Kubota HST concerns.

[TheOldHokie]

Absolutely gears for cutting or plowing big fields. For 4 acres, HST all the way. It’s more of a stop, start, turn situation that the OP is talking about.

The really big field work boys are going CVT. You get the best of both worlds. Since he is a Ford guy maybe he should consider a Boomer 8N

Dan

 

[mcmxi]

Absolutely gears for cutting or plowing big fields. For 4 acres, HST all the way. It’s more of a stop, start, turn situation that the OP is talking about.

I just don't find the geared tractor hard to live with. I sold a trailer today, and in preparation for the potential buyer checking it over, I hooked it up to the M6060 and bought it up the hill to the parking area. NO big deal backing up to the trailer or getting the trailer positioned for ease of inspection. HST is easier for many, but I have no problem doing any of the things I do with the gears and hydraulic shuttle. I actually like having both tractors since variety is the spice of life.

 

[PaulL]

I just don't find the geared tractor hard to live with. I sold a trailer today, and in preparation for the potential buyer checking it over, I hooked it up to the M6060 and bought it up the hill to the parking area. NO big deal backing up to the trailer or getting the trailer positioned for ease of inspection. HST is easier for many, but I have no problem doing any of the things I do with the gears and hydraulic shuttle. I actually like having both tractors since variety is the spice of life.

Dad had (Mum now has) a TEA Ferguson. Gear drive of course. You can do everything with it. Slowly and painfully, but it's a real tractor and back in 1948 when it was new it was magic.

So yes, of course, real farmers have been doing real work with gear driven tractors for 80 years or more. And when you're in bigger machines with a shuttle, you just get used to it.

However, HST machines are a lot easier to use. Easier to nudge, easier to adjust speed. Definitely easier for someone who isn't on it 40 hours a week.

Nothing that the OP is doing seems to benefit from a gear drive. And most of what he describes would benefit from an HST. In that situation, why would you buy a gear drive?

 

[StephenR]

Thanks everyone for the thoughts on the HST tractors.

The Ford tractors I have now are a 3910 and a 3cyl. 4000 with loader. I kept them at my brother's small farm until he passed away this spring.

I will probably go with a HST for my use. Thankfully they are plentiful at decent prices in my area. AND, since I am 68 years old, it won't get worked to death in the next few years.

 

[mcmxi]

Dad had (Mum now has) a TEA Ferguson. Gear drive of course. You can do everything with it. Slowly and painfully, but it's a real tractor and back in 1948 when it was new it was magic.

So yes, of course, real farmers have been doing real work with gear driven tractors for 80 years or more. And when you're in bigger machines with a shuttle, you just get used to it.

However, HST machines are a lot easier to use. Easier to nudge, easier to adjust speed. Definitely easier for someone who isn't on it 40 hours a week.

Nothing that the OP is doing seems to benefit from a gear drive. And most of what he describes would benefit from an HST. In that situation, why would you buy a gear drive?

All I'm suggesting is that the op gets to try both, and compare a modern hydraulic shuttle gear drive to an HST. These things aren't cheap as we know, and buying something but always wishing you'd bought something else kind of sucks. Everyone these days seems to want to be told what to buy rather than put some effort in and figure it out for themselves. I know that most find the HST easier to live with, and it is, but let's not make out that running a gear drive tractor is like juggling five balls while riding a unicycle along a high wire.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

I just don't find the geared tractor hard to live with. I sold a trailer today, and in preparation for the potential buyer checking it over, I hooked it up to the M6060 and bought it up the hill to the parking area. NO big deal backing up to the trailer or getting the trailer positioned for ease of inspection. HST is easier for many, but I have no problem doing any of the things I do with the gears and hydraulic shuttle. I actually like having both tractors since variety is the spice of life.

The hydraulic shuttle make a HUGE improvement on a geared tractor!

 

[mcmxi]

The hydraulic shuttle make a HUGE improvement on a geared tractor!

Absolutely! Maybe the fact that the M6060 is gear drive and is way more tractor than the MX6000 has me twisted around on this, but I would honestly prefer it if the MX were geared with an hydraulic shuttle. I'd feel that way whether it's 1 acre or 1,000 acres that I'm working on. That's just my opinion based on around 800 hours on an HST and 100 hours on a gear drive.

 

[GrizBota]

I dont know what Ford tractors you currently have but I can guess the vintage and whst you are accustomed to. You are not going to find anything that simple in a modern 4WD diesel tractor. Period.

An older L series with gear transmission is about the closest. HSTs are pretty reliable but not something you are likely going to fix yourself. If it breaks Kubota parts and service is EXPENSIVE.

Buy too old and you will be buying a maintence issue, down time, and expense. Newer and you get fewer problems but more complexity in engine controls and safety circuits.

Your sweet spot is probably something in the low hour 15 year old machine world. Probably also want something with some physical size and 30+ HP. Again market in that vintage 4WD machines with loaders is going to be predominantly HST.

Dan

If you decide to go this route (I am biased) the Grand L 30 and 40 series would fit. A half dozen or so sizes in each ranging from 30 to 50 Hp, give or take. No DPF.

 

[PaulL]

Absolutely! Maybe the fact that the M6060 is gear drive and is way more tractor than the MX6000 has me twisted around on this, but I would honestly prefer it if the MX were geared with an hydraulic shuttle. I'd feel that way whether it's 1 acre or 1,000 acres that I'm working on. That's just my opinion based on around 800 hours on an HST and 100 hours on a gear drive.

Dad's big Kioti was a shuttle. 100HP or thereabouts. It was fine to drive, you just had to pick the right gear from the many available so that you could run the speed you wanted at the revs you wanted. For bush hogging a field (we'd call it topping a paddock here in NZ) it works well, but to me less intuitive than an HST. You have to pick a speed and stick to it, if you run into a bumpy patch you can't slow down, that means the implement will also slow down. On an HST the revs stay the same, you ease up on the pedal and you go slower. I really like separating implement speed from ground speed without having to constantly change gear.

Yes, for loader work you can work the shuttle. But you also have to go on and off the clutch to creep (even though he had a creeper gear in it), and for a more inexperienced operator (i.e. me) it's a lot harder to sneak up on something, you feel like you're constantly riding the clutch, and the clutch in one of those isn't light.

Horses for courses. It's not like you can get a 100HP Kioti with an HST. And it pulled a really big mower, and did what it was supposed to do. But if I was buying in a size where I had choice (or a size where most of the available machines already came with HST), I'd get an HST in a flash.

 

[jyoutz]

I just don't find the geared tractor hard to live with. I sold a trailer today, and in preparation for the potential buyer checking it over, I hooked it up to the M6060 and bought it up the hill to the parking area. NO big deal backing up to the trailer or getting the trailer positioned for ease of inspection. HST is easier for many, but I have no problem doing any of the things I do with the gears and hydraulic shuttle. I actually like having both tractors since variety is the spice of life.

I had a geared tractor for 22 years and yes I did everything with it and didn’t know any different. Then I bought my current HST machine and wonder why I hadn’t done that sooner. Especially the infinite speed control for tilling and rotary cutting around trees and other tight spots.

 

[mcmxi]

I had a geared tractor for 22 years and yes I did every with it and didn’t know any different. Then I bought my current HST machine and wonder why I hadn’t done that sooner. Especially the infinite speed control for tilling and rotary cutting around trees and other tight spots.

Did that tractor have hydraulic shuttle? As for fine control, the M has a hand throttle and a real accelerator with 12 forward and 12 reverse gears so it's not hard to modulate speed for the task at hand.

Regardless, it seems that the majority are better served by an HST and I'll remain in the minority. But as @GrizBota said, if the op can afford it, an L60 of some kind would be great.

It would be interesting to hear from farmers who do lots of work around animals such as dairy cows, where they have to go in and out of sheds a lot both mucking out and placing food. Telehandlers have become popular in Europe such as those made by Manitou, but I haven't kept up on the transmissions in those. Fairly sure that they have a forward/reverse shuttle in many models.

 

[TheOldHokie]

This has gone way off track so I will push it a bit further.

Shuttle shifts allow a change in direction They do not allow a change in gear selection. Gears are tupically arranged in ranges. if you need 2F in low range for forward operation you are stuck with 2R in low range when backing up. Your only speed control is engine RPM.

An HST is less limiting. Like a shuttle shift the "gears" are arranged in ranges but there are an "infinite" number of gears in each range. Like a shuttle shiftb you can easily change direction in any range. Unlike a shuttle shift you can also easily move up and down through those "infinite" number of "gears" and at the same time vary engine RPM. That lets you creep going forward, drag race in reverse, and vice versa. The cost you pay for tha added control is more power loss through the transmission.

In the big agricultural tractor class we see a different technology. Those machines employ hydraulic power shift or CVT transmissions. Both add HST type flexibility without the powerbhit of an HST.

Power shift employs hydraulically shifted gears coupled with computer controlled gear and RPM selection. The operater simply inputs desired speed and direction and the power train controller automagically selects the gear and engine RPM best suited for the current draft and traction conditions. If ground conditions change the controller senses it and automagically changes the selections to match. Fancy machines xan even be programmed to add fuel economy to the mix. Its fly by wire for tractors.

A CVT is the same basic concept but using some form of CVT transmission instead of hydraulically power shifted gears. In some CVT designs there really is no difference and its simply marketing labels.

None of this has any bearing on the OPs original concern. He wants something he can fix himself and that goes out the door the instant the OEM employs any sort of computer controls. Welcome to the current millineum.

Dan