information to that dealer wasn't complete.
Stating something like " it's leaking from a hose up here" is a lot more information than a simple it's put a puddle on the ground.
If your doctoring someone and they say they leaving a puddle of blood on the ground, do you tell them just ignore it, or do you find out where and why they are leaving a puddle on the ground.

Did you talk with the raffle agent?
Did you pay taxes on the received tractor and equipment?

Why didn't you verify warranty, I'll bet you verify health insurance coverage before you "work" on someone.
Did you get a PDI sheet on the tractor?
Did you get the operator's manual?

Did you ask anyone if plugging the air cleaner would overheat the tractor, FYI: It won't.

Now did you get duped by the delivery dealership, don't know?
Did you get duped by the raffle agent, don't know?
Did you get ahold of the raffle agent and express your issues?

How long ago did this happen?
It sounds like quite a bit of time has elapsed.

One other note: Even if you did have a factory warranty, they would more than likely deny the claim as what happend to you is considered negligence or abuse on your part.

Sorry is this is too harsh, but my advice to you would be learn what your using before you use it.
You wouldn't pick up a scalpel and just start hacking and hope you get it right would you.

 

[PoTreeBoy]

I'll take a different approach. Since it still starts and runs, I'd fix the leaking hose. Then refill it with antifreeze solution, leave the radiator cap off, start it and run it a while. Look in the radiator cap opening for bubbles and keep an eye on the temperature gauge. Stop it, let it cool, and check the radiator level. It may drop a little while purging the air out. Refill and repeat a few times.

If you continually see bubbles in the coolant or the exhaust has a sweet smell, engine damage is indicated. Otherwise, run it. I'd change the oil and filter before too long. Keep an eye on the radiator and change the oil and filter more frequently for a while. What do you have to lose?

 

[NCL4701]

Values…

Implements: Check prices online at Tractor House, Equipment Trader, Machinery Pete, etc. Locations closer to your area will provide a more accurate value as it varies some by market. The loader can technically be an implement but for pricing, it’s part of the tractor.

Tractor: Start with the same process to determine value for a low hour undamaged L3302 HST with loader. Subtract about 90% of the repair quote from the dealer. That should get you in the ballpark for an as is where is value.

Had a coolant leak on mine starting at about 10 hours. Fiddling with it a bit, determined the worm drive type hose clamps were all finger tight or less. Spent a few minutes with a nut driver and 580 hours later, no more leaks.

I agree with others there are some weird things about the course of events but it sounds like you’ve learned a few things and are fortunate you still made a nice profit on your $200 wager.

So far as a tall grass and weed (forb) populated field damaging a radiator hose, that’s extremely hard to believe. (I’m aware that’s what you were told, not what you said happened.) Now, if you were running over 1.5” diameter tree saplings and, while one or more was combed forward under the tractor, you reversed direction, that could cause one or more of the saplings to jam into the bottom of the radiator or lower hose. Even with saplings it’s not likely but at least it’s within the realm of possibility.

The mere fact that the dealer told you it was likely a hose was damaged by mowing tall grass and weeds would make me question everything else they said as the grass/weeds causing damage is 100% BS.

To be totally clear, I’m not calling you out on that BS story, but am calling out anyone who fed you that line.

 

[EastTXBeavs]

You've become offended at the harsh facts!
Did some push your buttons on it, yea it happens on here.

I personally find some of your " letter " and subsequent omissions suspect.

You didn't buy the tractor, you won it.
Kubota did not have anything to do with any of that transaction.
So sadly they are not going to do a thing for you.

If you really want to dig it to it.
Go to a Kubota dealer with the serial number of the tractor and ask for a sale record.
Something is just not adding up on a 5 hour tractor being "used".

Why didn't you call the delivery dealership?
Have you to talked with them?

Why call a different dealership and ask advice?
And I'll bet your information to that dealer wasn't complete.
Stating something like " it's leaking from a hose up here" is a lot more information than a simple it's put a puddle on the ground.
If your doctoring someone and they say they leaving a puddle of blood on the ground, do you tell them just ignore it, or do you find out where and why they are leaving a puddle on the ground.

Did you talk with the raffle agent?
Did you pay taxes on the received tractor and equipment?

Why didn't you verify warranty, I'll bet you verify health insurance coverage before you "work" on someone.
Did you get a PDI sheet on the tractor?
Did you get the operator's manual?

Did you ask anyone if plugging the air cleaner would overheat the tractor, FYI: It won't.

Now did you get duped by the delivery dealership, don't know?
Did you get duped by the raffle agent, don't know?
Did you get ahold of the raffle agent and express your issues?

How long ago did this happen?
It sounds like quite a bit of time has elapsed.

I will try to fill in any gaps for you as best I can as I probably am ignorant of some gaps as well. The only thing noticed at first was a small puddle on the ground under the tractor after I parked it. I simply put a bit more antifreeze (got it from Lowe as well because I wanted to make sure I had the right stuff) because they said it may have just been an air bubble in the line or something and it might've burped out. After that the level in the reservoir never changed so I assumed that problem was done. Why didn't I call the delivery dealership? I got the tractor from Wowco in Baytown,TX, the tractor was up in Mt Enterprise, TX (3 hours away from our home in Houston and Wowco) which the closest dealer is Lowe tractor in Henderson, TX. I didn't know what was wrong with it until it started acting strange so I figured Lowe is the tractor dealer I would be doing business with for ongoing maintenance so figured it was best to start there. I do plan to call Wowco to see if they can give me more information regarding the tractor before it was raffled based on the replies on here. I got it from them April 21st of this year. It had 4.4 hours (just got the original paperwork from the safe) on it (please correct me if I am wrong if 4.4 hours makes sense as a used tractor or is normal mileage for transportation to dealer). I took it to Lowe in Henderson in early October with 15 hours on it, took them a couple of weeks to get to it and they gave me the news about 2 weeks ago which was when I sent the letter.

I did not pay taxes on the tractor, I literally walked in, they verified my drivers license to ensure I was indeed the winner, gave me keys, manual, gave me a walk around and went over the basic functions of the tractor and then I loaded it up on my trailer and drove it to our property. Warranty I honestly assumed it was new so I assumed it came with a standard warranty. They did offer to sell an extended warranty called KTAC? when i picked it up but I was under the impression it came with the normal kubota warranty and wasnt needed. Just saw on the paperwork from Wowco it says, "remainder of factory warranty available. Any warranty work to be completed by Wowco." Perhaps I should've driven it straight to them first and had them break it down. Definitely need to call them tomorrow. As for a PDI sheet I dont know what that is but dont have anything that matches that description that I know of in my envelope from them. I did get an operators manual for the tractor and implements and 2 keys. They said first service would be at 50 hours. I didnt run it a whole lot because we live in Houston, I work full time, we drive up to the property a few days a month to work on things, mow, etc. It was timber land prior to us paying someone to clear it so a lot of work still left to do. If we were out there all the time I would've had a lot more hours into it for sure by now.

I am glad to hear that the air filter screen getting clogged wouldnt cause this. At least I now know that for the next tractor. I thought for sure operating it that it was getting choked out.

 

[NCL4701]

Deleted.

 

[Russell King]

I am not sure what you are referring to as an “air filter screen” since there is an engine air intake filter and then a filter screen in front of the radiator to keep chaff out of the radiator. I am assuming you are referring to the fine mesh filter in front of the radiator. The engine air intake filter would stall the tractor engine out if clogged but it wouldn’t overheat the engine. See below for more details on the engine.

It is true that the weed and grass seeds will fill that radiator screen up and reduce the amount of air that gets through the radiator to cool the fluid. I was going to mention that when you are mowing it is a good idea to stop ever so often or as the temperature gauge goes higher to clean the chaff off the screen in front of the radiator. If there is room in front of the screen I suggest you add another filter in front of the screen like this plastic washable filter available at Lowe’s Home center (not the dealer Lowe). Cut to fit the size needed.

Just information for the original poster:
diesel engines require diesel fuel, compression and air to run. They have no spark ignition as a gasoline engine does. Older, simpler diesels did not require any electrical power to start and run, then the battery was added to power the starter to crank the engine over. After starting the key could be turned off and the engine continued to run. The engine was stopped by limiting the fuel or the air to the engine. On my older L185 tractor it has a manual lever to shut the fuel down to stop the engine. It also has what is called a decompression knob that allows the starter to easily spin the engine with no compression happening in the cylinders. This was a convenient way to start the engine when starters and batteries were not the best des things in the world.

All that being said, your tractor is pretty modern and requires electrical power to start (turn starter and energize safety switches and fuel shutoff system) and run (keep the fuel on and safety switches energized). It will shut down electrically when you turn the key off by limiting the fuel flow to the engine.

The air enters through the filter and enters a cylinder. Diesel engines have high compression ratios compared to gasoline engines (say 12:1 for diesel and 8:1 for gasoline). So the air gets compressed down to 1/12 of the original volume and naturally gets hot during that compression cycle. Then at exactly the correct time the diesel fuel is injected (injected means it is a high pressure atomized mist sprayed into the cylinder). The heated air and atomized fuel then explode and start expanding which produces the power that the engine produces to do work.

So if the air filter is clogged, the air volume is reduced through the engine and the engine will lose power since the fuel to air ratio gets messed up. The engine may be strong en to collapse the air filter but that would be a rare event in today’s world. But if the air filter was removed or collapsed the engine would run fine but eventually be ruined by too much dust be ingested and scoring the cylinder walls, allowing too much clearance between the wall and rings on the piston.

Overheating has the opposite effect on the cylinder. The piston and rings are expanding and the cylinder itself is not able to expand at the same rate. The rings on the piston then start to have too much interference with the cylinder wall and will score the cylinder walls and break the rings eventually. Then compression goes to zero and engine stops running. During the overheating cycle the engine will lose power since the loss of clearance is causing so much friction between the piston rings and cylinder walls that all the power is lost trying to move the pistons (just like a stronger person holding a weaker persons hands still).

 

[Russell King]

I'll take a different approach. Since it still starts and runs, I'd fix the leaking hose. Then refill it with antifreeze solution, leave the radiator cap off, start it and run it a while. Look in the radiator cap opening for bubbles and keep an eye on the temperature gauge. Stop it, let it cool, and check the radiator level. It may drop a little while purging the air out. Refill and repeat a few times.

If you continually see bubbles in the coolant or the exhaust has a sweet smell, engine damage is indicated. Otherwise, run it. I'd change the oil and filter before too long. Keep an eye on the radiator and change the oil and filter more frequently for a while. What do you have to lose?

I tend to agree with this sentiment except it is at the dealer and torn apart somewhat now.

I don’t think the OP has the mechanical knowledge to rebuild the engine in any way so it would be up to him if he wanted to pay the dealership to get it back together. I would imagine the dealership would be reluctant to do much work EXCEPT for any work having no warranty on it so the owner wouldn’t come back to complain or expect anything to be done.

I recommend the owner consider talking to the service manager about what they want to do. They may be able to rebuild the engine (replace sleeves if there are any, bore to oversized pistons/rings) or if they will just put it back together if they see minimal damage on the cylinders and only have the head off.

@PoTreeBoy what do you think you would do knowing that the dealer has it with the head off (in none running condition)?

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Warranty I honestly assumed it was new so I assumed it came with a standard warranty. They did offer to sell an extended warranty called KTAC? when i picked it up but I was under the impression it came with the normal kubota warranty and wasnt needed. Just saw on the paperwork from Wowco it says, "remainder of factory warranty available. Any warranty work to be completed by Wowco." Perhaps I should've driven it straight to them first and had them break it down. Definitely need to call them tomorrow. As for a PDI sheet I dont know what that is but dont have anything that matches that description that I know of in my envelope from them. I did get an operators manual for the tractor and implements and 2 keys. They said first service would be at 50 hours.

So it is under a factory warranty.
Doesn't matter which dealer works on it, Kubota will pay if they accept the warranty claim.
The dealer wrote on the paperwork the first service was at 50 Hours? If they did then it was new.

Is Lowe telling you that it's not under warranty?
Did they find a damaged hose?
Do you have full breakdown of the inspection they did?

KTAC covers just about everything except what the factory warranty covers.

Your fighting an uphill battle and you may not win...
You had it a long time and time is not on your side.
My personal opinion, get a hold of Wowco and see if they will do anything, don't be surprised if they don't.
Then get ahold of kubota customer care, and again don't be surprised if they don't do anything.
Then find out what Lowe will cost you to fix it.
Then come back with that number and we can tell you the best course of action.

 

[PoTreeBoy]

@PoTreeBoy what do you think you would do knowing that the dealer has it with the head off (in none running condition)?

There are a lot of unknowns here. But IF 1) it is genuinely out of warranty, and 2) it was still starting and running normally, I think I'd have the dealer inspect the head for cracks and, if none are found, reinstall the head using an OEM gasket, reassemble everything and run it.