Kubota 400 ci backfire issue

CiscoRanger

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L4150DT / BF900
Oct 3, 2022
243
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Texas
UPDATED: Alright...I just zoomed in on this gauge. This isnt the right gauge for your fuel pressure. So lets start over.

The gauge either moves clockwise or counterclockwise. Counter clockwise to the bottom of the dial is vacuum - 0-30" of vacuum. The top is fuel pressure for carbs only (low pressure, usually between 0-10 or 15 PSI. It moves clockwise for pressure 0-10PSI. This is not an EFI gauge that will go much higher PSI, so we cant tell what your actual pressure is. And you can ruin that gauge pushing it past that stop at 10 psi.

On your OHC test...looks like you're pulling 13" of vacuum. Not 35PSI. As long as the dial went counter clockwise as you were running under load, the vacuum is coming from the airbox.

On your fuel pressure test, you're pushing past the 10 psi stop, all the way to that mark, because it isnt the right gauge. Go back and look at the guy's video. It shows a gauge that goes to 140 PSI.
 
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CiscoRanger

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L4150DT / BF900
Oct 3, 2022
243
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Texas
Yes, but I did notice that is kind of pulsated also after getting it to operational temp.

No on taking the injector apart.

My videos are on facebook so if not subscribed or opened maybe that is why.
1.Nice. Good pressure on the pump. Regarding the gauge, usually the high pressure fuel test gauges have a release on them so you aren’t having to spray gas on yourself when you disconnect the gauge from a pressurized fuel line.looks like it worked fine tho. Did y’all take it out running to see if pressure held while under driving load, and what the gauge said during bogging and back firing?

2. in your video above where you’re driving it during The ohc breather test. Did you have your foot to the floor the whole time or did it gag down and backfire when you let off? Trying to determine if it seems like it’s hitting a certain rpm and bogging and won’t go any higher, Or if it’s bogging and backfiring when u let off the gas.

3.as a side thought, any idea if this has a speed limiter if you aren’t wearing a seatbelt? - i didn’t see a sensor in the parts diagram, or anything in the operators manual, so I doubt this is it, but are there any wires coming off the seat belt. Seat belt light on the dash? Have you driven it with the belt on?

4. did you ever get/change a new air filter?
 

Rollo

Member

Equipment
Kubota RTV400ci
Mar 18, 2023
31
3
8
Michigan
1.Nice. Good pressure on the pump. Regarding the gauge, usually the high pressure fuel test gauges have a release on them so you aren’t having to spray gas on yourself when you disconnect the gauge from a pressurized fuel line.looks like it worked fine tho. Did y’all take it out running to see if pressure held while under driving load, and what the gauge said during bogging and back firing?

2. in your video above where you’re driving it during The ohc breather test. Did you have your foot to the floor the whole time or did it gag down and backfire when you let off? Trying to determine if it seems like it’s hitting a certain rpm and bogging and won’t go any higher, Or if it’s bogging and backfiring when u let off the gas.

3.as a side thought, any idea if this has a speed limiter if you aren’t wearing a seatbelt? - i didn’t see a sensor in the parts diagram, or anything in the operators manual, so I doubt this is it, but are there any wires coming off the seat belt. Seat belt light on the dash? Have you driven it with the belt on?

4. did you ever get/change a new air filter?
1. I deliver gas for a living and it wont be the last time I get gas on me. But I have gas soak pads that are used specifically for gas so just a little gets away. I did not take it out running with it since my set up is not that secure. I will see if I can video that today. Well I ran it ansd running full throttle psi was 38-39 and did not change when backfire happens.

2. Foot to the floor and keep it there until it opens back up. It does also backfire a little when starting out going slower to get on the road. Way less of a backfire when starting with less fuel going to the engine.
3. Not sure on speed limiter. I have not seen anything relevant regarding a limiter. Just looked and do not see any wires.
4. Yes both filters, they were never changed from what it looks like. One for the transmission also. The engine is only 5 years old and it cost them $5,000 to have it replaced. It was mostly driven a hundred yards at a time.
 
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CiscoRanger

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L4150DT / BF900
Oct 3, 2022
243
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Texas
So to re-assess where it's at:

The Side by side starts fine, but misfires, only gets to about 16mph (of 25 top speed), lost top-end power, really misfires at the top end, and has a new plug that is already black and fouled. Sound about right?

The items in bold red text is what I would personally check next...because they dont really require any significant teardown. I'd also encourage you to get the workshop service manual for this thing from a reputable website.

Airflow -
- Cleaned replaced engine air filter ✔
- Cleaned air box and dont think there are any restrictions keeping air from entering the box ✔
- Cleaned the hose connecting the airbox to the throttle body ✔
- Throttle body blade/accelerator linkage seems to move responsively and be in good working order ❓
- Exhaust/Muffler - Any concern this is potentially restricted ❓
- Air sensor and connections clean ❓


Fuel -
- Replaced Fuel ✔
- Fuel Pressure at key on/Idle/Rev in Idle good ✔
- Fuel Pressure under load and when it is misfiring - In progress
- Fuel Injector connection clean ❓
- Fuel injector spraying well and not clogged ❓


Ignition -
- Replaced plug ✔
- Set correct plug gap ❓
- Plug connections solid ❓
-Battery cables and ground connections clean ❓
- Ignition Sensors (air/throttle position/oil temp) test good ❓
- ECM/Coil/timing system etc test good ❓

Engine -
- Compression (Hard to test due to camshaft option with decompressor) ❓
- Valves leaking/dirty (buildup, or lash) ❓
-Crank/camshaft timing/timing chain/tensioner ❓
- New oil ✔
 
Last edited:

Rollo

Member

Equipment
Kubota RTV400ci
Mar 18, 2023
31
3
8
Michigan
So to re-assess where it's at:

The Side by side starts fine, but misfires, only gets to about 16mph (of 25 top speed), lost top-end power, really misfires at the top end, and has a new plug that is already black and fouled. Sound about right? Correct and changed plug at least four times.

The items in bold red text is what I would personally check next...because they dont really require any significant teardown. I'd also encourage you to get the workshop service manual for this thing from a reputable website.

Airflow -
- Cleaned replaced engine air filter ✔
- Cleaned air box and dont think there are any restrictions keeping air from entering the box ✔
- Cleaned the hose connecting the airbox to the throttle body ✔
- Throttle body blade/accelerator linkage seems to move responsively and be in good working order ❓ yes and I white greased each moving location.
- Exhaust/Muffler - Any concern this is potentially restricted ❓I feel output from the tail pipe.
- Air sensor and connections clean ❓ Not 100% on this one.


Fuel -
- Replaced Fuel ✔
- Fuel Pressure at key on/Idle/Rev in Idle good ✔
- Fuel Pressure under load and when it is misfiring - In progress no change stayed about 38-39 psi.
- Fuel Injector connection clean ❓I sprayed seafoam into hose feeding throttle body. Let is smoke to clean what I could without tear down. It stalled out and waited about five minutes, then ran it until after it stopped smoking.
- Fuel injector spraying well and not clogged ❓I have not checked that yet, watching the video might be a tad over my experience doing it out of machine. Will have to watch video again.


Ignition -
- Replaced plug ✔
- Set correct plug gap ❓Yes tried different gaps, .26-.28.
- Plug connections solid
❓Yes plug wire is good. Tested for good and constant spark.
-Battery cables and ground connections clean ❓ Have not taken all the grounds apart and cleaned them yet, but look good as I can visually see. Battery is good.
- Ignition Sensors (air/throttle position/oil temp) test good ❓Have not tested oil pressure switch but light does not come on, checked temp sensor connection seemed fine. How do I check those? ohm if two wire? throttle position not sure how to do that one.
- ECM/Coil/timing system etc test good ❓ No coil, have not checked timing, since it take a bit of teardown.

Engine -
- Compression (Hard to test due to camshaft option with decompressor) ❓Correct but not sure if next answer helps this.
- Valves leaking/dirty (buildup, or lash) ❓when I did the incorrect OHV vaccum test it did not lose any pressure for nine minutes and I quit waiting and went on. Not sure if that help on your question.
-Crank/camshaft timing/timing chain/tensioner ❓Have not got that far.
- New oil ✔ three times because I also put a little mystery oil in. Then changed it out twice.

I just took it for a ride and backfired on full throttle and I left off at about half throttle and it backfired there also just not as many times as high throttle. I also ohmed out the temp sensor at the plug and it tested first time at 600 then 900-1000 ohms. ALso once in a while while going top speed, it seems that if I hit a hard bump it backfires. It might be my imagination and perfect timing when I hit the bump.
 
Last edited:

Thatoneguy

Member

Equipment
Kubota b7200
May 20, 2022
67
12
8
Southern California
This reminds me of my boat a few years ago. It would start, idle, and run relatively smooth until it got to around 4k rpm's and it would flat line.. after 2 seasons, it just wouldnt start anymore. Turns out cylinders 2,4,6, and 8 were not the correct size and placed into a bored cylinder. The rings had a gap... how it ran to begin with is beyond me but it produced enough compression to fire but not enough to spin it up to 5200 like it should have... if your engine is equipped with a decompression system is there a way to disconnect that and compression is like any other engine?
 
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CiscoRanger

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L4150DT / BF900
Oct 3, 2022
243
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Texas
This reminds me of my boat a few years ago. It would start, idle, and run relatively smooth until it got to around 4k rpm's and it would flat line.. after 2 seasons, it just wouldnt start anymore. Turns out cylinders 2,4,6, and 8 were not the correct size and placed into a bored cylinder. The rings had a gap... how it ran to begin with is beyond me but it produced enough compression to fire but not enough to spin it up to 5200 like it should have... if your engine is equipped with a decompression system is there a way to disconnect that and compression is like any other engine?
Yeah that decompressor makes this job more difficult for sure. And I’ve wondered a few times during this if it’s stuck and not rotating out of the way with centrifugal force like it is supposed to.
 

Vigo

Well-known member

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B6100, B8200
Jan 9, 2022
595
339
63
San Antonio Texas
Wish i had noticed this earlier. Oh well..

So, first thing is 'starts well but then runs poorly' is sort of to be expected because the computer is using fixed parameters to start the engine (ie it ignores sensors during cranking other than sampling temp and barometric pressure right before cranking). Once it's running, it runs off whatever the current sensor values are. So it's normal in this scenario to have it start normally even though it runs poorly. It does serve as evidence that the computer is seeing a bad/incorrect input, because if it was a mechanical issue it would likely have some effect at startup (ie low compression motors are harder to start, etc). This is very likely just a sensor reading issue.

According to the PDF posted back in the beginning, this thing has very few inputs. 'Engine' Temp, manifold pressure, and maybe intake air temp (such a sensor was mentioned multiple times but noone posted any pics or links of said thing actually existing).

The symptoms are being caused by unburned fuel, aka a rich condition. The dark/fouled spark plug is a dead giveaway of that, but the other symptoms match as well. An engine that cannot burn all the fuel it is given will have some fuel going out the exhaust, which periodically ignites either because of the temperature of the exhaust manifold/piping (getting worse as it gets hotter was mentioned and correlates to this) or because of imperfect sealing of the exhaust valve letting combustion in the cylinder ignite unburned gas in the exhaust tract.

Both the temp sensor and the manifold pressure sensor could cause it to run rich.

Temp sensors are usually 'thermistors' which means resistors which change resistance with temperature. These are two wire sensors. Typically they are NTC ie Negative Temperature Coefficient thermistors which means as temp goes up, resistance goes down. This creates the side effect of a connection problem or open circuit (ie really high resistance) appear to the computer as being 'cold'. Engines need more fuel when cold, mostly because cold fuel is harder to atomize and vaporize. So, when the computer thinks it's cold, it injects more fuel, doing the same thing a choke would do mechanically on a carburetor. SO, high resistance or open circuit on the temp sensor circuit could cause a rich issue. There may be a resistance vs temp chart available in the service information that would allow you to test the sensor's resistance vs its temp and see if it matches, but an even easier test is this: if you unplug it while the engine is running and it doesn't run any worse, that means it already had high resistance in that circuit, i.e bad connection or sensor is broken. It should run noticeably worse if that sensor/circuit is functional and you unplug it!

Intake air sensors are usually PTC which means as temp goes up, so does resistance. So, a temp sensor with a bad connection/open circuit would make it look hotter (less fuel, not more, doesn't match the symptoms). But, intake air temp sensors have much lower 'authority' in the system and only cause marginal changes to fueling. Never such a big change that the spark plug fouls, no matter what the signal looks like, hot or cold. So, not the problem here even if the air temp sensor thinks it's negative 1 million degrees. It just won't cause this.

The map sensor is what's called a voltage divider. This is a 3-wire sensor. What it does is receive a 'reference voltage' from the computer, usually 5v, and then 'divide' it or split it into two voltages, one of which goes back to the computer as a signal, and the rest of the voltage gets dumped overboard to a ground wire. Map sensors in particular usually read low voltage at low pressure and high voltage at high pressure. But, if you think in terms of manifold vacuum it's opposite: High vacuum/idle = low voltage, Low vacuum/flooring it = high voltage. Usually on a 5v sensor the range of the signal is 0.5-1.2v at idle, and a max of around 4.5v at wide open throttle. Manifold pressure is the 'load' signal to the computer. You need less gas when throttle is closed and more gas when throttle is open, and manifold pressure correlates directly to how open or closed the throttle plate is.


One thing that can happen is a vacuum leak. A vacuum leak results in lower vacuum/higher pressure than would otherwise be present at that rpm and throttle opening, so it would result in too much fuel for those conditions, causing it to run rich. But, i suspect a vacuum leak is not the issue here because of one thing that is OFTEN forgotten. Vacuum leaks are powered by..vacuum! When you floor it, you don't HAVE vacuum, and you don't have a vacuum leak anymore either, for as long as you're flooring it! So if the problem doesn't noticeably improve almost to the point of going away completely when you floor it, then it isn't being caused by a vacuum leak, at least not directly. Most fuel injections can 'learn' a fuel 'trim' setting which might still apply at wide open throttle, but this is a VERY basic fuel injection system and it does not have an oxygen sensor to let it determine a 'trim' value so while not necessarily true on a car, in THIS case if you had a vacuum leak causing a problem, it would go away immediately when you floored it and sure wouldn't be costing you 10mph of top speed!

Another thing that can happen is the reference voltage can be lower than it's supposed to be because of a bad connection or resistance in the wiring. If a map sensor got 4v instead of 5v, that would skew all the readings to be lower. BUT, lower means less fuel. So it would run LEAN while flooring it, not rich! So, not a problem here. Same is true of bad connection dropping voltage in the signal wire to computer.. would result in LESS fuel, so it doesn't match the symptoms here.

Another thing that can happen is bad connection or high resistance in the ground wire. That would skew all the readings on the signal wire UP, making it run richer. This is a plausible explanation for the symptoms here.

It's also possible the sensor itself could 'break' and read wrong even though nothing is wrong with the wiring. :)

So in terms of easiness, i would unplug the engine temp sensor while it's running and see what changes. If NOTHING changes, that circuit is likely your problem, whether it's the sensor itself or a connector/wiring issue. If that doesn't work, you're probably going to have to get out a multimeter and see if you can find a problem with the map sensor or its wiring. Unfortunately you probably can't just unplug that one without the engine stalling, so the test methods require multimeter knowledge. About the only thing you might be able to do without a multimeter on that one, is see if the sensor comes off the throttle body. If you can leave the sensor plugged into its wiring but unplug it from vacuum, it will immediately read as if you're flooring it. So if you can pull it out of its little vacuum hole while the engine is running, it should immediately bog out and if you're idling it will probably stall. However, if you pull it out and it DOESNT run any worse, well it wasn't doing anything helpful to begin with and now you're onto something!

Hope that helps..
 
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CiscoRanger

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L4150DT / BF900
Oct 3, 2022
243
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43
Texas
Wish i had noticed this earlier. Oh well..

So, first thing is 'starts well but then runs poorly' is sort of to be expected because the computer is using fixed parameters to start the engine (ie it ignores sensors during cranking other than sampling temp and barometric pressure right before cranking). Once it's running, it runs off whatever the current sensor values are. So it's normal in this scenario to have it start normally even though it runs poorly. It does serve as evidence that the computer is seeing a bad/incorrect input, because if it was a mechanical issue it would likely have some effect at startup (ie low compression motors are harder to start, etc). This is very likely just a sensor reading issue.

According to the PDF posted back in the beginning, this thing has very few inputs. 'Engine' Temp, manifold pressure, and maybe intake air temp (such a sensor was mentioned multiple times but noone posted any pics or links of said thing actually existing).

The symptoms are being caused by unburned fuel, aka a rich condition. The dark/fouled spark plug is a dead giveaway of that, but the other symptoms match as well. An engine that cannot burn all the fuel it is given will have some fuel going out the exhaust, which periodically ignites either because of the temperature of the exhaust manifold/piping (getting worse as it gets hotter was mentioned and correlates to this) or because of imperfect sealing of the exhaust valve letting combustion in the cylinder ignite unburned gas in the exhaust tract.

Both the temp sensor and the manifold pressure sensor could cause it to run rich.

Temp sensors are usually 'thermistors' which means resistors which change resistance with temperature. These are two wire sensors. Typically they are NTC ie Negative Temperature Coefficient thermistors which means as temp goes up, resistance goes down. This creates the side effect of a connection problem or open circuit (ie really high resistance) appear to the computer as being 'cold'. Engines need more fuel when cold, mostly because cold fuel is harder to atomize and vaporize. So, when the computer thinks it's cold, it injects more fuel, doing the same thing a choke would do mechanically on a carburetor. SO, high resistance or open circuit on the temp sensor circuit could cause a rich issue. There may be a resistance vs temp chart available in the service information that would allow you to test the sensor's resistance vs its temp and see if it matches, but an even easier test is this: if you unplug it while the engine is running and it doesn't run any worse, that means it already had high resistance in that circuit, i.e bad connection or sensor is broken. It should run noticeably worse if that sensor/circuit is functional and you unplug it!

Intake air sensors are usually PTC which means as temp goes up, so does resistance. So, a temp sensor with a bad connection/open circuit would make it look hotter (less fuel, not more, doesn't match the symptoms). But, intake air temp sensors have much lower 'authority' in the system and only cause marginal changes to fueling. Never such a big change that the spark plug fouls, no matter what the signal looks like, hot or cold. So, not the problem here even if the air temp sensor thinks it's negative 1 million degrees. It just won't cause this.

The map sensor is what's called a voltage divider. This is a 3-wire sensor. What it does is receive a 'reference voltage' from the computer, usually 5v, and then 'divide' it or split it into two voltages, one of which goes back to the computer as a signal, and the rest of the voltage gets dumped overboard to a ground wire. Map sensors in particular usually read low voltage at low pressure and high voltage at high pressure. But, if you think in terms of manifold vacuum it's opposite: High vacuum/idle = low voltage, Low vacuum/flooring it = high voltage. Usually on a 5v sensor the range of the signal is 0.5-1.2v at idle, and a max of around 4.5v at wide open throttle. Manifold pressure is the 'load' signal to the computer. You need less gas when throttle is closed and more gas when throttle is open, and manifold pressure correlates directly to how open or closed the throttle plate is.


One thing that can happen is a vacuum leak. A vacuum leak results in lower vacuum/higher pressure than would otherwise be present at that rpm and throttle opening, so it would result in too much fuel for those conditions, causing it to run rich. But, i suspect a vacuum leak is not the issue here because of one thing that is OFTEN forgotten. Vacuum leaks are powered by..vacuum! When you floor it, you don't HAVE vacuum, and you don't have a vacuum leak anymore either, for as long as you're flooring it! So if the problem doesn't noticeably improve almost to the point of going away completely when you floor it, then it isn't being caused by a vacuum leak, at least not directly. Most fuel injections can 'learn' a fuel 'trim' setting which might still apply at wide open throttle, but this is a VERY basic fuel injection system and it does not have an oxygen sensor to let it determine a 'trim' value so while not necessarily true on a car, in THIS case if you had a vacuum leak causing a problem, it would go away immediately when you floored it and sure wouldn't be costing you 10mph of top speed!

Another thing that can happen is the reference voltage can be lower than it's supposed to be because of a bad connection or resistance in the wiring. If a map sensor got 4v instead of 5v, that would skew all the readings to be lower. BUT, lower means less fuel. So it would run LEAN while flooring it, not rich! So, not a problem here. Same is true of bad connection dropping voltage in the signal wire to computer.. would result in LESS fuel, so it doesn't match the symptoms here.

Another thing that can happen is bad connection or high resistance in the ground wire. That would skew all the readings on the signal wire UP, making it run richer. This is a plausible explanation for the symptoms here.

It's also possible the sensor itself could 'break' and read wrong even though nothing is wrong with the wiring. :)

So in terms of easiness, i would unplug the engine temp sensor while it's running and see what changes. If NOTHING changes, that circuit is likely your problem, whether it's the sensor itself or a connector/wiring issue. If that doesn't work, you're probably going to have to get out a multimeter and see if you can find a problem with the map sensor or its wiring. Unfortunately you probably can't just unplug that one without the engine stalling, so the test methods require multimeter knowledge. About the only thing you might be able to do without a multimeter on that one, is see if the sensor comes off the throttle body. If you can leave the sensor plugged into its wiring but unplug it from vacuum, it will immediately read as if you're flooring it. So if you can pull it out of its little vacuum hole while the engine is running, it should immediately bog out and if you're idling it will probably stall. However, if you pull it out and it DOESNT run any worse, well it wasn't doing anything helpful to begin with and now you're onto something!

Hope that helps..
I love answers like this.

1684189903958.png
 
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cthomas

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LX2610 HSDC
Jan 1, 2017
863
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La Farge Wi
Does it have a plugged spark arrestor within the muffler? As in a car it will sometimes do what you are describing with a plugged cat. convertor. Also the air temp sensor can be cleaned with MAF cleaner just make sure it is unplugged(and wait an hour after spraying.
 
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Thatoneguy

Member

Equipment
Kubota b7200
May 20, 2022
67
12
8
Southern California
I was just about to say that same thing... jk

On a serious note, that was impressive. I love answers broken down like that. Thank you

Wish i had noticed this earlier. Oh well..

So, first thing is 'starts well but then runs poorly' is sort of to be expected because the computer is using fixed parameters to start the engine (ie it ignores sensors during cranking other than sampling temp and barometric pressure right before cranking). Once it's running, it runs off whatever the current sensor values are. So it's normal in this scenario to have it start normally even though it runs poorly. It does serve as evidence that the computer is seeing a bad/incorrect input, because if it was a mechanical issue it would likely have some effect at startup (ie low compression motors are harder to start, etc). This is very likely just a sensor reading issue.

According to the PDF posted back in the beginning, this thing has very few inputs. 'Engine' Temp, manifold pressure, and maybe intake air temp (such a sensor was mentioned multiple times but noone posted any pics or links of said thing actually existing).

The symptoms are being caused by unburned fuel, aka a rich condition. The dark/fouled spark plug is a dead giveaway of that, but the other symptoms match as well. An engine that cannot burn all the fuel it is given will have some fuel going out the exhaust, which periodically ignites either because of the temperature of the exhaust manifold/piping (getting worse as it gets hotter was mentioned and correlates to this) or because of imperfect sealing of the exhaust valve letting combustion in the cylinder ignite unburned gas in the exhaust tract.

Both the temp sensor and the manifold pressure sensor could cause it to run rich.

Temp sensors are usually 'thermistors' which means resistors which change resistance with temperature. These are two wire sensors. Typically they are NTC ie Negative Temperature Coefficient thermistors which means as temp goes up, resistance goes down. This creates the side effect of a connection problem or open circuit (ie really high resistance) appear to the computer as being 'cold'. Engines need more fuel when cold, mostly because cold fuel is harder to atomize and vaporize. So, when the computer thinks it's cold, it injects more fuel, doing the same thing a choke would do mechanically on a carburetor. SO, high resistance or open circuit on the temp sensor circuit could cause a rich issue. There may be a resistance vs temp chart available in the service information that would allow you to test the sensor's resistance vs its temp and see if it matches, but an even easier test is this: if you unplug it while the engine is running and it doesn't run any worse, that means it already had high resistance in that circuit, i.e bad connection or sensor is broken. It should run noticeably worse if that sensor/circuit is functional and you unplug it!

Intake air sensors are usually PTC which means as temp goes up, so does resistance. So, a temp sensor with a bad connection/open circuit would make it look hotter (less fuel, not more, doesn't match the symptoms). But, intake air temp sensors have much lower 'authority' in the system and only cause marginal changes to fueling. Never such a big change that the spark plug fouls, no matter what the signal looks like, hot or cold. So, not the problem here even if the air temp sensor thinks it's negative 1 million degrees. It just won't cause this.

The map sensor is what's called a voltage divider. This is a 3-wire sensor. What it does is receive a 'reference voltage' from the computer, usually 5v, and then 'divide' it or split it into two voltages, one of which goes back to the computer as a signal, and the rest of the voltage gets dumped overboard to a ground wire. Map sensors in particular usually read low voltage at low pressure and high voltage at high pressure. But, if you think in terms of manifold vacuum it's opposite: High vacuum/idle = low voltage, Low vacuum/flooring it = high voltage. Usually on a 5v sensor the range of the signal is 0.5-1.2v at idle, and a max of around 4.5v at wide open throttle. Manifold pressure is the 'load' signal to the computer. You need less gas when throttle is closed and more gas when throttle is open, and manifold pressure correlates directly to how open or closed the throttle plate is.


One thing that can happen is a vacuum leak. A vacuum leak results in lower vacuum/higher pressure than would otherwise be present at that rpm and throttle opening, so it would result in too much fuel for those conditions, causing it to run rich. But, i suspect a vacuum leak is not the issue here because of one thing that is OFTEN forgotten. Vacuum leaks are powered by..vacuum! When you floor it, you don't HAVE vacuum, and you don't have a vacuum leak anymore either, for as long as you're flooring it! So if the problem doesn't noticeably improve almost to the point of going away completely when you floor it, then it isn't being caused by a vacuum leak, at least not directly. Most fuel injections can 'learn' a fuel 'trim' setting which might still apply at wide open throttle, but this is a VERY basic fuel injection system and it does not have an oxygen sensor to let it determine a 'trim' value so while not necessarily true on a car, in THIS case if you had a vacuum leak causing a problem, it would go away immediately when you floored it and sure wouldn't be costing you 10mph of top speed!

Another thing that can happen is the reference voltage can be lower than it's supposed to be because of a bad connection or resistance in the wiring. If a map sensor got 4v instead of 5v, that would skew all the readings to be lower. BUT, lower means less fuel. So it would run LEAN while flooring it, not rich! So, not a problem here. Same is true of bad connection dropping voltage in the signal wire to computer.. would result in LESS fuel, so it doesn't match the symptoms here.

Another thing that can happen is bad connection or high resistance in the ground wire. That would skew all the readings on the signal wire UP, making it run richer. This is a plausible explanation for the symptoms here.

It's also possible the sensor itself could 'break' and read wrong even though nothing is wrong with the wiring. :)

So in terms of easiness, i would unplug the engine temp sensor while it's running and see what changes. If NOTHING changes, that circuit is likely your problem, whether it's the sensor itself or a connector/wiring issue. If that doesn't work, you're probably going to have to get out a multimeter and see if you can find a problem with the map sensor or its wiring. Unfortunately you probably can't just unplug that one without the engine stalling, so the test methods require multimeter knowledge. About the only thing you might be able to do without a multimeter on that one, is see if the sensor comes off the throttle body. If you can leave the sensor plugged into its wiring but unplug it from vacuum, it will immediately read as if you're flooring it. So if you can pull it out of its little vacuum hole while the engine is running, it should immediately bog out and if you're idling it will probably stall. However, if you pull it out and it DOESNT run any worse, well it wasn't doing anything helpful to begin with and now you're onto something!

Hope that helps..
 
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Rollo

Member

Equipment
Kubota RTV400ci
Mar 18, 2023
31
3
8
Michigan
Covering all the wires. Ok number 500 and 290 oil pressure switch in the parts list on crankcase page, I unplugged it while idling and it seemed to not change other than the light came on the dash.

Temp sensor (70) on magneto page, idiling did not change when I unplugged it. SO I cleaned it with MAF cleaner and waited as suggested, then started it with it unplugged and not touching engine and it ran rough. Put it back together and it idles normal. Then I ran it and like normal it still backfires way worse when it heats up it seems. I am not sure regarding the map sensor.

I also changed 010 on fuel system page. The hose on fuel system that goes from the throttle body to the charcoal box had gas/oil in it so I replaced it. Also under the throttle body there is a hole that had the same gas/oil mixture coming out of it. It is not pouring out, just noticed it is wet. See picture..

Update: I cleaned five grounds, three next to the ECM and the battery ground. So far those are the grounds I have found. Cleaned one that went from chassis to motor also.

I sure hope this is done soon. It is gardening time, beekeeping time and working 12-14 hours a day at my job. Getting too old for this stuff. lol
But I thank you all for your help.
 

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Matias

New member

Equipment
Kubota RTV400CI
Jun 3, 2023
2
1
1
Blue Ridge, GA
Any updates on this? Having same issue with backfiring and low power at higher speeds. Changed engine oil & filter, changed transmission and diff oil, both air filters, spark plug (BR6HS), fuel injector (FBYCG50), added inline fuel filter, and swapped out battery. Slight improvement, but issue is still there and worsened again.

I think next I'll try having a multimeter connected to battery to monitor alternator output at high speed.
Would it be possible to bolt on an external fuel pump (like this https://a.co/d/cauOtgU) instead of potentially spending $100-200 on original internal? Fuel pressure looks good, but I'm running out of things to try.
 

Rollo

Member

Equipment
Kubota RTV400ci
Mar 18, 2023
31
3
8
Michigan
Any updates on this? Having same issue with backfiring and low power at higher speeds. Changed engine oil & filter, changed transmission and diff oil, both air filters, spark plug (BR6HS), fuel injector (FBYCG50), added inline fuel filter, and swapped out battery. Slight improvement, but issue is still there and worsened again.

I think next I'll try having a multimeter connected to battery to monitor alternator output at high speed.
Would it be possible to bolt on an external fuel pump (like this https://a.co/d/cauOtgU) instead of potentially spending $100-200 on original internal? Fuel pressure looks good, but I'm running out of things to try.
If that helps let me know. But I tested mine and it seemed to be in spec, but still having issues.
 

Rollo

Member

Equipment
Kubota RTV400ci
Mar 18, 2023
31
3
8
Michigan
Did you compression test or cyl leak down test it? If the Intake valve is sticking open that will show you. one of the ways I dealt with a crudded up sticking intake valve is

-pull the spark plug
-put the motor at top dead center Then advance it 90 degrees by hand. The intake valve should be open and piston halfway down.
-fill the cyl thru the spark plug hole with sea foam or marvel
-reinstall spark plug and by hand rotate the engine 45 degrees opposite it’s normal direction ( halfway back towards top dead center).
-let it soak overnight or however long you want.
-pull the spark plug and crank it to blow out that oil.

this essentially lets the cleaner soak the open valve and the valve seat at the same time.
I did that but let it soak for a week and it is still backfiring. I now need the gap for the valves. Having a heck of a time finding them. Not sure if they are .015 and .020, want to make sure before putting it back together. Anyone help with that, since dealer is not open?
 

Rollo

Member

Equipment
Kubota RTV400ci
Mar 18, 2023
31
3
8
Michigan
I did that but let it soak for a week and it is still backfiring. I now need the gap for the valves. Having a heck of a time finding them. Not sure if they are .015 and .020 or .15 or .20, want to make sure before putting it back together. Anyone help with that, since dealer is not open?
 

Rollo

Member

Equipment
Kubota RTV400ci
Mar 18, 2023
31
3
8
Michigan
I think it is .0047 - .0059 so I put it at .005 and have to order gaskets to put it back together. I will also call the Kabota dealer and check gap to make sure. It was quite a bit off comparatively speaking. I will update next weekend.
 

Matias

New member

Equipment
Kubota RTV400CI
Jun 3, 2023
2
1
1
Blue Ridge, GA
Looks like it's .11 to .16 mm (.0044 to .0063 in) for both. Screenshot attached.

Also, here is a link to the workshop (service) manual: https://www.kubota.cz/data/soubor/WSM_RTV400_EN.pdf

I'm having the same issue here. So far I've done engine oil change, transmission/differential oil change, new spark plug, new fuel injector, both air filters, added inline fuel filter, and a new 300CCA battery. The issue persists.

Would be great to hear if the valve clearance adjustment fixes this. Please send updates!
 

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