issue with kubota starting.

[Dave_eng]

Thank you for posting those diagrams. If you look closely, they both show one of the two coils shorted across by a wire.

This confirms the error I was referring to. If each side of a coil is connected to the same point, electrically it can not operate.

So the diagrams are obviously in error, if the explanation of operation is correct.

Henro

Please look closely at the attached headlight wiring. This is an exact parallel to the engine stop solenoid.

The headlight bulb has two filaments within one glass envelope. The filaments are actually coils of wire which glow when current flows through them.

One filament is rated for 60 watts which is the high beam. The other filament is rated for 55 watts which is the low beam.

Both filaments share the same ground path but each has its own power wire.

Think of the high beam filament as the pull in coil within the solenoid envelope. Think of the low beam filament as the hold coil within the solenoid envelope.

Wiring schematics and illustrations can be misleading and are not as clear as if you had a component on the work bench.

Dave

 

[Henro]

Henro

Please look closely at the attached headlight wiring. This is an exact parallel to the engine stop solenoid.

The headlight bulb has two filaments within one glass envelope. The filaments are actually coils of wire which glow when current flows through them.

One filament is rated for 60 watts which is the high beam. The other filament is rated for 55 watts which is the low beam.

Both filaments share the same ground path but each has its own power wire.

Think of the high beam filament as the pull in coil within the solenoid envelope. Think of the low beam filament as the hold coil within the solenoid envelope.

Wiring schematics and illustrations can be misleading and are not as clear as if you had a component on the work bench.

Dave

Dave,

Take another look at the second drawing you posted. It is NOT the same as the light circuit.

It would be the same if the green and blue wires were connected together in your light circuit example.

But then both light filaments would either be on or off. That is my point.

I am not disputing the fact that the actual operation of the circuit in question is likely as described. Just pointing out that the schematic diagram is in error, in case anyone should be interested.

I specifically pointed out why. If someone can look at the first schematic and specifically point out how the wire connected to both sides of the left solenoid coil is not shown as I described I would appreciate it, as would others who read this thread later.

OR how as in the second drawing the two coils connected together top and bottom could operate independently...

I do know that drawing conventions do differ between disciplines. But this really seems pretty straight forward.

 

[Henro]

The Positive wires are separated, the only common is the ground which is done through the base, there is no actual ground wire,
The HOLD circuit is energized from the key switch, the PULL circuit is powered from the starter solenoid being engaged.

As I mentioned in my post responding to Dave, I don’t dispute the real world connections are indeed different than the drawing. The circuit would not work as described otherwise.

I was just pointing out that the drawing was in error.

Perhaps only a point important to detail guys like me...

Almost regret mentioning it now...

 

[Heddenonin]

Thanks for everyone's help. So, an update. I was able to remove the solenoid. I replaced it with a new solenoid. When I started the Kubota to test, the engine started 'racing'. It was running at a very high rpm. So, I turned the ignition off. The tractor did not shutdown. So, I had to shut down by closing the air-intake.

So, in replacing the solenoid, I disconnected the throttle control rod that connects to the carb. No adjustment was made to the rod. I simply took out the retaining pin and lowered it. After the solenoid was replaced, I reattached the throttle control rod.

I'm not sure why the crazy high rpm? Anyone have any suggestions?

Also, it is apparent that the new solenoid isn't working. What is my next step?

Thanks again.
Heddenonin

 

[whitetiger]

Remove the shutoff solenoid from the injection pump. Start the engine and see that it will idle and can be controlled with the throttle lever. To shut it off, there is a second lever next to the one your rod connects to, move it by hand. That is the manual fuel shut off lever.
If it idles and revs up as it should, the shut-off solenoid was inserted into the pump at an angle or you bought an "I think it will work" off eBay.

If you have the correct shut-off, reinsert it into the pump straight and hold it tight to the housing while starting and screwing in the outside bolt, lightly snug but do not tighten the bolt. This will keep the solenoid from getting out of place while you install the inside bolt, snug them both.
Start it up, should now work correctly. By the way, Been There, Done That.

 

[Apod]

Thanks for everyone's help. So, an update. I was able to remove the solenoid. I replaced it with a new solenoid. When I started the Kubota to test, the engine started 'racing'. It was running at a very high rpm. So, I turned the ignition off. The tractor did not shutdown. So, I had to shut down by closing the air-intake.

So, in replacing the solenoid, I disconnected the throttle control rod that connects to the carb. No adjustment was made to the rod. I simply took out the retaining pin and lowered it. After the solenoid was replaced, I reattached the throttle control rod.

I'm not sure why the crazy high rpm? Anyone have any suggestions?

Also, it is apparent that the new solenoid isn't working. What is my next step?

Thanks again.
Heddenonin

Carb? Get yourself a WSM/Kubota B2910 manual. Is a must for us Shade tree mechanics. 2 sections, Fuel and electrical, See Mechanism & Service in each section. Note Testing. In your case, understanding Stop Solenoid, It's interaction with Fuel Rack would have helped with troubleshooting & Diagnosing problem. From your initial description, I'm thinking you never had problem with Stop Solenoid. We all been there. Stared with one problem and compounded troubleshooting by creating another. You get that stop Solenoid back in correct, you need to have serious look at your Main Switch (Ignition Switch) per WSM B2910 manual. Easy to test with VOM and test leads

 

[Apod]

Carb? Get yourself a WSM/Kubota B2910 manual. Is a must for us Shade tree mechanics. 2 sections, Fuel and electrical, See Mechanism & Service in each section. Note Testing. In your case, understanding Stop Solenoid, It's interaction with Fuel Rack would have helped with troubleshooting & Diagnosing problem. From your initial description, I'm thinking you never had problem with Stop Solenoid. We all been there. Stared with one problem and compounded troubleshooting by creating another. You get that stop Solenoid back in correct, you need to have serious look at your Main Switch (Ignition Switch) per WSM B2910 manual. Easy to test with VOM and test leads

BTW, for this task as well as future electrical issues, would behoove you to make up two test leads with male spade electrical connection two ends and female connectors on other two ends. I would strongly recommend shrink tubing on all 4 crimped or soldered connectors.