L35 Third Function

PoTreeBoy

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RaleighL35 posted this thread about adding a section to the Husco backhoe valve to control a hydraulic thumb: https://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/threads/2003-tlb-l35-bt900-backhoe-hydraulic-thumb.56902/

It started me thinking about doing the same thing to the loader valve to add a third function. I'm soliciting ideas on if, why (not), and how. Here's a picture of the existing setup
IMG_20220513_132213261.jpg

I'm thinking I could add a section on the back of the valve - the side showing in the picture. I'd have to extend the plate that valve is mounted to, and come up with the actuator linkage. The advantages I see are saving cost and avoiding having to add a hose and mounting space for a separate third function valve.

Comments anyone? And does anyone have a good source for the longer tie rods I would need? I'd need a set for 3 sections and a set for 7 sections (if I do the thumb). I see the Husco valve sections on eBay, but not the tie rods.
 
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L35

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Is tie rods just the threaded rod that holds the blocks together? If so hardware places sell long lengths of all thread rod you can cut to whatever length you need.
 

PoTreeBoy

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Is tie rods just the threaded rod that holds the blocks together? If so hardware places sell long lengths of all thread rod you can cut to whatever length you need.
I could probably order some higher strength, fine thread from McMaster. I'm not doing it real soon. Checking on eBay, the cheapest valve sections are $279 right now. I'll keep watching.
 

L35

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This place has a bit of everything,

 

TheOldHokie

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I could probably order some higher strength, fine thread from McMaster. I'm not doing it real soon. Checking on eBay, the cheapest valve sections are $279 right now. I'll keep watching.
I assume you have a positive ID on the valve and have located compatible work sections? As long as you don't interfere with the joystick linkage that should work fine. Depending on diameter tie rods get torqued to about 10-15 lb-ft and don't need to be high strength.

Dan
 

PoTreeBoy

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I assume you have a positive ID on the valve and have located compatible work sections? As long as you don't interfere with the joystick linkage that should work fine. Depending on diameter tie rods get torqued to about 10-15 lb-ft and don't need to be high strength.

Dan
I assume you have a positive ID on the valve and have located compatible work sections? As long as you don't interfere with the joystick linkage that should work fine. Depending on diameter tie rods get torqued to about 10-15 lb-ft and don't need to be high strength.

Dan
Based on RaleighL35's post, I downloaded the Husco 5000 manual and measured best I could, so I'm semi-positive. I'd risk $150 or so. The 5002-A1 section is a basic spring-centered valve w/o actuator, check reliefs, etc.

Unfortunately, the lowest price I find right now is about $300, vs $150 a week ago. I don't have an immediate need, so I'm just watching. Somebody on eBay has a complete 4-section valve for $150 I'm tempted to buy, but I don't know what sections are in it. I'm not sure how to identify them even if I had it in-hand.

The tie rods are the least of my concerns. There are 2 sizes on each valve. The Husco kits seem reasonably priced, so I just thought I'd ask.
 

TheOldHokie

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Based on RaleighL35's post, I downloaded the Husco 5000 manual and measured best I could, so I'm semi-positive. I'd risk $150 or so. The 5002-A1 section is a basic spring-centered valve w/o actuator, check reliefs, etc.

Unfortunately, the lowest price I find right now is about $300, vs $150 a week ago. I don't have an immediate need, so I'm just watching. Somebody on eBay has a complete 4-section valve for $150 I'm tempted to buy, but I don't know what sections are in it. I'm not sure how to identify them even if I had it in-hand.

The tie rods are the least of my concerns. There are 2 sizes on each valve. The Husco kits seem reasonably priced, so I just thought I'd ask.
I also looked up that section number and then looked at the Husco 5000 catalog which I already had in my "library" . OEMs generally stamp/cast the individual catalog numbers on the sections. If I were in your position I would be real tempted by that $150 4 section valve. I just looked at the pictures. One section has a plug in one of the work ports - I would suspect spring center single acting. The one with nothing in the work ports is likely spring center DA. The other two have port reliefs and also likely spring center DA. Handle kits are going to add a bit to the cost.

Dan
 

PoTreeBoy

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I also looked up that section number and then looked at the Husco 5000 catalog which I already had in my "library" . OEMs generally stamp/cast the individual catalog numbers on the sections. If I were in your position I would be real tempted by that $150 4 section valve. I just looked at the pictures. One section has a plug in one of the work ports - I would suspect spring center single acting. The one with nothing in the work ports is likely spring center DA. The other two have port reliefs and also likely spring center DA. Handle kits are going to add a bit to the cost.

Dan
I'm risking it. That 150 dollars will be worthless before long anyway, right?
Looking at the port diagrams, it looks like by plugging one work port, a DA 4-way would work single acting. I.E., that could be another DA valve by removing the plug. Does that sound right? I know the book says it's a different spool.
If the sections with port reliefs are DA, that would be a bonus. I think many thumbs use reliefs to prevent the bucket curl from over powering them.
RaleighL35 used BH92 foot control parts on his backhoe. I'd probably cobble something up for a third function. I did see a handle on surplus enter for $68, I think it was, but I'm not sure what orientation I'd need.
Thanks for your support. I hope nobody's expecting to see anything happen real soon.
 

TheOldHokie

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I'm risking it. That 150 dollars will be worthless before long anyway, right?
Looking at the port diagrams, it looks like by plugging one work port, a DA 4-way would work single acting. I.E., that could be another DA valve by removing the plug. Does that sound right? I know the book says it's a different spool.
If the sections with port reliefs are DA, that would be a bonus. I think many thumbs use reliefs to prevent the bucket curl from over powering them.
RaleighL35 used BH92 foot control parts on his backhoe. I'd probably cobble something up for a third function. I did see a handle on surplus enter for $68, I think it was, but I'm not sure what orientation I'd need.
Thanks for your support. I hope nobody's expecting to see anything happen real soon.
A 3 way spool wont connect pressure to the plugged port. That's why you can plug it.

Dan
 

PoTreeBoy

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A 3 way spool wont connect pressure to the plugged port. That's why you can plug it.

Dan
Yeah. I see. If you plug a work port on a DA, you'll get single action, but your pump would be dead headed.
So the odds of that being a DA section are slim.
 

PoTreeBoy

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Update: I received the valve today. It does appear new. I guess that's cosmoline all over it - messy stuff. I've been noodling around and this valve seems to be from a forklift, possibly Hyster. The single-acting section would be for the lift.

It looks just like this picture from the eBay ad.
Screenshot_20220520-151851-284.png


This is the nameplate that was not visible in the ad.
IMG_20220520_110538015.jpg


I googled the number and up pops surpluscenter. They're out of stock but did have a description. Their description listed BSPP ports vs Husco's standard ORP. I have confirmed that they're not ORP, so I'd need different adapters, no big deal.

So, it looks like I have a Husco 5000 series assembly with inlet relief, no power beyond capability, a regular DA section, two DA sections with port relief, and one regular SA section, with no actuators.

That's it for now.
 

TheOldHokie

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Update: I received the valve today. It does appear new. I guess that's cosmoline all over it - messy stuff. I've been noodling around and this valve seems to be from a forklift, possibly Hyster. The single-acting section would be for the lift.

It looks just like this picture from the eBay ad.
View attachment 80377

This is the nameplate that was not visible in the ad.
View attachment 80378

I googled the number and up pops surpluscenter. They're out of stock but did have a description. Their description listed BSPP ports vs Husco's standard ORP. I have confirmed that they're not ORP, so I'd need different adapters, no big deal.

So, it looks like I have a Husco 5000 series assembly with inlet relief, no power beyond capability, a regular DA section, two DA sections with port relief, and one regular SA section, with no actuators.

That's it for now.
You done good. Is there a provision for power beyond in the outlet section?

Dan
 

PoTreeBoy

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You done good. Is there a provision for power beyond in the outlet section?

Dan
Thanks for the encouragement.

No, the outlet section is just a return. Husco calls it a turnaround, I think.

IMG_20220520_182049018~2.jpg


So, Dan, if I take the tie rods loose what surprises are in store? Load check springs and poppets?

They have several more on eBay, if anybody's interested.
 

TheOldHokie

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Thanks for the encouragement.

No, the outlet section is just a return. Husco calls it a turnaround, I think.

View attachment 80392

So, Dan, if I take the tie rods loose what surprises are in store? Load check springs and poppets?

They have several more on eBay, if anybody's interested.
No surprises - just orings between the sections.

Dan

20211029_125521.jpg
 
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PoTreeBoy

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I've almost verified that the ports are 3/8 and 1/2 BSPP, definitely not ORB. I had some NPT fittings and they screw in several threads.

Another non-standard detail is the spool end. The Husco 5000 standard is a fork (i.e. female) while these just have flats on both sides (i.e. male). That's no problem for a custom project, but means these sections might not be exact replacements.

Now a question. I just noted in RaleighL35's picture, below, that the linkage for the new thumb section connects to the bottom while all the original linkages connect to the top, which matches the Husco manual. How is this accomplished? Can you just pull the spool out and turn the spool and mechanism end-for-end?

Screenshot_20220522-214103-578.png
 

TheOldHokie

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I've almost verified that the ports are 3/8 and 1/2 BSPP, definitely not ORB. I had some NPT fittings and they screw in several threads.

Another non-standard detail is the spool end. The Husco 5000 standard is a fork (i.e. female) while these just have flats on both sides (i.e. male). That's no problem for a custom project, but means these sections might not be exact replacements.

Now a question. I just noted in RaleighL35's picture, below, that the linkage for the new thumb section connects to the bottom while all the original linkages connect to the top, which matches the Husco manual. How is this accomplished? Can you just pull the spool out and turn the spool and mechanism end-for-end?

View attachment 80559
Details like the the flats versus splits on the ends of the spool are probably a custom OEM order just like the BSPP porting.

The idea of being able to reverse the spool seems unlikely to me but I am no expert. The catalog does however list left hand sections as a "standard" option and I would guess that is a left hand section. No idea how that is accomplished - consult Husco is the only guidance provided in the catalog,

While I was looking through the catalog I did notice that a "shutoff" plug, p/n 52610, can be used in place of the port relief cartridges. That same plug is used in outlet sections to activate the optional high pressure carry over (power beyond) port.

Dan
 
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PoTreeBoy

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Details like the the flats versus splits on the ends of the spool are probably a custom OEM order just like the BSPP porting.

The idea of being able to reverse the spool seems unlikely to me but I am no expert. The catalog does however list left hand sections as a "standard" option and I would guess that is a left hand section. No idea how that is accomplished - consult Husco is the only guidance provided in the catalog,

While I was looking through the catalog I did notice that a "shutoff" plug, p/n 52610, can be used in place of the port relief cartridges. That same plug is used in outlet sections to activate the optional high pressure carry over (power beyond) port.

Dan
Dan, I think you're right about reversing the hand. There's a note in the manual saying the series spool, I think it was, is the only one that can be swapped. I won't know for sure unless/until I take things apart, but I think the BH900 and TL720 valves are LH, oriented with the stems up. So a std RH section added to the BH will have its stem down, as needed.

The $150 valve I bought I think I have determined is LH. This would be good news for the third function, since its stem would be on top. But on the BH, the linkage would have to done differently from what RaleighL35 did.

I'm trying to document this in case somebody else attempts to add on to their valves.
 

PoTreeBoy

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Today I (almost) finished the valve installation for the L35 third function. Here's where I've left it. You can see the new control lever and capped off hose connections. The lever can be removed by unscrewing it. It'll need some adjustment for length and position, but until I have an implement that needs it, I'll remove and store it. I did test it by swapping the bucket hoses to the new section. Works fine, and the new section definitely doesn't have regen action.
IMG_20220920_184250467.jpg


I did this in two parts - first modifying the valve and mounting plate and then figuring out the linkage.

Here's the linkage with the cover off
IMG_20220920_183247785.jpg

I added a tab and 3/8 rod for the crank to pivot on. It barely clears the joystick linkage. It could have been mounted lower to give more clearance, but I was concerned with weakening the cover when it was trimmed, since it supports one end of the joystick pivot.

You can see where the support plate was extended with two tabs for the longer valve. I used the section from the valve I bought that doesn't have port reliefs. I think the top relief would have interfered with the cover. I made a minor error on the new, longer tie rods. There are 2 - 5/16 NC and 1 - 3/8 NF thread tie rods from the factory. I didn't notice and threaded them all NF, but there aren't any leaks so it must be ok.

I'll add a few pictures on another post.

The advantages I see are no additional hoses etc. to snag, lower cost, and no electrical wiring. The chief disadvantage is an additional stick vs push button convenience.
 
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PoTreeBoy

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Here's what it began as
IMG_20220513_132213261.jpg
Fabricated longer tie rods and ears to extend the support plate
IMG_20220815_103305117.jpg

IMG_20220815_103406659.jpg
Modified the support plate. Ignore the welding and paint - admire the grinding
IMG_20220903_123316223.jpg
Modified valve on modified support plate
IMG_20220903_133427975.jpg
I made a sketch of the linkage so I wouldn't forget, since it would be a couple of weeks delay
IMG_20220906_094739292.jpg
Added bellcrank support tab and shaft. I could definitely have saved time by doing the modifications at the same time, but I was shade treeing it
IMG_20220919_174126516 (1).jpg
Valve remounted, just need to measure and fab linkage.
IMG_20220919_180621469 (1).jpg
The rest of the linkage is shown on the earlier post. The bellcrank pivots on a piece of 3/8 black iron pipe reamed to 1/2" i.d. to take 1/2 x 3/8 bronze bushings.
 
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