Looking for Advice on Gravel Maintenance

[LFP57]

I have elderly relatives that don't have the resources to do the work themselves or to hire someone to take care of their gravel driveway, so I volunteered. My understanding is that nothing has been done in 30 years and it shows, many deep potholes along with crevices from running water.
I've never done this type of work, I did my best using what I had on their 300-400 foot driveway, a box blade. My understanding is that when there's potholes, one needs to grade to the depth of the pothole and that's what I did. While grading, I noticed that there was a very thin layer of gravel, mostly dirt mixed in. in the end it looked much better than it was and one can actually drive on it now.
The continuing issue is water running down the drive, into the parking area and into the garage. It appears from the first image the driveway is lower than both areas to the sides and acts as a channel for the water. I was told that there once was a berm where the blues lines are, it disappeared long ago, the idea was to direct the water to the left of the image, that didn't work out well because it forced water into a pole bar.
My questions are:
#1 what type of gravel do we need to put on top for here in Michigan, most of what's remaining is just dirt with a little bit of gravel mixed in.
#2 How do I grade the driveway to keep water from running down the drive into the parking area and in the garage. In the third image, from the parking area, the yard runs downhill into a pond.
#3 What would be the best approach to fix this going forward, culverts, drain tile, etc??

 

[NorthwoodsLife]

God Bless you for doing that. Let's hope that you are in their will.

Question#1: Call a local gravel or driveway const company in the area and ask them. My guess would be +/- 3/4 rip rap. Do they snowblow it?....

Q #2: Did water flow into the garage before? Install a French drain just before the garage. See 1st part of answer for #1.

Q #3: install a drainpipe, size depends on water flow, under the driveway. Daylighted on both side of the driveway.
Cobble stones or large crushed at the high side.
See 1st part of answer for Q #1.

Get a quotes from a local driveway company with details of what they will do. Don't tell them that you'll DIY it.

 

[Splinters and Sparks]

Some years ago I used crushed limestone for a drive about 3/4 of a mile long that was mostly dirt from neglect. That stuff locked up almost as tight as concrete. Before the limestone -I had to grade after nearly every rain. After- about once a year I had a pot hole or 2 to tend with. It also has the added benefit of being pretty acidic, so not alot of weeds/grasses grew in it.

 

[jimh406]

Run a grader/scraper over it. Most of the time, the existing gravel is just fine.

 

[old and tired]

First, you did a great job grading... If you are going to be adding gravel to the driveway, I would work on the driveway and shape it with what you have on hand (dirt and a little gravel) then add good gravel as a finishing touch.

I can't comment on gravel in your area - I use Crusher Run (3/4 minus). You want "fines" to compact down.

I would cut in ditches (even small ones work) on both sides (use that dirt to raise the middle of the driveway up). Put a proper crown on the driveway so water runs into the ditches...

I've used both 6" and 8" PVC pipe to move water from one side, to the other side of my driveway. I got them for free, schedule 40, 20' long pipe, and I had it on hand. I would dig a deep bowl area before the opening of the pipe (to collect sediment and only let water through the pipe).

I used the FEL to dig the pipe down a few inches (6"-7" deep) which also makes a raised water bar on the surface. I angle it across - about 30° and make sure it slopes downhill!

I usually let it rain on the dirt driveway a few times, I'll walk it in the rain to make sure water it doing what I want it to do BEFORE I put down any gravel! Easier to correct any problems (so you don't waste gravel).

Good luck, there are MANY threads about building driveways/roads on this site!! Most of them will tell you to fix water issues first!!

PS... and yes, you repaired the potholes correctly, digging until you are below the bottom of the pothole.

 

[Runs With Scissors]

Regarding the gravel name, my local gravel company near/in Alpena, Mi calls it 21aa (pronounced “twenty-one double a”)

I dont know if it’s a "local name thing" or not.

I think you did a fine job on the grading of it, and I fully agree that “water always wins”, so you need to redirect it using some sort of culvert/drainage.

I don’t have the expertise to give sound advice though.

If I was guessing, (and I am guessing), I would think one of those “corrugated galvanized steel” tubes buried in that area would be a good idea. But I don’t know how to prevent it from lifting during our freeze/thaw cycles.

Just an idea.

 

[old and tired]

....But I don’t know how to prevent it from lifting during our freeze/thaw cycles.

I admit that I know nothing about this!! or what that would do to my PVC pipe laid in "shallow" ground.

 

[D2Cat]

You describe water running down the middle of the road. I'd suggest lowering the outside edge of the drive on both sides by dragging the material to the center. This does two things. Begins to form a slight ditch for water to stay off the road, and adds material to the center where you need it.

If you need a culvert across the road don't use corrugated metal unless you have it laying around. Use the double wall smooth PVC. The big advantage of the smooth interior is material doesn't build up in it like the corrugated does. It just stays cleaner.

After you have the drive the way you want it, then determine if you need more rock. The driver should be able to lay the rock however you want it, requiring very little if any tractor work.

 

[LFP57]

Run a grader/scraper over it. Most of the time, the existing gravel is just fine.

I used box blade, thinking that it would bring up the gravel, but it didn't, mostly dirt.

 

[LFP57]

Regarding the gravel name, my local gravel company near/in Alpena, Mi calls it 21aa (pronounced “twenty-one double a”)

I dont know if it’s a "local name thing" or not.

I think you did a fine job on the grading of it, and I fully agree that “water always wins”, so you need to redirect it using some sort of culvert/drainage.

I don’t have the expertise to give sound advice though.

If I was guessing, (and I am guessing), I would think one of those “corrugated galvanized steel” tubes buried in that area would be a good idea. But I don’t know how to prevent it from lifting during our freeze/thaw cycles.

Just an idea.

This project is above my pay grade, the grading portion of it turned out better than I expected, it was more luck than everything. Everything I think I know, I learned from this forum and from watching Youtube videos.

I believe (I could be wrong) that when the initial gravel was put in, it was done incorrectly, There should have been a base layer (crusher run) and then topped off with something like the 21aa. Now after 30 years have no maintenace, the road is much lower than the sides and needs to be built up to keep it from acting like a channel for the water.

Your comment along with the others about control the water first makes the most sense and I believe that the corrugated tubes is the answer. It's far more complicated for me be because of the topology of the property and the house/garage location.

 

[LFP57]

First, you did a great job grading... If you are going to be adding gravel to the driveway, I would work on the driveway and shape it with what you have on hand (dirt and a little gravel) then add good gravel as a finishing touch.

I can't comment on gravel in your area - I use Crusher Run (3/4 minus). You want "fines" to compact down.

I would cut in ditches (even small ones work) on both sides (use that dirt to raise the middle of the driveway up). Put a proper crown on the driveway so water runs into the ditches...

I've used both 6" and 8" PVC pipe to move water from one side, to the other side of my driveway. I got them for free, schedule 40, 20' long pipe, and I had it on hand. I would dig a deep bowl area before the opening of the pipe (to collect sediment and only let water through the pipe).

I used the FEL to dig the pipe down a few inches (6"-7" deep) which also makes a raised water bar on the surface. I angle it across - about 30° and make sure it slopes downhill!

I usually let it rain on the dirt driveway a few times, I'll walk it in the rain to make sure water it doing what I want it to do BEFORE I put down any gravel! Easier to correct any problems (so you don't waste gravel).

Good luck, there are MANY threads about building driveways/roads on this site!! Most of them will tell you to fix water issues first!!

PS... and yes, you repaired the potholes correctly, digging until you are below the bottom of the pothole.

I spoke to the gravel pit closest to the house, they said they were out of gravel and didn't offer much advice on what to get, they did say crusher run, but said it was a mix of different sizes, some large, no mention of the 3/4 minus.

I believe you're 100% correct about the ditches, and at some point, the water must cross the driveway, the PVC would work great. Once the water crosses the driveway, I still have another issue of where that water runs to. To solve that problem will require running a pipe 150 feet down the slope to the pond below.

I realize I didn't supply enough/correct amount of images/information for people to understand the scope of the project, from the comments provided by the great people on this forum. I believe I'm on the right track, this is not my property and before I start digging, etc. I need to know what I'm doing is correct.

Thank you for taking the time to reply!

 

[Runs With Scissors]

The driver should be able to lay the rock however you want it, requiring very little if any tractor work.

+1 on this.

My driver was pretty good.

I probably could have finished it with a rake if I needed to……(but since I have a tractor, I used it )

 

[LFP57]

God Bless you for doing that. Let's hope that you are in their will.

Question#1: Call a local gravel or driveway const company in the area and ask them. My guess would be +/- 3/4 rip rap. Do they snowblow it?....

Q #2: Did water flow into the garage before? Install a French drain just before the garage. See 1st part of answer for #1.

Q #3: install a drainpipe, size depends on water flow, under the driveway. Daylighted on both side of the driveway.
Cobble stones or large crushed at the high side.
See 1st part of answer for Q #1.

Get a quotes from a local driveway company with details of what they will do. Don't tell them that you'll DIY it.

My aunt (upr 80s) has always been an important person to me, I would walk through broken glass to do any thing for her!
I retired four months ago at age 69, I'm bone-on-bone in the left knee and I have a partially torn Achilles tendon in my right ankle, along with the driveway maintenance, I've been clearing many downed trees, cutting down dead ones, etc.
We're considering selling our house in the city and moving to the country, my wife mentioned to them that she loves their property (it is a beautiful place) and since then, my uncle has mentioned (a couple of times) that we should buy their place.

Thanks for the reply!

 

[LFP57]

+1 on this.

My driver was pretty good.

I probably could have finished it with a rake if I needed to……(but since I have a tractor, I used it )

I thought that as well, from watching videos, a driver that knows what he's doing can save alot of work grading, the one company I spoke to said they cannot do that because of some trees near the drive, they'll only dump piles of stone.

 

[LFP57]

Some years ago I used crushed limestone for a drive about 3/4 of a mile long that was mostly dirt from neglect. That stuff locked up almost as tight as concrete. Before the limestone -I had to grade after nearly every rain. After- about once a year I had a pot hole or 2 to tend with. It also has the added benefit of being pretty acidic, so not alot of weeds/grasses grew in it.

Did you put anything underneath the limstone, how many inches did you lay down?

 

[D2Cat]

If tree limbs are in the way of spreading the rock just have someone with a smaller truck bring the rock. They can haul 8-9 tons in a short truck, therefore don't need all the clearance an end dump requires.

If you are unsure of what rock to use (since all locals use different terminology) ask the quarry for whatever the county puts on gravel roads.

 

[Splinters and Sparks]

Did you put anything underneath the limstone, how many inches did you lay down?

I only graded the old drive to smooth and then crown it, then had a truck lay down a 4" layer.

 

[Blue2Orange]

Locally there is one quarry that has "blue rock". Relative to even better grades of gravel and crushed limestone it withstands heavy rainfalls on moderately steeper pitches without channeling. It perks the water through vs. down hills. Two options from the quarry are 3/4" with and without binder. IIRC, just by the mass and how it locks in without steamrolling it naturally compresses to ~90%. Ton covers 100 sq feet with 2" that ends up close to 2".

In addition to really good resistance to erosion and no potholes is if you go without the binder which IMO, is the better choice. No dust after the first hard rainfall. With binder it takes a few hard rains to drive the fines into the surface.

The big BUT. Unsure and assuming like any material on highly impervious sublayer like clay or rock it will have issues. Guessing the same for a driveway over a real muddy wet area that doesn't have a proper base layer.

Unsure what "blue rock" actually is. Maybe some form of granite? 7 years ago was my last application. Just a surface touch up coating. it was a very almost blue black color. Quarry warned me the vein they are mining is more purple blue. Neither were really blue in color.