Hydraulic options

[Paul Allwood]

My tractor is a B7200HSTD with a homemade FEL running off the original standard hydraulic pump. Specified hydraulic flow is 4 gpm (15 l/min). With this pump I'm happy with the operating speed of the loader.

I also have a mid-mount finish mower that currently runs from the mid PTO. I'm going to change to a 3 point finish mower so the mid PTO will become available.

Future hydraulic-related plans include:
- Hydraulic steering
- Removable backhoe

I was going to add a pump to the front to run off the crankshaft to run the power steering.

Since then the mid PTO has become available and I've decided to add a backhoe, so maybe this is no longer the best option.

I'm interested in suggestions for what's a good future hydraulics setup.

What's the best use of the existing standard pump ?

What new pump could be added and where ?

It's there a suitable hydraulic schematic somewhere that shows how I should setup the backhoe ?

This obviously won't all happen tomorrow, but thought it might be best to make changes now that lead to a good looking term outcome.

I know this is a lot of stuff and a lot of questions. All help will be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks as usual.

 

[mikester]

The front

Another option is to use the money you’d spend for upgrading on buying a second SCUT

 

[TheOldHokie]

My tractor is a B7200HSTD with a homemade FEL running off the original standard hydraulic pump. Specified hydraulic flow is 4 gpm (15 l/min). With this pump I'm happy with the operating speed of the loader.

I also have a mid-mount finish mower that currently runs from the mid PTO. I'm going to change to a 3 point finish mower so the mid PTO will become available.

Future hydraulic-related plans include:
- Hydraulic steering
- Removable backhoe

I was going to add a pump to the front to run off the crankshaft to run the power steering.

Since then the mid PTO has become available and I've decided to add a backhoe, so maybe this is no longer the best option.

I'm interested in suggestions for what's a good future hydraulics setup.

What's the best use of the existing standard pump ?

What new pump could be added and where ?

It's there a suitable hydraulic schematic somewhere that shows how I should setup the backhoe ?

This obviously won't all happen tomorrow, but thought it might be best to make changes now that lead to a good looking term outcome.

I know this is a lot of stuff and a lot of questions. All help will be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks as usual.

If adding a pump front mount all the way. That will also require an additional reservoir and will be independent of tractor hydraulics. You will choose pump size and pressure.

If using the tractor hydraulics the backhoe valve is daisy chained off the loader valve. Your backhoe will have the same 4 GPM flow and pressure as the loader. This is how the vast majority of Kubota OEM hoes are plumbed.

Dan

 

[Paul Allwood]

If adding a pump front mount all the way. That will also require an additional reservoir and will be independent of tractor hydraulics. You will choose pump size and pressure.

If using the tractor hydraulics the backhoe valve is daisy chained off the loader valve. Your backhoe will have the same 4 GPM flow and pressure as the loader. This is how the vast majority of Kubota OEM hoes are plumbed.

Dan

Thanks Dan.

Does daisy chained mean:
- Hydraulic block pressure port (right on my B7200) to supply of valve 1,
- Valve 1 power beyond to supply of valve 2,
- Valve 2 power beyond back to hydraulic block 3 point supply port (left) ?

Each valve will also need it's own tank return.

Quick couplers will be needed in the right spots to allow either valve to be removed with the circuit maintained, and to allow the valve tank return lines to be disconnected.

If this is right, which is normally valve 1 and 2, the loader or backhoe valve ? If it's wrong, what have I messed up ?

 

[TheOldHokie]

Thanks Dan.

Does daisy chained mean:
- Hydraulic block pressure port (right on my B7200) to supply of valve 1,
- Valve 1 power beyond to supply of valve 2,
- Valve 2 power beyond back to hydraulic block 3 point supply port (left) ?

Each valve will also need it's own tank return

Quick couplers will be needed in the right spots to allow either valve to be removed with the circuit maintained, and to allow the valve tank return lines to be disconnected.

If this is right, which is normally valve 1 and 2, the loader or backhoe valve ? If it's wrong, what have I messed up ?

Kubota puts the backhoe last and they do not use a PB valve

The logic is the 3pt and backhoe are mutually exclusive so they do not need high pressure carry over on the backhoe valve. The tank port goes to the power beyond return port on t hydraulic block which is effectively tank because the 3pt is disabled.

The loader re-plumbing goes like this:

1. Completely remove loader power beyond hose.
2. Run a new hose from loader power beyond port to rear of tractor. Put a female quick connect on the end.
3. Run a new hose from rear of tractor back to power beyond port on outket block. Put a male quick connect on the rear end of that hose and plug it into the female coupler

Thats the power beyond loop for the backhoe. When the backhoe is mounted you disconnect the tractir side couplers and reconnect them to the two backhoe hoses. When the backhoe is removed you disconnct the backhoe hoses and loop the tractor side hoses together.

Dan

 

[Russell King]

Assuming you will remove the backhoe sometimes the connections to the backhoe valve will need to be hooked together forming the same loop as if through the valve (P to PB then PB to tractor).

That being neglected causes a lot of posts about tractor not working properly.

Added on edit: this is redundant due to post #5 which was added as I was posting this

 

[Paul Allwood]

Kubota puts the backhoe last and they do not use a PB valve

The logic is the 3pt and backhoe are mutually exclusive so they do not need high pressure carry over on the backhoe valve. The tank port goes to the power beyond return port on t hydraulic block which is effectively tank because the 3pt is disabled.

The loader re-plumbing goes like this:

1. Completely remove loader power beyond hose.
2. Run a new hose from loader power beyond port to rear of tractor. Put a female quick connect on the end.
3. Run a new hose from rear of tractor back to power beyond port on outket block. Put a male quick connect on the rear end of that hose and plug it into the female coupler

Thats the power beyond loop for the backhoe. When the backhoe is mounted you disconnect the tractir side couplers and reconnect them to the two backhoe hoses. When the backhoe is removed you disconnct the backhoe hoses and loop the tractor side hoses together.

Dan

I was way off. Makes sense about not needing the 3 point and backhoe at the same time.

Here's a sketch - am I close ?

 

[Paul Allwood]

Assuming you will remove the backhoe sometimes the connections to the backhoe valve will need to be hooked together forming the same loop as if through the valve (P to PB then PB to tractor).

That being neglected causes a lot of posts about tractor not working properly.

Thanks Russell. Correct, the backhoe will be removed sometimes.

 

[Hugo Habicht]

Thanks Russell. Correct, the backhoe will be removed sometimes.

That is what you think now.
Once you have a backhoe, you will use it on a daily basis

 

[TheOldHokie]

I was way off. Makes sense about not needing the 3 point and backhoe at the same time.

Here's a sketch - am I close ? View attachment 173741

That's correct. You can also use the backhoe outlets for any implement that has its own control valve and needs a continuous flow - e.g. the much maligned 3pt log splitter

Dan

 

[Paul Allwood]

That's correct. You can also use the backhoe outlets for any implement that has its own control valve and needs a continuous flow - e.g. the much maligned 3pt log splitter

Dan

Many thanks again Dan. I won't be needing a maligned log splitter - I built a gas powered hydraulic splitter 15 odd years ago that still works well.

Something I hadn't thought of is a hydraulic top link. Could I run it with an electrically operated single spool valve with backhoe hoses connected to the P and PB ports ? When I modify my loader I think I'll have a spare cylinder that might suit for this.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Many thanks again Dan. I won't be needing a maligned log splitter - I built a gas powered hydraulic splitter 15 odd years ago that still works well.

Something I hadn't thought of is a hydraulic top link. Could I run it with an electrically operated single spool valve with backhoe hoses connected to the P and PB ports ? When I modify my loader I think I'll have a spare cylinder that might suit for this.

You can daisy chain valves ad nauseum. To add rear remotes the control valves get added between the loader valve and the hoe outlet.

If you use electric valves the loader N port goes to inlet port on electric valve and the outlet port on the electric valve goes to hoe outlet coupler.

If you use manual valves with PB the loader N port goes to P on the AUX valve. the N port on the AUX vakve goes to hoe outlet coupler, and the T port on the AUX valve tees into the loader T return or any other sump connection.

For rear remotes I think you will find a 2 or 3 spool manual valve is a less expensive choice.with better control of the cylinders. A 2 spool version of your loader valve is only $180 USD. Set it on the right fender and off you go.

Dan

 

[Paul Allwood]

You can daisy chain valves ad nauseum. To add rear remotes the control valves get added between the loader valve and the hoe outlet.

If you use electric valves the loader N port goes to inlet port on electric valve and the outlet port on the electric valve goes to hoe outlet coupler.

If you use manual valves with PB the loader N port goes to P on the AUX valve. the N port on the AUX vakve goes to hoe outlet coupler, and the T port on the AUX valve tees into the loader T return or any other sump connection.

For rear remotes I think you will find a 2 or 3 spool manual valve is a less expensive choice.with better control of the cylinders. A 2 spool version of your loader valve is only $180 USD. Set it on the right fender and off you go.

Dan

Thanks Dan.

The manual valve sounds better for the better control.

So if I mounted a 2 or 3 spool manual valve on the fender:
- I'd have one spool connected to the hydraulic top link, and
- A male and a female quick connect from the hoses from each of the second and third spools mounted at the back ready to connect whatever else might need hydraulics ?

I'll have a go at adding this to the sketch tomorrow.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Thanks Dan.

The manual valve sounds better for the better control.

So if I mounted a 2 or 3 spool manual valve on the fender:
- I'd have one spool connected to the hydraulic top link, and
- A male and a female quick connect from the hoses from each of the second and third spools mounted at the back ready to connect whatever else might need hydraulics ?

I'll have a go at adding this to the sketch tomorrow.

Rear remote outlets are typically 1/2" female. I am a fan of panel mounting using couplers with double acting sleeves. That gives you breakaway protection and one hand push/pull connect and disconnect operation. Its also neat and professional looking. Something like this should be childs play for you. Also a convenient place for your backhoe connections. The Red/Blue set on the left are constant flow for my log splitter.

Dan

 

[TheOldHokie]

Here is a later version using a different style coupler and a top link.

Dan

 

[Paul Allwood]

@TheOldHokie G'day Dan - I've had a go at updating my sketch to include a 3-spool manual valve mounted on the right fender to supply rear remotes. Does this look ok ?

I agree that panel mounting the remote quick connects makes it neat and also easy to use.

Is there a reason for all female quick connects for remotes ? Before you said that I would have guessed that a male and female for each pair would have made more sense.



Since I'm thinking I'll add a manual valve for 3 rear remotes, I'm wondering if the best option might be to:
- Move the current manual 3 spool loader valve to the right fender
- For a standard joystick loader valve such as this one from Summit Hydraulics https://summit-hydraulics.com/produ...pm/?attribute_float-option=Single+Spool+Float
- Add a 3rd function for a grapple such as this one from Summit Hydraulics https://summit-hydraulics.com/product/hydraulic-third-function-valve-kit-w-joystick-handle-for-tractor-loader-13-gpm/?attribute_quick-couplers=1/2"+Agricultural
- Use a standard backhoe valve such as this one from Summit Hydraulics https://summit-hydraulics.com/produ...l-control-valve-w-2-joysticks-6-spool-11-gpm/

The loader valve and 3rd function kit is something that you suggested some time ago. This would give me one float spool on the rear remotes which would be good for a hydraulic top link.

Thoughts ?

 

[McMXi]

Rear remote outlets are typically 1/2" female. I am a fan of panel mounting using couplers with double acting sleeves. That gives you breakaway protection and one hand push/pull connect and disconnect operation. Its also neat and professional looking.

I like neat and professional looking too but prefer the Ag style couplers, in addition to the look of an Ag tractor.

 

[Paul Allwood]

I like neat and professional looking too but prefer the Ag style couplers, in addition to the look of an Ag tractor.

View attachment 173899

Excuse my ignorance, what am I looking at ?

What is the block with what looks like 4 solenoids on top (circled in red) ?

What are the bits circled in yellow with the houses connected ?

 

[McMXi]

Excuse my ignorance, what am I looking at ?

What is the block with what looks like 4 solenoids on top (circled in red) ?

What are the bits circled in yellow with the houses connected ?

View attachment 173904

The rear remote valve stack that you circled in yellow are the standard set up. The tractor came with two pairs (SCD and FD) and I added a third pair (FD). I no longer need to disconnect those hoses since one pair runs the top link cylinder, one pair the side link cylinder, and the third pair feeds the Summit Hydraulics 4X multiplier.

The Summit Hydraulics 4X multiplier circled in red has four pairs of remotes that are all controlled via a Scorpion control grip on the #1 valve (lever in cab closest to the front of the tractor). Hold a button down to select one of the pairs, then move the lever as needed to achieve whatever function is desired. I went this route to control four cylinders on the Buhler/Farm King rear blade while still allowing me to control the top link and side link. I have a three-button version in the MX which is great for controlling the snow blower or flail mower. I don't need to move my hand back and forth between levers for various implements.

 

[Paul Allwood]

The rear remote valve stack that you circled in yellow are the standard set up. The tractor came with two pairs (SCD and FD) and I added a third pair (FD). I no longer need to disconnect those hoses since one pair runs the top link cylinder, one pair the side link cylinder, and the third pair feeds the Summit Hydraulics 4X multiplier.

The Summit Hydraulics 4X multiplier circled in red has four pairs of remotes that are all controlled via a Scorpion control grip on the #1 valve (lever in cab closest to the front of the tractor). Hold a button down to select one of the pairs, then move the lever as needed to achieve whatever function is desired. I went this route to control four cylinders on the Buhler/Farm King rear blade while still allowing me to control the top link and side link. I have a three-button version in the MX which is great for controlling the snow blower or flail mower. I don't need to move my hand back and forth between levers for various implements.

View attachment 173908

Thanks. When would you choose to connect to the SCD or FD (I had to Google what these stood for) pairs ?