Lift arm stabilizer question

CKNPRO

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L4701 HST
Apr 16, 2021
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Alabama
Not sure where this should be, it I found the issue while ”operating” it, or rather in the process of changing implements, so I put it here.
I have n old Woods rotary cutter, 6’. I noticed when I hooked it up, the arms were just about maxed out in width. But I got it on. When I went to take it off, one side was maxed out in width, the cutter was on the ground, one side was off and I was stuck. Not being a novice, I moved the tractor back and forth inching the mower over enough to get the arm off. But it was a royal PITA! I had the sway linkages locked with no sway while using, and after dropping the mower, they didn’t move. But it turns out I had little to no adjustment left when I centered it up after mounting.....it doesn’t make sense to me either. But after comparing it to my old tractor still in the barn, the Bota just doesn’t have as much swing in the lift arms to start with, so there’s little margin. I have the “upgraded” sway linkages on my 4701, and that’s a good thing, but I have pondered how I might get a little more range of movement when the pin is out. I thought about taking it apart and cutting about an inch off the internal portion. But I’m afraid that will also limit my ability to limit the sway of an attached implement.
Anybody else deal with this? Any ideas? Thanks
 

GeoHorn

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I wouldn’t advise cutting any off your anti-sway bars. It sounds as if when you parked your shredder that it was simply put on the ground at the extreme range (left or right) of your 3-pt .... and not centered.
I’ve run into this and the fix when it’s discovered is to use the 3-pt to raise the implement again to allow things to “relax” ... then lower the implement for removal without letting the tractor shift position.
 

CKNPRO

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L4701 HST
Apr 16, 2021
31
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Alabama
I wouldn’t advise cutting any off your anti-sway bars. It sounds as if when you parked your shredder that it was simply put on the ground at the extreme range (left or right) of your 3-pt .... and not centered.
I’ve run into this and the fix when it’s discovered is to use the 3-pt to raise the implement again to allow things to “relax” ... then lower the implement for removal without letting the tractor shift position.
Yeah, I did that as well, centering the pto shaft - not my first time to unhook a hog. There was some unlevelness to the ground I was on and it was causing some issues as well. The fact remains that the Bota has less range of movement of the arms toward the tires. I‘m sure this is to account for those who might mount Ag tires close to the frame for row spacing. I noticed when the other side was completely off and this side would only move halfway off the post, the free side only had about 3” of space off the post. This means if things were perfectly centered, you have about 1.5” of space to work between. That’s too tight IMO.
This combined with the width of the lift arms themselves makes it less forgiving than it needs to be. Lift arms are a PITA on any tractor, and that’s why folks use the quick-hitches. But my implements are not QH compliant. I almost didn’t buy this tractor because of the static arms. I told myself I’d never buy another tractor that didn’t have the pull out lift arms. 🤬🤬 Though that still might not have helped with the unhook. I’ve looked at the “Pat’s” but I don’t think that’s the answer either.

Don’t know why you couldn’t put adjustable arms on a L4701?? If Kubota did so, they’d charge $3k more for them....☹
 

NCL4701

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L4701, WC68 chipper, grapple, BB1572 box scrape, Howes 500 rotary cutter, etc.
Apr 27, 2020
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I can’t quote you a cost but I do know you can purchase the upgrade length adjustable lift arms for the 4701 if you want them. My dealer mentioned it to me when I bought mine but I was unwilling to put any money into that as I’d never had them on prior machines and may have underestimated their worth.

You are correct about the max width of the arm spread. I have R4’s set at some mid-width (not narrowest position or widest) and can’t widen them further without a LOT of work on our trails. If I somehow modified the arms to move out wider I’d get about an inch more width total before they hit the tires. The implements with the clevis type lift arm mounts (free pin that slides through both implement and lift arm) are no problem. Some of the older bolted pin implements like the Howes 500 rotary cutter clear by less than 0.5” on each side and really MUST be centered to get off and on. Usually I can center it enough to get it off and on but have had a couple of times I take the adjustable link off, raise it with the turn buckle enough to clear the pin and then shift the cutter toward the now disconnected side by kicking the $&@% out of it. Most of my implements are on castered dollies and those are easy to wiggle around getting on and off. The Howes lives in a dirt floor shed so a steel shank boot is needed at times to persuade it.

Anything new I buy, I much prefer the clevis type free pin mounts on the implement side. Much easier to deal with when hitching to the limited width Kubota hitch.

Due to the way they connect with hooks rather than holes, Pat’s would solve your problem. I don’t have a Pat’s because I’m cheap and still young enough to kick the $&@% out of stuff.
 
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Henro

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Not sure where this should be, it I found the issue while ”operating” it, or rather in the process of changing implements, so I put it here.
I have n old Woods rotary cutter, 6’. I noticed when I hooked it up, the arms were just about maxed out in width. But I got it on. When I went to take it off, one side was maxed out in width, the cutter was on the ground, one side was off and I was stuck. Not being a novice, I moved the tractor back and forth inching the mower over enough to get the arm off. But it was a royal PITA! I had the sway linkages locked with no sway while using, and after dropping the mower, they didn’t move. But it turns out I had little to no adjustment left when I centered it up after mounting.....it doesn’t make sense to me either. But after comparing it to my old tractor still in the barn, the Bota just doesn’t have as much swing in the lift arms to start with, so there’s little margin. I have the “upgraded” sway linkages on my 4701, and that’s a good thing, but I have pondered how I might get a little more range of movement when the pin is out. I thought about taking it apart and cutting about an inch off the internal portion. But I’m afraid that will also limit my ability to limit the sway of an attached implement.
Anybody else deal with this? Any ideas? Thanks
Maybe I am missing something...but couldn't you just reverse the pins so they are pointing in rather than out? That is what I have done on my smaller tractor when I can't get enough spread of the 3PH arms...just the first thought that came to mind...
 
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NCL4701

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L4701, WC68 chipper, grapple, BB1572 box scrape, Howes 500 rotary cutter, etc.
Apr 27, 2020
373
253
63
Central Piedmont, NC
Some things probably a great idea. With some implements (such as our old back blade) turning them in would have the lift arms binding against the frame when lifted. If there’s sufficient clearance, agree that’s a really good solution.
 

CKNPRO

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L4701 HST
Apr 16, 2021
31
15
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Alabama
Maybe I am missing something...but couldn't you just reverse the pins so they are pointing in rather than out? That is what I have done on my smaller tractor when I can't get enough spread of the 3PH arms...just the first thought that came to mind...
Well - that might work...if I hadn’t welded the pins on the cutter long ago...😁

Might be worth $10 worth of new pins to find out.
 
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Henro

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Well - that might work...if I hadn’t welded the pins on the cutter long ago...😁

Might be worth $10 worth of new pins to find out.
I think if you check how close the 3PH arms come together at minimum spacing, and what the spacing will be between the pins if they point inwards, you should have a good idea if it will work before you spend that ten bucks! :)
 
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BobInSD

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L5740
Jun 23, 2020
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South Dakota
Mine (not turnbuckle style, so "updated"?) is bent a little so that the right side almost doesn't move out far enough for the Cat II implements. I'm going to take it off and try to straighten it.

I also notice that I normally can't get both sides in the round holes. There are oblong holes to allow a little wiggle and round ones that do not. I'd think I'd want both sides to be round/no wiggle at certain times?
 

CKNPRO

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L4701 HST
Apr 16, 2021
31
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Alabama
F4C42774-585D-473F-B153-2D2387F61B58.jpeg
FD955BFB-FA61-46FE-97B6-5A61D2FDC9B7.jpeg

this is a problem. Took me 15 mins to hook up the cutter. I measured and Pat’s or QH would require a new pto shaft too. Not cool
 

BobInSD

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L5740
Jun 23, 2020
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South Dakota
this is a problem. Took me 15 mins to hook up the cutter.
Is that a Cat I or Cat II implement? It looks as if you're getting all of the spread it was designed for (the sway link sliders are almost touching the tractor end and you're nearly to the tires). Are the pins straight? Mine works fine for Cat I, but I have the problem you have with the Cat II snowblower--compounded by the fact that one of the pins has been bent back somewhat, so it's a bear to get lined up. That goes on/off once a year and no more.

It does look like flipping the pins would solve your problem, but I agree that it shouldn't be a problem. Maybe somebody can tell you if it would sit right if you just put the inside pin below your welded on pins? I think if you can't "fix" the 3-pt and want to move the pins I'd grind/drill them out and use the same holes. But what about the next implement you try to use?

I measured and Pat’s or QH would require a new pto shaft too. Not cool
Yeah, after selling my previous tractor and buying the Kubota all of my shafts are about 4 inches short. I really like the tractor, but that's an un-anticipated expense (especially after I went to the larger L so that I could use all of my old implements). Annoying.
 

CKNPRO

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Equipment
L4701 HST
Apr 16, 2021
31
15
8
50
Alabama
Is that a Cat I or Cat II implement? It looks as if you're getting all of the spread it was designed for (the sway link sliders are almost touching the tractor end and you're nearly to the tires). Are the pins straight? Mine works fine for Cat I, but I have the problem you have with the Cat II snowblower--compounded by the fact that one of the pins has been bent back somewhat, so it's a bear to get lined up. That goes on/off once a year and no more.

It does look like flipping the pins would solve your problem, but I agree that it shouldn't be a problem. Maybe somebody can tell you if it would sit right if you just put the inside pin below your welded on pins? I think if you can't "fix" the 3-pt and want to move the pins I'd grind/drill them out and use the same holes. But what about the next implement you try to use?



Yeah, after selling my previous tractor and buying the Kubota all of my shafts are about 4 inches short. I really like the tractor, but that's an un-anticipated expense (especially after I went to the larger L so that I could use all of my old implements). Annoying.
Cutter was used when I bought it and had cat 1 pins, but it could be cat 2 implement. It’s an old Woods and no model number to be seen. That may indeed be the problem. Second photo is a little deceiving because there is not enough room to go to the inside with the pins flipped.

I am leaning toward converting it to a slip pin connection. I have the tools and skill to do that, just didn’t have the motivation....until yesterday! I still don’t like the Pat’s option. I just see those breaking or continually getting loose over time - maybe I’m wrong.

I too noticed that my pto shaft and top link was extended further than normal when I hooked up the first time. That surprised me. It isn’t out so far I would have to replace as is now, but it is further than I would prefer. I need to watch it closely to see if it starts to wobble with wear. I’d rather a pto shaft not extend past 50%, it’s at more like 70%. Also makes me wonder what Kubota was thinking with that short top link they included.
 

BobInSD

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L5740
Jun 23, 2020
176
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South Dakota
An older snowblower I have has the pins slide in (so the arm doesn't have to slide out). Mine does both Cat I and Cat II, but you could make it for just your Cat I (or Cat I at Cat II spread). I didn't know what this style is called, so I couldn't google it, but it looks something like the attached. My pin steps down so It is Cat I size at the narrow spread and Cat II at the wider (so the holes in the "forks" are different. Sorry I don't know the right words, let me know if you can't figure out what I'm trying to say. I can take a picture tonight, but somebody that knows what this set up is called can probably post a link before then.

'luck
 

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CKNPRO

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L4701 HST
Apr 16, 2021
31
15
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50
Alabama
An older snowblower I have has the pins slide in (so the arm doesn't have to slide out). Mine does both Cat I and Cat II, but you could make it for just your Cat I (or Cat I at Cat II spread). I didn't know what this style is called, so I couldn't google it, but it looks something like the attached. My pin steps down so It is Cat I size at the narrow spread and Cat II at the wider (so the holes in the "forks" are different. Sorry I don't know the right words, let me know if you can't figure out what I'm trying to say. I can take a picture tonight, but somebody that knows what this set up is called can probably post a link before then.

'luck
I have a box blade set up like that, with a dual sized pin and the split bracket.
 

BobInSD

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L5740
Jun 23, 2020
176
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28
South Dakota
I have a box blade set up like that, with a dual sized pin and the split bracket.
Is that something you could fab up for your mower? Then the lift arms could be lifted up into the slot and wouldn't need spread out to get past the pin? I'd be curious as to a measurement on the spread of your mower pins--I wonder if it was Cat II, which might also explain why the pins needed welded into place.
 

CKNPRO

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Equipment
L4701 HST
Apr 16, 2021
31
15
8
50
Alabama
Is that something you could fab up for your mower? Then the lift arms could be lifted up into the slot and wouldn't need spread out to get past the pin? I'd be curious as to a measurement on the spread of your mower pins--I wonder if it was Cat II, which might also explain why the pins needed welded into place.
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0D7D4C64-4064-4679-92E9-30513F81A333.jpeg



sorta like this? 😁. Problem solved. Functionally ugly, but so is the cutter.
 
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